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Author Topic: Enforcing the Laws when Dealing with Illegal Immigration is...  (Read 5685 times)

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Offline Nell

Re: Enforcing the Laws when Dealing with Illegal Immigration is...
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2007, 05:15:48 PM »
Yeah...I really respect someone who can do both of those at the same time, but that's unfortunately a rarity these days.

Offline Lana

Re: Enforcing the Laws when Dealing with Illegal Immigration is...
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2008, 01:30:18 AM »
Working in an immigration law office I generally tend to avoid these topics.  However, I will say that I am totally in favor of enforcing immigration laws and don't believe the laws are biased at all, the people enforcing them, however are another matter.  I have seen them enforced with many different ethnic groups.  I just worked on a case where a Canadian was removed back to Canada, they wouldn't let him stay and there was nothing we could do.  Its just a matter of what gets the media headlines. 

I also used to be an adamant supporter of the "but they are illegal and are breaking the law" arguement.  When I started doing immigration law I realized that life isn't as black and white as that statement.  I would sound like a hypocrite if I tried to sway anyone's opinion of illegal aliens but will say only that you can't really understand what truely happens in immigration until you learn and deal with it for yourself and don't trust everything the media feeds you.   :)

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Enforcing the Laws when Dealing with Illegal Immigration is...
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2008, 11:17:09 AM »
I don't get though why cities and towns setting up laws to monitor illegal immigrants last time I looked local law officers are required to serve and protect all the laws of the United States, isn't someone here without documentation here illegally therefore can be enforced at all levels. None of these laws determine their status or takes away anything just if your working or renting an apratment you must prove your here legally. Seems well within the rights of local governments.

I don't really get the problem immigrants to the crappy jobs no one in the country want to do generally so whats wrong with letting them come in if they can get here and work. It shouldn't be that hard have a central database and offer low cost work cards with photos and other features to anyone at any embassy abroad. They can then work here for lets say five years registering with the local government and working, they can renew these subject to being a respectable guest worker (not commit any crimes of note) and an employer can just check the identification number against a computer registry and then know they can work. And slap very big penalties for other undocumented workers. And states and the Federal Government can collect taxes and the like allowing them to pay their share to benefit living here and working.

In the case of dealing with terrorism these criminals could abuse the system but they could abuse any system, its no reason for not having a system that benefits the majority of good foreigners wanting to come here to work. Last time I looked people are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.

Offline Lana

Re: Enforcing the Laws when Dealing with Illegal Immigration is...
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2008, 06:23:22 PM »
I don't get though why cities and towns setting up laws to monitor illegal immigrants last time I looked local law officers are required to serve and protect all the laws of the United States, isn't someone here without documentation here illegally therefore can be enforced at all levels. None of these laws determine their status or takes away anything just if your working or renting an apratment you must prove your here legally. Seems well within the rights of local governments.


I don't really know why either, I have theories but they aren't educated theories on that matter.

I don't really get the problem immigrants to the crappy jobs no one in the country want to do generally so whats wrong with letting them come in if they can get here and work.

I never saw the point either, I always thought that they should have a way to adjust their status even if they originally entered illegally.  They would still have to pay for the green card proces the only difference is they never had to pay $131.00 (and when you are dirt poor living in Mexico that's -a lot- of money) for their original visa or border crossinf card to enter the U.S.  Back in the old days, those who entered illegally could eventually file for a green card if they met the normal requirements for such for a fee of $1000.00.  I know this sounds like a lot and it is, usually though after coming to this country and working a good portion of illegals (I won't say all because no one should ever lump everyone into one group) want to stay in this cuontry and become legal and find ways to pay for these fees now that they are living here and at least have a chance in life. *Whispers* They even file their income taxes.  I know I was shocked too when I first found out because it flew in the face of everything that I had ever been told. 

However, at some point America took on a different viewpoint of illegals and did away with the $1000.00 fee, one would think that the government would always want more money, so why do away with it?  Not sure other than perhaps maybe public opinion swayed their decision, I'm not sure on the why.

