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Author Topic: Scott Walker, Union Buster  (Read 26802 times)

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Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #450 on: March 31, 2011, 02:26:32 PM »
I feel bad, because like I have said before I look on myself as a moderate republican. As such I'm used to being ignored by the local party officials, who have their heads up the extreme factions asses. The Tea-Party types have changed radically and are showing the corporate backers quite a bit now.

I fail to see how GUTTING our education system could be beneficial. EVERYTHING on both sides of the party divide seems to be focused on the bottom line and pandering to the immediate result.

Bottom line..we need to look into returning to regulating some industries we have deregulated. We need to revamp the special interest/lobby influence on our officials. We need to accept that we need to have taxes, and cutting them and giving 'stimulus' kick backs won't help us in the long run.

I hate to say it, but we all need to pay taxes.

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #451 on: March 31, 2011, 02:43:24 PM »
agreed, it will come with time, but we have to keep on it or it will just get worse first.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #452 on: March 31, 2011, 03:56:48 PM »
I feel bad, because like I have said before I look on myself as a moderate republican. As such I'm used to being ignored by the local party officials, who have their heads up the extreme factions asses. The Tea-Party types have changed radically and are showing the corporate backers quite a bit now.

I fail to see how GUTTING our education system could be beneficial. EVERYTHING on both sides of the party divide seems to be focused on the bottom line and pandering to the immediate result.

Bottom line..we need to look into returning to regulating some industries we have deregulated. We need to revamp the special interest/lobby influence on our officials. We need to accept that we need to have taxes, and cutting them and giving 'stimulus' kick backs won't help us in the long run.

I hate to say it, but we all need to pay taxes.

The Republicans have really gotten a bad rap for this - but it's because of those extreme factions.  I rather hope that those factions (on both sides, actually) represent more of a 'noisy minority', and that the moderates that have been quiet for so long step up to be counted.

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #453 on: April 03, 2011, 12:36:51 PM »
moderates still make up most of both sides, but with politics the way they are the fringes are screeching louder than normal because the prez tends to be a moderate democrat most of the time.
the republican fringes (I call them Tea Baggers because they've fallen into bed with corprate intersts. ;D ) are perticularly loud because he's a moderate DEMOCRAT.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #454 on: April 03, 2011, 01:18:20 PM »
moderates still make up most of both sides, but with politics the way they are the fringes are screeching louder than normal because the prez tends to be a moderate democrat most of the time.
the republican fringes (I call them Tea Baggers because they've fallen into bed with corporate interests. ;D ) are particularly loud because he's a moderate DEMOCRAT.

The problem is.. neither side wants to admit the simple truth. We HAVE to stop cutting taxes. That means no more kickbacks (sorry.. 'Stimulus'), and accepting that we need to cut the breaks on estate and middle class taxes. The rich have to accept that they need to do more. That being said, and POSSIBLY being seen as contrary, we also need to reform our corporate tax system. The corporate tax rate is the highest in the industrial world, that needs to change. Some of the corporate tax holes need to be fixed. Seriously. There were a LOT of tax breaks that did work but were killed off in the 70s.. Research and Development would be nice. A lot of the basic technology that helped to develop the microprocessor was paid for by corporate R&D that was allowed to be done in the 50s -60s that would never have been feasible today.
No profit in it. (within a decade) A good example is the laser (which is in every CD, DVD and Blu-Ray drive) which was developed by Hughes Research in the 1960s.


Offline Serephino

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #455 on: April 03, 2011, 06:28:26 PM »
The hell of it is I kind of remember reading somewhere on here that most of the wealthy said they were fine with the Bush tax cuts for the top earners being left to die.  The ones that cared were the ones that got cozy with a Congressman.  Had the Republicans not thrown a hissy fit and held Unemployment hostage to get that one renewed with the rest, the Government would probably have a lot more money coming in that they could use for the things they are trying to cut.

When these tax breaks were first introduced one of my teachers did the math.  He made about 14k a year, and the tax cuts saved him about 13 cents.  Bill Gates (the richest person in the world at the time i think) saved about 11 million....  The problem here is greed.   

Offline Zakharra

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #456 on: April 03, 2011, 09:30:45 PM »
When these tax breaks were first introduced one of my teachers did the math.  He made about 14k a year, and the tax cuts saved him about 13 cents.  Bill Gates (the richest person in the world at the time i think) saved about 11 million....  The problem here is greed.   

 Bill Gates also makes a hell of a lot more than $14,000 a year too.

Offline Vekseid

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #457 on: April 03, 2011, 09:36:34 PM »
Bill Gates also makes a hell of a lot more than $14,000 a year too.

From wages, he only made $700k or so a year.

