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Author Topic: Abortion as grounds to 'Justifable Homicide'.  (Read 2207 times)

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Offline Kuroneko

Re: Abortion as grounds to 'Justifable Homicide'.
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2011, 10:15:45 AM »

Offline Oniya

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Re: Abortion as grounds to 'Justifable Homicide'.
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2011, 10:31:47 AM »
Full text from the Georgia legistlature:  http://www1.legis.ga.gov/legis/2009_10/fulltext/hb1.htm

No offense, but I find MotherJones to be one of those blogs that's a little too interested in freaking people out to be a good source - and I'm fairly liberal,

Having said that, the Georgia bill had a lot of things that had me staring at the screen in disgust


Quote
The General Assembly therefore makes the following findings of fact:

[...]

(3) Justice Blackmun, writing for the majority in Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973), wrote: 'when those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at any consensus, the judiciary, at this point in the development of man's knowledge, is not in a position to speculate as to the answer [to the question of when life begins].'
(4) The General Assembly knows the answer to that difficult question, and that answer is life begins at the moment of conception;

[...]

(26) The act of prenatal murder has caused a significant reduction in the number of citizens in this state that would serve as workers, entrepreneurs, teachers, employees, and employers that would have significantly contributed to the prosperity and continuation of this state;

Excuse me?!

Quote
SECTION 2.12.
Said title is further amended by repealing in its entirety Chapter 9A, the "Woman's Right to Know Act."

SECTION 2.13.
Said title is further amended by revising Code Section 31-10-1, relating to definitions relative to vital records, by deleting the words "product of human conception" and replacing them with "prenatal human person" in paragraphs (4), (9), and (15); by deleting the words "induced termination of pregnancy" and replacing them with "prenatal murder" in paragraphs (7) and (20); and by deleting the words "an induced termination of pregnancy" and replacing them with "a prenatal murder" in paragraph (15).

In further news, 'bad' has been replaced with 'ungood'.

Offline Kuroneko

Re: Abortion as grounds to 'Justifable Homicide'.
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2011, 10:38:50 AM »
None taken. 

I think that one of the most disturbing aspects of the bill is that it requries that all miscarriages be reported by hospitals or other medical institutions.  Whether you like Mother Jones or not, it doesn't change that this bill would criminalize more than abortion in GA if passed.  This is some pretty scary stuff, and it's just another instance in the huge assault on women's reproductive rights that's taking place right now.  It's also been reported in several other blogs and news sites, such as this one:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/22/georgia-anti-abortion-bill-would-require-investigations-of-miscarriages/#

Offline Trieste

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Re: Abortion as grounds to 'Justifable Homicide'.
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2011, 10:48:37 AM »
Full text from the Georgia legistlature:  http://www1.legis.ga.gov/legis/2009_10/fulltext/hb1.htm

No offense, but I find MotherJones to be one of those blogs that's a little too interested in freaking people out to be a good source - and I'm fairly liberal,

Having said that, the Georgia bill had a lot of things that had me staring at the screen in disgust


Excuse me?!

In further news, 'bad' has been replaced with 'ungood'.

What I find curious is the repeal of Women's Right to Know. That appears to be Georgia's version of "We will force you to listen to the heartbeat and wave the sonogram in front of you before you can get an abortion". In other words, it's generally an anti-choice attempt to humanize the fetus and discourage abortion. However, it also includes requirements for informed consent: abortion methods, medical risks, alternatives, etc. Things any responsible medical provider should be going over anyway, in other words.

Why would they want to repeal that?

Offline Oniya

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Re: Abortion as grounds to 'Justifable Homicide'.
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2011, 10:54:01 AM »
Probably because they want to make abortion itself illegal.  As a result, there's no reason to have the humanizing effort, because the option for ending the pregnancy wouldn't be available.

It's like, if you make cars illegal, there's no reason to require people to take a driver's ed class.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Abortion as grounds to 'Justifable Homicide'.
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2011, 11:01:26 AM »
It's also an attempt at taking advantage of the tendency of moms to blame themselves for their miscarriages. If only I'd done this, if only I hadn't done that. There's your self-incrimination right there. And by placing the burden of proof on the woman, the legislation is a violation of constitutional presumption of innocence. Any lawyer worth the paper their degree is printed on would contest it - and they would likely win.

Offline Jude

Re: Abortion as grounds to 'Justifable Homicide'.
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2011, 11:18:35 AM »
I am so bothered by clause (4) where the general assembly proclaims it knows when life begins.  The arrogance of ignorance is truly astounding.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Abortion as grounds to 'Justifable Homicide'.
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2011, 11:30:41 AM »
(4) was pretty bad.  (26) nearly made me spray tea.  Claiming that abortions and miscarriages deprive the state of workers sounds like something out of Huxley or Atwood.

