Topic: Dealing with Depression ~ A Personal Point of View

[Oniya]

'Dandy' can fit with so many intonations, too.  For some reason, I visualize Tom Selleck (possibly in a Magnum P.I episode) saying it after some misadventure.

[thebobmaster]

~leaves hugs for Cryptic and FroreQueen if wanted~

I like that reference  :)  You're always welcome to rant here. I think that part of depression is a learned behaviour to hide it for a myriad of reasons; because we don't want to 'infect' other people with our darkness and sadness, because it makes us even more vulnerable to let other people see what's going on, because letting other people see makes it even more real, to name a few.

Thank you for sharing how you are feeling right now, that takes a huge amount of strength and awareness. I hope that tomorrow is not as tough for you, FroreQueen.

I would add, from my personal experience, that another motive of just putting on a mask and pretending we are fine is because, at least in my case, I feel like no one would really understand, or would tell me exactly what I tell myself, "It's not that bad, just get over it." And, again speaking from my personal experience, the last thing I really want to hear is that I need to relax, and that it isn't that bad.

[ClaireT]

I would add, from my personal experience, that another motive of just putting on a mask and pretending we are fine is because, at least in my case, I feel like no one would really understand, or would tell me exactly what I tell myself, "It's not that bad, just get over it." And, again speaking from my personal experience, the last thing I really want to hear is that I need to relax, and that it isn't that bad.

I apologize in advance if my little rant offends anyone, it is not my intention to do. I am sooo horrible at this whole... sharing thing...

For me depression has always been a rather confusing thing to deal with. My mother is one of the few women I've met that can actually be called a Lady in the... well... from the mannered and elegant and status point of view. I remember that ever since I was young she always said that depression and sharing of bad feelings is "nothing more but childish behavior" or "a caprice" or "just get over it, it's nothing" or "don't act like a spoiled brat, it's demeaning" or "it's shameful to think like that, it is unladylike".

I don't know if anyone ever felt ashamed of it, or if I was just about the only to feel ashamed to be sad or depressed, but it did create a need for a mask. I must've been really good at it, since I've always been considered to be the fun and calm one, despite inside always screaming for help.

It gets really lonely having to wear that mask, yet... by this point I feel too exposed... too naked and frail without it, as if I would break down if I were to be seen without it. Too ashamed to talk about to anyone. Even now, writing this makes my hands shake from the words that resonate in my mind that it's childish to admit to such a thing, it's nothing but me making a stupid fool of myself by writing these lines.

People around me never seem to understand what a deep, dark, cavern depression really is, how soul crushing this emotional loneliness is and the desperation that comes with it. It is a burden that at times makes me want to do nothing more but fall to the floor and cry my heart out. My mini-me is the only one who I think understand me, since whenever I fall too deep into that dark cave, she comes to me laughing and anxious to do all sorts of ridiculous actions just to get me to laugh...

[Remiel]

Thank you for sharing, ClaireT.  I think your story is a common one; our society and culture expects us to just "walk it off" whenever we struggle with deep, existential afflictions.  To me, this borders on the cruel; one wouldn't expect someone with a life-threatening illness to just "walk it off", would one? 

Just another example of how psychological illnesses are, still, very much poorly understood.

[blue bunny sparkle]

I apologize in advance if my little rant offends anyone, it is not my intention to do. I am sooo horrible at this whole... sharing thing...

For me depression has always been a rather confusing thing to deal with. My mother is one of the few women I've met that can actually be called a Lady in the... well... from the mannered and elegant and status point of view. I remember that ever since I was young she always said that depression and sharing of bad feelings is "nothing more but childish behavior" or "a caprice" or "just get over it, it's nothing" or "don't act like a spoiled brat, it's demeaning" or "it's shameful to think like that, it is unladylike".

I don't know if anyone ever felt ashamed of it, or if I was just about the only to feel ashamed to be sad or depressed, but it did create a need for a mask. I must've been really good at it, since I've always been considered to be the fun and calm one, despite inside always screaming for help.

It gets really lonely having to wear that mask, yet... by this point I feel too exposed... too naked and frail without it, as if I would break down if I were to be seen without it. Too ashamed to talk about to anyone. Even now, writing this makes my hands shake from the words that resonate in my mind that it's childish to admit to such a thing, it's nothing but me making a stupid fool of myself by writing these lines.