The rest is capital gains from his steady sales of Microsoft stock, interest, and stock dividends - non-earned and rentier income.  Though you might argue that he built the company so that should be okay, that is not true for the majority of people benefiting from these cuts.

Offline itsbeenfun2000

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #458 on: April 03, 2011, 10:39:29 PM »
Let's remember Gate's would pay more but he does give a large amount to charity.



Offline Vekseid

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #459 on: April 04, 2011, 01:05:34 AM »
Gates, sure.

Most of the people who built their own companies from the ground up are impressive philanthropists. Gates, Buffet, etc. The big ones are known for being ruthless, but that's different from being evil.

Compare the generosity of Bill Hewlett and David Packard to Carly Fiorina, for example.

I've long stood by the maxim that power does not corrupt - power attracts the corruptible. The wealthy who actually made this country great have had the tendency to give the most - and want to give the most. While the power-hungry leeches just want more power.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #460 on: April 04, 2011, 01:07:37 AM »
Gates and his wife drop enough into philanthropy every year to put a big dent in some small countries.

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #461 on: April 04, 2011, 09:35:16 AM »
i feel like i missed a lot politically being born in 1988.
my first introduction to politics was the clinton scandal... as it was for many my age.
I grew up in the political climate of the war on terror while my father has 40+ years of experience in political knowlage.
he's a moderate republican, and damn smart about it.
meanwhile I have democratic tendencies, I think part of it is Bush's actions and way of doing things in the white house biased almost everyone that grew up during his presidency against the republican party, I have rarely seen anyone under 35 at a republican rally and the younger generation avoids the tea party like the plauge. Nor anyone save my brother in law (he's from texas, die hard red state) in my age group that that doesn't view republicans with a cynical eye.
that's just me rambling I guess.
also I like that line.
Power does not corrupt, it attracts the corruptable

Offline Serephino

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #462 on: April 04, 2011, 04:17:32 PM »
Yep.  I'm registered Democrat because when I was registering someone told me to look at the policies of the people in office, and decide who I agreed with more.  Bush was in office, and I didn't want to touch that mess with a 10 foot pole.

And it doesn't help that there's something in the Republican kool aid that's caused those in office to loose their damned minds.  Most of my family is Republican, and many of them are considering switching sides.  If the Moderate Republicans don't soon toss out the fringe idiots, I don't think the party is going to be taken seriously much longer. 


Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #463 on: April 04, 2011, 05:52:52 PM »
I was in Madison this weekend.  This is one of the few times I've been down there when I haven't gone into the capitol building, and the very first time I didn't go in because I couldn't -- it's still just barely open to the public weekdays, and not at all on weekends.  And it was very sad.  :(

On the brighter side, the recall efforts against the Republican senators seem to be going very well.  They're doing a final count of the signatures to recall Randy Hopper, the aptly named GOP senator who recently left his wife to move in with his mistress (who used to lobby for the Koch brothers), but they expect to have enough to file.  Signatures have already been filed to recall Dan Kapanke, the Republican senator from La Crosse -- they sent in 145% of the required number, to allow for possible challenges from the GOP.  And the signatures aren't even due until 2 May.

And Walker's latest:

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquarter/119159584.html

Quote
Just in his mid-20s, Brian Deschane has no college degree, very little management experience and two drunken-driving convictions.

Yet he has landed an $81,500-per-year job in Gov. Scott Walker's administration overseeing environmental and regulatory matters and dozens of employees at the Department of Commerce. Even though Walker says the state is broke and public employees are overpaid, Deschane already has earned a promotion and a 26% pay raise in just two months with the state.

How did Deschane score his plum assignment with the Walker team?

It's all in the family.

His father is Jerry Deschane, executive vice president and longtime lobbyist for the Madison-based Wisconsin Builders Association, which bet big on Walker during last year's governor's race.

Total donations: $121,652.
The company was one of Walker's top five donors.  In response, Assembly Minority Leader Peter Barca is calling on the legislature "to halt any expansion of political appointments, no-bid contracts or gubernatorial power over rule-making in the future."

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #464 on: April 04, 2011, 08:35:43 PM »
I lived in Wisconsin for a spell when a tween they do have a long run of Republicans in office but most seemed to me in the past centrist right leaning like Governor Thompson who was generally well-liked, they are clearly voting in the radicals now.

And why recall you should have had people vote properly the first time now you folks don't like the party members in power you want them out, the same as in Florida. Voting matters and those people that opted not to vote at all and now bitch and bitch sicken me more.

People need to learn voting matters and if you don't vote at all you don't matter and let others decide who makes the decisions. We have a duty as citizens to be informed on the issues, have an opinion and position on what issues matter to each of us and vote as well as make these known to those running or elected to office. That in the end is our highest civic duty as a citizen of a nation. And then if they fail to vote for people that do best represent our values.