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Re: Abortion as grounds to 'Justifable Homicide'.
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2011, 12:53:34 PM »
You could as easily claim that it reduced the number of potentail criminals and delinquents in the State, and hence was a good thing. Both statements are equally idiotic though.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Abortion as grounds to 'Justifable Homicide'.
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2011, 01:29:26 PM »
Exactly.  The same argument has been used by abortion opponents for years, but coding it into law sets a nasty precedent.  After all, birth control prevents pregnancies, which deprives the state of workers.  Many methods of non-barrier contraception (if not all) work by preventing implantation of the zygote.  By the 'beginning of life' definition in (4), and the doublespeak redefining in Section 2.13 these would be methods of 'prenatal murder.'

Offline Trieste

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Re: Abortion as grounds to 'Justifable Homicide'.
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2011, 01:35:01 PM »
>.>

* Trieste gets the Rusty Spork of Stabbing People Who Try to Legislate My Uterus ready, just in case the mania spreads northward.

Don't laugh; that stuff is catching!

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Abortion as grounds to 'Justifable Homicide'.
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2011, 01:40:32 PM »
I find the trends of legislating miscarriages and redefining life like this very distressing. It harkens to a 'fuck you' to anyone who wishes to have the idea of 'choice' or 'control of my body'. Are we going to see mandated medication for everyone next? You aren't happy enough citizen! Take these! You, Citizen, are TOO productive and thus must take these to maintain the status quo.

Offline Jude

Re: Abortion as grounds to 'Justifable Homicide'.
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2011, 01:56:03 PM »
I think it's OK to have an honest discussion about the consequences that abortion has on our society.  The problem is, it's difficult to build an argument which is logically sound that concludes the effects are anything but a net positive.

Abortion gives women a way to control their own future that they simply didn't have before it was legalized.  It's absolutely essential to our modern notions of women's rights.  Take it way and it'll be harder for women to have a career without sacrificing a healthy sex life in the process.  Women need that option as a "last resort" to live a balanced lifestyle with equal parity to the freedom that men naturally have as granted by our basic physiology.

It's also very important to poor families:  if you can't control your reproductive outcomes, it's a lot harder to ever acquire a measure of wealth.  There's a skewing of the numbers when it comes to abortion statistics towards low-income women for a reason.  These women or couples realize they don't have the means to effectively provide for their children, so they decide not to become parents.  Without that choice, we'd have a lot more unwanted children born into this world destined to become disadvantaged youth.  Abortion directly aids social mobility.

If South Dakota is so worried about having a larger population of workers, they should be lobbying for the relaxation immigration regulations so that more foreigners can come into the country to fill out our ranks.  That population explosion would be a great way to bolster our economy.

Edit:  Wroooong place name.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 02:06:47 PM by Jude »

Offline Oniya

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Re: Abortion as grounds to 'Justifable Homicide'.
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2011, 02:35:52 PM »
If South Dakota is so worried about having a larger population of workers, they should be lobbying for the relaxation immigration regulations so that more foreigners can come into the country to fill out our ranks.  That population explosion would be a great way to bolster our economy.

Edit:  Wroooong place name.

Georgia

Offline Serephino

Re: Abortion as grounds to 'Justifable Homicide'.
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2011, 08:17:34 PM »
This is all making me crazy.  It's like Conservatives want Womens' Rights to go back to the 19th century when their only option in life was to get married and stay barefoot and pregnant.  This is truly scary!  I forget what state it was, but one of them wanted to cut funds for preschool because mothers should be home with their kids anyway.  Preschools are a huge waste of money (not). 

I have always considered myself Pro-Life, but it's getting to a point where I'm afraid to admit it because then I'll get lumped in with these nutjobs.  This is definitely not what I want to see happen, and I can only hope it doesn't.   

Offline Trieste

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Re: Abortion as grounds to 'Justifable Homicide'.
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2011, 08:31:37 PM »

Offline Oniya

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Re: Abortion as grounds to 'Justifable Homicide'.
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2011, 08:35:09 PM »
I have a number of friends who are adamant about keeping any pregnancy that they are personally involved in (as either the father or mother), and would admittedly try to encourage female friends to do the same.  However, every one that I have mentioned this to has been universally appalled.  One even put it up on her Facebook page to spread awareness about it.

There's nothing wrong with being on either side of the abortion issue in your own personal life.  It's when these (as we both agree) nutjobs decide to legislate that stance for everybody that there's a problem.

Offline LadyDiscord

Re: Abortion as grounds to 'Justifable Homicide'.
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2011, 09:29:46 PM »
I can see it now.."Ah look it's my tax dollars coming to arrest me for diving into my own cooter.."

Yea, New World Oder is beast.