Quote
245(i) was first added to the law in 1994 to allow persons who qualify for green cards, but not for adjustment of status, to be able to adjust their status in the U.S. upon payment of a fine (currently $1,000). Congress phased 245(i) out of the law on January 14, 1998. However, persons who had already qualified under the law as of that date were "grandfathered" into the benefits of 245(i) for the rest of their lives. The problem was that hundreds of thousands of otherwise qualified persons who missed the January 14, 1998 deadline cannot adjust status in the U.S., and cannot return to their countries to obtain green cards without being subject to either a three or a ten-year bar from returning to the U.S.
  The deadline was subsequently extended by President Clinton to extend to April 30, 2001.

It shouldn't be that hard have a central database and offer low cost work cards with photos and other features to anyone at any embassy abroad. They can then work here for lets say five years registering with the local government and working, they can renew these subject to being a respectable guest worker (not commit any crimes of note) and an employer can just check the identification number against a computer registry and then know they can work. And slap very big penalties for other undocumented workers. And states and the Federal Government can collect taxes and the like allowing them to pay their share to benefit living here and working.


Well initially, I think the public and the media have to get over their ignorance regarding the matter otherwise it would never get off the ground and then lawmakers would actually have to think something like this up.  Third, it wouldn't be cheap, and the fees right now are going up all the time and there's no reason to suggest that the government would do toherwise in this matter.  I do believe in many intances that is the problem, that these people in Mexico that their only problem was being born in such an economically depressed and corrupt county can't afford the options that are available or aren't educated enough, etc.  There are many different reasons for why someone would risk everything and come over the border illegally. 

Also, with regards to employers desiring to bring someone from another country to the U.S. to work for them.  Depending on if they were sponsering them for a green card, well it can be very pricey and to file for a green card the employer has to be able to show that they can provide for the alien if the alien does not make enough money to support their household.  Depending on how many aliens a company desires to bring over this can be -very- pricey.  The filing fees for a full green card petition and application are $1365.00 and that doesn't count anything else that they may have to file for.  Also one snag with filing for a green card
is that they have to show proof that they were always in legal status while in the U.S. 

So basically, there are definetly some laws and obsticales to overcome.  ;)  The realist in me says it will never happen, however there is a part of me that holds out hope.  :)

In the case of dealing with terrorism these criminals could abuse the system but they could abuse any system, its no reason for not having a system that benefits the majority of good foreigners wanting to come here to work. Last time I looked people are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.

Well said.  :)

« Last Edit: January 07, 2008, 06:24:43 PM by Lana »

Offline Zakharra

Re: Enforcing the Laws when Dealing with Illegal Immigration is...
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2008, 11:46:47 PM »
 People are bothered because of the Illegal part of it. Like it or not, feel sorry for the or not, they are illegal. That is what has many people riled. Giving them amnesty will piss off a lot of voters. As congress found out the last time.

 
Quote
*Whispers* They even file their income taxes.

 Normally with a fake social security number too.  Another thing that pisses people off. Lawbreakers.

Offline Lana

Re: Enforcing the Laws when Dealing with Illegal Immigration is...
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2008, 03:04:35 AM »
People are bothered because of the Illegal part of it. Like it or not, feel sorry for the or not, they are illegal. That is what has many people riled. Giving them amnesty will piss off a lot of voters. As congress found out the last time.

 
 Normally with a fake social security number too.  Another thing that pisses people off. Lawbreakers.

I've always been bothered by blanket statements regarding a group of people.  Blaming the lack of immigration reform on the ignorance of voters is a long shot to making a valid arguement.  Yes, they are illegal, they broke the law.  No one is denying that fact.  U.S. citizens break the law everyday, it's called speeding.  But given that anyone of the people that are bothered because they are illegal were faced with the same choices and situation that some of these people were in as I explained above I doubt they would make different choices and stay in a bad situation and watch their family starve as he struggled to make ends meet.  A good portion of illegal and legal immigrants alike only desire what a lot of people in this country were lucky enough to be born with.  Has this country become so aristocratic that they just don't see how lucky the circumstances of their birth are?

There needs to be legal recourse for these people.  Had they kept 245(i) amnesty would not be sought after now.  I for one am not going to condem a person because they desired to make a better life for themselves, something that each and every one of us can identify with. 