Offline itsbeenfun2000

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #465 on: April 04, 2011, 08:37:20 PM »
Yep.  I'm registered Democrat because when I was registering someone told me to look at the policies of the people in office, and decide who I agreed with more.  Bush was in office, and I didn't want to touch that mess with a 10 foot pole.

And it doesn't help that there's something in the Republican kool aid that's caused those in office to loose their damned minds.  Most of my family is Republican, and many of them are considering switching sides.  If the Moderate Republicans don't soon toss out the fringe idiots, I don't think the party is going to be taken seriously much longer. 



I think I have said it in this string before but I will put it up here again. When people ask "I thought you were a Republican" I simply answer and I stole it from somewhere "I never left the Republican party it left me."  The moderates have long been left back I think the only thing left in the Republican party is the fringe.

Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #466 on: April 04, 2011, 09:03:55 PM »
And why recall you should have had people vote properly the first time now you folks don't like the party members in power you want them out, the same as in Florida. Voting matters and those people that opted not to vote at all and now bitch and bitch sicken me more.

People need to learn voting matters and if you don't vote at all you don't matter and let others decide who makes the decisions. We have a duty as citizens to be informed on the issues, have an opinion and position on what issues matter to each of us and vote as well as make these known to those running or elected to office. That in the end is our highest civic duty as a citizen of a nation. And then if they fail to vote for people that do best represent our values.
It's kind of hard to "vote properly" when candidates like Walker blatantly lie their way into office.

Other attempts to get the Republicans in power to listen -- and by that, in this case, I mean mostly Walker and the Fitzgeralds, who are running the show -- have failed.

These recalls are a last resort, and they should be a last resort.  There's a reason why the requirements are stiff.  The mere fact that we're managing to collect enough signatures for recall elections is an indication of the importance and depth of the issues at hand, and uninformed/apathetic voters were only a small part of the problem.

The biggest problem is really that the extreme Republicans are playing the party loyalty card and the moderate Republicans are following blindly, with only a few exceptions.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #467 on: April 04, 2011, 09:11:10 PM »
I lived in Wisconsin for a spell when a tween they do have a long run of Republicans in office but most seemed to me in the past centrist right leaning like Governor Thompson who was generally well-liked, they are clearly voting in the radicals now.

And why recall you should have had people vote properly the first time now you folks don't like the party members in power you want them out, the same as in Florida. Voting matters and those people that opted not to vote at all and now bitch and bitch sicken me more.

People need to learn voting matters and if you don't vote at all you don't matter and let others decide who makes the decisions. We have a duty as citizens to be informed on the issues, have an opinion and position on what issues matter to each of us and vote as well as make these known to those running or elected to office. That in the end is our highest civic duty as a citizen of a nation. And then if they fail to vote for people that do best represent our values.

I agree Ruby.. I picked up that outlook reading 'Starship Troopers' when I was like 9. However, the recall process is valuable too in that it tells those we elect that if you think you can lie to the voters (active or not) to the point that they can get enough folks to throw together enough signatures to push for a recall that tells you that you're not reflecting the will of the people who elected you.

Recalls are hard, and most often fail, so to see this many in one area would tell me that the public isn't happy with the policies being pursued. That would tell the party that republicans that just because the Tea Party folks are loud, they aren't the ONLY people out there. Selling off utilities, cutting collective bargaining and gutting all those programs and crippling the municipalities ability to compensate tell me that there is some discontent.

Honestly, from what I see, party leadership should have spoken with Gov Walker WEEKS ago. Had he agreed to talk to folks, and discuss issues they could have seized the high ground. Bulldozing over the opposition this badly was counterproductive to the party.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #468 on: April 04, 2011, 10:26:33 PM »
Politicians LIE that is their job sometimes either for good or evil, but show me one higher political tier one that is not in some way out for their own interests in some way. And how many of these people now asking for a recall never bothered to vote?

Like I said folks if you don't vote, are not an informed voter that lets your position be known and this includes keeping elected officials informed of your wishes and you vote for those that meet your wishes.

Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #469 on: April 05, 2011, 08:25:44 AM »
Today's the big election day in Wisconsin -- actually, it's usually a small election day, but then, I'm one of those weird people who votes in pretty much every election I can.

https://vpa.wi.gov/  <-- Lots of helpful voter information, such as polling places, hours of operation, etc.  Most places in Wisconsin are open from 7:00 am to 8:00 pm.  Also, Union Cab and Badger Cab are offering free rides to polling places.

