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Author Topic: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)  (Read 3684 times)

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Offline NicciKotorTopic starter

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2011, 12:35:51 PM »
I don't buy how a magic item enchantment that gives 3 continious effects to the wielder can be caster level 1. That's contradictory. Even if you have to be going at a foe susceptible to sneak attacks to make it work.

Offline ulthakptah

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2011, 12:43:31 PM »
Don't look at me I don't make the rules. I just abuse them to better suit my needs. As for it being caster level one, it's a first level spell, you only need to be caster level one to use it. If you made it into a wand/potion/scroll it would still only be spell level one, caster level one.

Offline NicciKotorTopic starter

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2011, 12:55:20 PM »
Don't look at me I don't make the rules. I just abuse them to better suit my needs. As for it being caster level one, it's a first level spell, you only need to be caster level one to use it. If you made it into a wand/potion/scroll it would still only be spell level one, caster level one.

And craft wondrous items requires caster level 3 to have. A first level wizard cannot make that item you want.

Offline ulthakptah

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2011, 05:18:46 PM »
And craft wondrous items requires caster level 3 to have. A first level wizard cannot make that item you want.
This is indeed true, but when creating an item a creator can create an item at a lower caster level than their own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. The lowest level is based on the spell needed not on the feat.

Quote from: Dungeon Master Guide page. 282-283
While item creation costs are handled in detail elsewhere, note
that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the
creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item. A creator
can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but
never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed
spell. For example, a 15th-level wizard could craft a wand of fireball
at 10th caster level, or even as low as 5th level (the minimum
caster level for fireball, a 3rd-level spell), but no lower. If she did
this, the fireball would in all ways be treated as if the caster was of
the lower specified level (for damage, range, and so on). Using
metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level
than normal. For example, a caster could heighten a spellís level to
increase its effectiveness, or quicken a spell to allow it to be used
as a free action, placing it within an item at the higher metamagic
level. See Chapter 5: Feats in the Playerís Handbook for more on
metamagic feats.
The same is true in pathfinder as well.
Quote from: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/item-creation-feats
Item Cost: Brew Potion, Craft Staff, Craft Wand, and Scribe Scroll  create items that directly reproduce spell effects, and the power of these items depends on their caster level-that is, a spell from such an item has the power it would have if cast by a spellcaster of that level. The price of these items (and thus the cost of the raw materials) also depends on the caster level. The caster level must be low enough that the spellcaster creating the item can cast the spell at that level. To find the final price in each case, multiply the caster level by the spell level, then multiply the result by a constant, as shown below:

Offline yesiroleplay

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2011, 05:35:03 PM »
An urban game cries for a bard!  And pathfinder bards actually don't suck!
maybe a circlet of persuasion as the freebie item?  It's awfully twinky, but completely within the flavor for bard and it actually made it into both the 3.5 and PF SRDs.

Offline NicciKotorTopic starter

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2011, 06:53:05 PM »
Could use more female players, so all the more to it. What is the specifications for that item?

Online Changingsaint

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2011, 06:56:55 PM »
Just wanted a quick checkup to see if my fighter looked valid, seems like it might have been missed with the ongoing magic item discussion.

Offline NicciKotorTopic starter

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2011, 07:28:11 PM »
My point still stands, there is no way a magic item that gives 3 continuous effects can be caster level 1. There is plenty of stupid things in the rules, and allowing something like this to happen is one of them.

Offline ulthakptah

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2011, 07:39:30 PM »
Yep, the enchantment has a caster level of 1 and cost EIGHT THOUSAND GOLD!!! If anything the low caster level is a bad thing because it makes it that much easier to dispel. What matters in the price.

Offline NicciKotorTopic starter

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2011, 08:00:41 PM »
8000 gp for a cast level 1 magic item is also ridiculous. Your money would be best invested in some spider climb slippers or another item that allows for greater urban movement.

Offline ulthakptah

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2011, 08:07:14 PM »
It's too powerful!
It's not worth its price!
Why don't you make up you mind?