People around me never seem to understand what a deep, dark, cavern depression really is, how soul crushing this emotional loneliness is and the desperation that comes with it. It is a burden that at times makes me want to do nothing more but fall to the floor and cry my heart out. My mini-me is the only one who I think understand me, since whenever I fall too deep into that dark cave, she comes to me laughing and anxious to do all sorts of ridiculous actions just to get me to laugh...

I understand ClaireT.  I live that too. And I think many, many others do as well.

And you wrote about it beautifully too. I am glad you did post, it is so far away from childish or foolish. 

[Revenant]

It isn't easy, I know that much. Some days I struggle more than others. Sometimes I feel as if I'm suffocating. Chasing my own tail.

Thank you though, for this. For this slice of peace that all who have written have offered.

[Xandi]

I just wanted to leave some hugs of encouragement for anyone/everyone who might need them. I know hugs don't fix anything but it is a gesture of consolidarity I guess.


I think everyone who post here is very brave and should get a hug if they want one. *HUGS*


Keep up the good work, 'it will be okay.'

[Rhedyn]

~nabs a much needed Xandi hug~

[MoonWolf]

You can and will kick depression in the butt with the proper help. Trust me I was down that road. It wasn't pretty.

[Chaosengine]

I recently began to study Buddhism and listen to Dhamma talks from ordained monks and it's really made a difference for me! It's not for everyone, but the practice has changed my perspective and given me a new way to consider things.

[Remiel]

I recently began to study Buddhism and listen to Dhamma talks from ordained monks and it's really made a difference for me! It's not for everyone, but the practice has changed my perspective and given me a new way to consider things.

Care to elaborate, Chaosengine?  I'd be interested to hear your perspective.

[Chaosengine]

For a long time I was... not a nice man. I was arrogant, lustful and had no spiritual side whatsoever. I broke a lot of hearts and hurt a lot of people. It was when I betrayed my best friend that I lost everything. My oldest friends turned away from me, I was tossed from my home and I lost my dignity and self respect. I crawled back pathetically to a family I had walked out on years before. To say I was depressed was an understatement. I felt that my life was over and there was only one way out... yeah, that way out. I remained in that horrible state for about a year when a co-worked recommended listening to a lecture from a Buddhist monk named Thich Nhat Hanh. 

I listened, although I did so reluctantly. He was so gentle and compassionate, that little by little I started to pay attention. In Buddhism, you cultivate mindfulness and a right way of thinking. I had been the architect of my own downfall. Had I possessed a disciplined mind, I wouldn't have been anywhere near the useless prick that I was. I still have a long way to go, but I have improved and I'm still trying. If anything that I've said has offended anyone, I humbly apologize. I meant no harm.

[Remiel]

It's funny you should say that, because I stumbled across this article awhile back.  Basically, it claims that Buddhist principles--particularly the detachment from self--can alleviate depression and loneliness.

Personally, I'm trying to wrap my mind around it.  Take the following passage:

For example, if you encounter an invasive tulip in your vegetable garden, you might be tempted to rip it out of the ground, or pick it to give to your lover. A Buddhist perspective would be that you’re seeing the tulip through a filter of your own needs and desires, which are bound up with your illusory idea of self. To see the tulip as it truly is, you must let go of self-focused stories about the tulip – how it doesn’t belong there, or how much your lover would like it – and experience the tulip in a way that’s unrelated to your own needs. Notice its beautiful colour. Be awed by the power of nature. Experience the irony of a flower thriving among the legumes. Appreciate the tulip because it’s there, not because you’re there. In Buddhist philosophy, this is a key facet of wisdom.

If I'm understanding this correctly, it's that the self--the selfish desires, passions, and cravings that we all are heir to--is illusory, and true fulfillment lies outside the self.  I simply cannot comprehend this.  My experience of the universe is limited by my own perspective, and as such, my emotions, my sensations of pleasure and pain, color everything I experience.  Thus I do not see how it is possible to not act selfishly, and still be alive.

Maybe you can explain this to me.

[Chaosengine]

From what I gather and mind you I'm just a beginner myself, is that the tulip is fine the way it is and that what I want to do with it is irrelevant. In other words, accept the world as it is rather than what I desire from it. Buddhism is big on letting go of things... like EVERYTHING. It seems really unrealistic, but a lot of religious practices are. I don't plan on giving up my worldly possessions anytime soon.