Supreme Court elections are usually yawners, but not this time, of course.  The candidates themselves aren't advertising any more than usual, really -- they campaign on public funds as a rule, which means no contributions from individuals or companies and therefore not a lot of spare cash -- but the third party ads have been crazy.  My favorite is the one that attacks Kloppenburg (an assistant state attorney general) for being both a state employee (*gasp!*) and without judicial experience... which is exactly where Prosser's career stood when he was first elected to the Supreme Court.  :P

In mid-March, Prosser was still running ads saying that he intended to be a "complement" to Walker because his views "closely mirror" the governor's.  I'm wondering if he wishes he could take that all back now.  He hasn't run those ads recently, that's for sure.

This website has more detailed information about Prosser's voting record, how often he's sided with Walker (about 95% of the time), etc.

And the Tea Party is supporting Prosser -- no surprise there.   :P

The court currently sits at a 4-3 ratio in favor of the more conservative justices.  And since Walker's bill is certain to come before the Supreme Court for a ruling on its legality, the composition of the court has suddenly turned incredibly important.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/03/962493/-Whats-at-stake-in-the-Wisconsin-Supreme-Court-race

Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #470 on: April 05, 2011, 02:34:38 PM »
Pardon the double post, but I couldn't resist this transcript from Prosser's appearance on On the Record last night:

Quote
VAN SUSTEREN: But on February 10th, there was an incident in which the court of which you are a member privately discussing a request to remove a justice particular from a case. And in a fit of temper, you screamed at the chief justice, Shirley Abrahamson, that she is a bitch and threatening to destroy her.
Now, there is no record of this on February 10th. February 18th, another justice, a woman justice named Justice Ann Walsh Bradley, she sends an e-mail around, confirming that fit of temper that you had, in which you called her a bitch and threatened to destroy her -- sent it not just to you but to others, and then she later released it to the newspaper.

What in the world is going on in the Wisconsin supreme court that you're saying that kind of stuff to each other and snitching on each other and giving e-mails out and disclosing the private conversations of the state supreme court? What is going on?

PROSSER: Well, there's a lot to try to untangle there. We're talking about an incident that occurred more than a year ago. We're talking about something where multiple controversies came to a head at the same time. It was an explosive situation. I said something I should not have said and that I regret and that I apologized for.
....
So what you ought to know, Greta, is that this was in February 2010. I think seven or eight days after the incident, there is a memorialization of a conversation. It is not an accurate memorialization of the total events that occurred. And then...

VAN SUSTEREN: I should just add -- I should just add at that point, Justice -- at that point, I think they were trying to trap you. I mean, I'm not trying to defend you for calling a supreme court justice a bitch, but the fact that they put it -- memorialized it meant they were setting a trap on you on that one.

PROSSER: They were not only setting a trap, they were kind of massaging the record and changing the record. I have to tell you, it was not good behavior on my part. But I have to say this is not all my fault. There was some provocation here, the whole series of incidents that led up to an explosion.
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/on-the-record/transcript/all-eyes-wisconsin-supreme-court-election-could-become-key-collective-bargaining-law

Because it's okay to call someone a bitch, but not to tell anybody about it later...?

Offline Will

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #471 on: April 05, 2011, 02:39:27 PM »
He called her a bitch, and said he was going to destroy her.  I'm really failing to find the wiggle room necessary for this "massaging and changing" of the record.  That's not misinterpreting language, taking things out of context... there is no context that makes that okay, is there?

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #472 on: April 05, 2011, 02:53:30 PM »
it says a lot about his persionality, I'm not saying he's not within his right to explode if he's overstressed and pissed off, if more politicans said what they actually felt, instead of putting on a visade it would be an better world.
regardless "That BITCH I'm going to DESTROY HER" is not something anyone should say.

to clarify, I'm not mad that he is opposed to her, or even let himself explode about it, but his words betray is underlying self.
petty
spiteful
reactionary

Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #473 on: April 05, 2011, 02:58:29 PM »
The trap theory is especially creative, I think.  Somehow those sneaky liberal justices forced him to say those awful things so they could harass him about it later.  It's all a plot!


Interestingly, several days ago, former (Democratic) Wisconsin Governor Patrick Lucey, who had been honorary co-chair of Prosser's re-election campaign, decided not only to resign, but to actively support Kloppenburg.  Lucey cited Prosser's "disturbing distemper and lack of civility that does not bode well for the High Court in the face of demands that are sure to be placed on it in these times of great political and legal volatility."  By contrast, he praised Kloppenburg's "promising judicial temperament and good grace, even in the heat of a fierce campaign."

I can't wait to see some election results.  I can't find any yet...

Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #474 on: April 05, 2011, 10:41:07 PM »
Two and a half hours after the polls have closed, the Supreme Court race is still too close to call.  However, over the last little while, I've been watching Prosser lose the small lead he had, and the latest is that Kloppenburg has pulled ahead.  With about 73% of the precincts reporting, percentages are 50-50, but Kloppenburg now has the lead by over 6,000 votes.

*crosses fingers*