Offline NicciKotorTopic starter

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2011, 08:11:41 PM »
It's about consistency. Caster level 1 magic items are suppose to be simple items with limited usability. What you are suggestion is hardly simple.


Offline ulthakptah

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2011, 08:19:37 PM »
If it makes you feel better the 8,000 gold CL 1 enchantment is on a 500 gold CL 5 magical item, so it actually has a CL of 5

Offline NicciKotorTopic starter

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2011, 08:26:47 PM »
Speaking of which, I am pretty sure there is a additional cost required to put an enchantment on a item that already has an enchantment. Yep, a 50% increase to put an enchantment on a enchanted item. Page 282 of the DMG goes into detail about this, in how a belt of +4 str and +4 dex is worth more then a belt of +4 str and gloves of +4 dex combined.

Since the belt takes up only one slot, compared to the belt+glove combo. It should cost more.

Offline ulthakptah

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2011, 08:40:39 PM »
Speaking of which, I am pretty sure there is a additional cost required to put an enchantment on a item that already has an enchantment. Yep, a 50% increase to put an enchantment on a enchanted item. Page 282 of the DMG goes into detail about this, in how a belt of +4 str and +4 dex is worth more then a belt of +4 str and gloves of +4 dex combined.

Since the belt takes up only one slot, compared to the belt+glove combo. It should cost more.
That's if the enchantments are different. I'm adding an enchantment that give an extra dice of sneak attack to an item called "the Chronocharm of the laughing rogue" that's pretty similar. However even if you say they are different it would only be 50% extra on the less costly ability. Making the total price 8,750 instead of 8,500.

Offline NicciKotorTopic starter

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2011, 08:45:34 PM »
The chronocharm came first, so it would be 12500 gp. Where does it say the lesser enchantment would be 50% increase?

Offline ulthakptah

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2011, 08:55:19 PM »
The paragraph above it saying how the discount works. Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus one-half the value of any other abilities. Then in the paragraph you quoted it says that instead of taking off, add 50% for each additional power. Ergo 8000+500*1.5=8750

Offline NicciKotorTopic starter

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2011, 09:00:20 PM »
That is for items that do not take up a body slot. Chronocharm is a necklace of sorts, so those rules do not apply.

Offline ulthakptah

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2011, 09:09:48 PM »
Um, you're wrong again. Both of those rules apply to the same thing applying multiple magic effects to the same item. The difference between them is whether the effect are similar or different. Hench why the paragraphs are titled Multiple Similar Abilities and Multiple Different Abilities respectively.

Offline NicciKotorTopic starter

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2011, 09:15:02 PM »
Your paragraph explicitly states items that do not take up a body slot. The 50% increase is for magic items that have more then one different abilities and are body slot items. Of which we have here. An the effects are different, one is sneak attack bonus's and the other is disable device rerolls. Quite different.

Offline ulthakptah

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2011, 09:27:38 PM »
Fine, but that doesn't change the order that the prices are affected. If you had a belt of +4 str and +2 dex, it would cost as much as a +4 str belt plus 1.5 time the cost of a +2 dex gloves. Not the other way around.

Offline NicciKotorTopic starter

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2011, 09:35:09 PM »
The critical strike spell isn't tied to the chronocharm, the disable device re roll is. The 8000 would be increased. The critical strike is clearly the additional power.

Offline ulthakptah

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2011, 09:51:00 PM »
Argh, no, the the way it's applied has to do with how much the each thing costs, like the way the discounts were applied. It works the same way as the other rule except that instead of taking off 25% then 50%, it adds 50% every time.

Offline NicciKotorTopic starter

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2011, 09:54:15 PM »
No where in that paragraph does it state that. It only says additional power gets the 50% added on. The additional power is clearly the critical strike spell.

Offline ulthakptah

Re: The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2011, 10:05:01 PM »
It's implied from the previous rule. Anyway I could just as easily say I put that critical strike spell on a charm necklace then added the Chronocharm of the laughing rogue effects to it.