As far as illegals filing with fake social security numbers goes.  Well I would research that before you comment.  http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/itin.html  It is totally legal and not fake in any way.  Would you rather have them not pay their taxes, thus breaking another law and just "cost us taxpayers" money or be responsible contributing members of society and pay their taxes?  U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services does consider it "good moral character" to file your taxes.  Besides the amnesty would be granted only for their illegal entry.  They still have to be able to qualify to file for adjustment which means they could not have committed any crimes of moral turpitude, etc. 

Offline Zakharra

Re: Enforcing the Laws when Dealing with Illegal Immigration is...
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2008, 09:11:35 AM »
 To file for taxes, you have to have a social security number. They were not given one so the only way they could have gotten one is by stealing one. To get one, you have to be legal.

  The link you posted is disturbing. They are lawbreakers when they illegally entered the country. That is one strike, a big one against them. I have sympathy for their desire to make a better life for themselves, but not when they break into our nation. That I do not like at all. Nor does the majority of the US citizens. that's why the comprehensive immigration reform bill went down in flames. The congressional members constituents were calling them in droves to act against the bill. The population saw it for what it was. Amnesty.

 That was tried in the '80's and failed because Congress did not come thru with their end of the bargain. Seal the borders better. Even now many congressmen do not want to seal the borders. Which pisses off alot of people still.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Enforcing the Laws when Dealing with Illegal Immigration is...
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2008, 09:25:21 AM »
 That being said I do support legal immigration. The laws should be reformed to smooth out the process. I'm not against immigration, just illegal immigration.

 I'll look for some links tonight, but there's  been a lot of news/posts that many illegal aliens (not immigrants) do not want to become US citizens. All they want is to work here. It's suspected that 10% of the Mexican population is in the US. That's not counting the other nationalities that cross the border.

Offline Moondazed

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Re: Enforcing the Laws when Dealing with Illegal Immigration is...
« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2008, 02:10:49 PM »
I know it's been said before... I don't understand why the media pushes that it needs reform... why not try enforcing what's already there?  Sheesh!  Too bad voters aren't as attentive to the law enforcement officers who aren't doing so as they are to the cries of "close the borders!".

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Enforcing the Laws when Dealing with Illegal Immigration is...
« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2008, 06:27:54 PM »
And why are we assuming people coming here WANT to become US citizens what if they just want to come here, work and return home at some point.

Seems to me we can crank up immigration to make it practical to let people become citizens and like many countries should include their skills and assets as part of that. But we could make it easier to just come here to work and not seek citizenship if they wish. Why does it have to be all immigration or nothing but rather have options for both that encourage hard workers wanting to come here to fill labor gaps like in farming or domestic services so foreigners can earn a living and immigration to those that earn it through legal channels.


Offline Moondazed

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Re: Enforcing the Laws when Dealing with Illegal Immigration is...
« Reply #60 on: January 09, 2008, 07:29:11 PM »
In theory that's fine... but what happens when one gets pregnant?  Who pays the medical bill?  What about injury?  Who pays that bill?  That's where they're so expensive... they aren't paying into the system so they are a drain on it.  If they were paying into it that would be different... but I'd be downright amazed to see anything change because companies will still want to be able to use them like cattle without any consideration for their needs.

Online National AcrobatTopic starter

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Re: Enforcing the Laws when Dealing with Illegal Immigration is...
« Reply #61 on: January 11, 2008, 01:38:18 PM »
In theory that's fine... but what happens when one gets pregnant?  Who pays the medical bill?  What about injury?  Who pays that bill?  That's where they're so expensive... they aren't paying into the system so they are a drain on it.  If they were paying into it that would be different... but I'd be downright amazed to see anything change because companies will still want to be able to use them like cattle without any consideration for their needs.

Is it any wonder that there are people proposing the make a Constitutional Amendment that states if you are born in the US of parents who are illegally here, you are not automatically a citizen by your birth?

I actually expect that push to make some headway.

Offline Moondazed

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Re: Enforcing the Laws when Dealing with Illegal Immigration is...
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2008, 08:02:08 PM »
That makes sense to me... it doesn't make any sense that it's otherwise.