[Arianna]

Remi, not sure if it clears things at all, but I practiced Gnosticism for a long time, the Samael aun Weor version, and his teachings are very much inspired from Buddhism (it actually opened my eyes about how connected all religions truly are). This... detachment of self does not mean that you do not matter, that your emotions do not matter, but more that there is a greater meaning to everything, and that what you feel right now, this very second, is fleeting and you need to step back, try to see the purpose of things in the grand scheme of the Universe, and then act.

Personally, I started to see things in a different life when I understood how important it is to let Nature follow its course. It is hard to believe in a higher being, whoever that is, and have faith, and Buddhism is just another variation of this, one where you put your faith in something else and just accept things as they are. The reason why Buddhism is so much better for depression than other religions is because of its absolute lack of repercussion. There is no fear in Buddhism, no Heaven or Hell, no punishment if your do wrong, only acceptance of what is.

I may be rambling a bit, but meditation using Buddhist and Hindu practices does alleviate my depression a lot, and it is a topic I have studied a bit, so I thought I'd share my two cents.

[Peripherie]

I studied Buddism in college and a lot of puzzled 'wha'... moments in my studies. There is a lot of teachings about the true nature of things and how our perception gets in the way. Even identifying something (or naming) it gets in the way of seeing something as it really is because we put conditions on it. I always thought this Donovan song (even as rambly as it is) explained it in a cool way - with trippy music as a bonus.

The refrain "First there is a mountain. Then there is no mountain. Then there is." is what I'm talking about. (It actually refers to a famous Bhuddist Zen koan, or lesson.) To most people we see a mountain and our brain says "That's a mountain." We perceive it and name it as such. That the act of having the thought of "that's a mountain" seperates you for the reality of it - you're just in your head. But through studying buddism and meditation you work to seperate the natural condition of the thing from our labeling of it ("Then there is no mountain"). And supposedly, with enough practice, you get back to a place where you can experience the mountain as it is without your self getting in the way. "Then there is."

How that relates to lonliness and depression to me is that you can see a situation or moment and then try to realize that your pereception of it is a seperate thing. One that you can take, leave, or change independent of what is really happening.

A good author for anyone who wants to read more on Buddhism that kind of puts it in the perspective of life and personal development is Tich Nhat Hahn. He is a Vietnamese Buddhist monk who lives in France but does a good job of combining the philosophy with every day life.

Not sure if that helped. But it did give me a few happy moments of remebering my studies of it. Might have to go dust off a few of my TNH books.

[Arianna]

Something I found a while back that has worked for me.
Sharing in the off chance anyone else needs this, too.

[Sephira]

Thanks to everyone who has shared their perspectives! I suffer from chronic depression myself, and I agree with the sentiments on the first page that is hard for people to understand if they have never suffered. Depression often defies verbalization, and the single most useless question to ask someone who is depressed is "what's wrong?" I really hate being asked that question, because there is never a satisfying answer.

In my experience, your mileage may vary, depression ultimately boils down to existential hopelessness. The only way to lift yourself out is to reestablish hopefulness. And prescription drugs won't do that for you. What I have found helpful, not sure it is appropriate to say here, is psilocybin. Studies have frequently shown that even mild doses have the long term effect of suppressing cyclical thinking (and at least in my experience, cyclical negative thinking is a big part of what keeps you in the dirt) and giving you motivation. And I think what I try to recommend both to myself and others struggling, do whatever you have to do even if you don't want to do it. Especially if you don't want to do it. Force yourself to go out with your friends. Force yourself to join a new club. Force yourself to apply for a job you want. Fake it until you make it, as the idiom goes. Remember, you have to reestablish hopefulness in your existence, and that won't happen with you in bed. So go easy on yourself when you absolutely can't get out of bed, don't let guilt fuel your negative perception of yourself, but try to get out and live. Only living will actually make you want to live. And therapy definitely helps, if you can find the right person.

[Lrrr]

I don't want to hijack this thread or put up a wall of text, but I needed an outlet badly right now.  Please skip this if it falls in the TL;DR category for you.


Depression is an old enemy and the perspective of a few decades has altered my view of it considerably.  My father suffered from it too - although he was never formally diagnosed.  It was obvious in his case as he cycled from being a top courtroom attorney for a period of time to spending weeks in bed.  In his and earlier generations people, especially men, were ashamed to speak about such things.  If they did mention being 'down', the usual response was "Lets go have a few beers and you'll feel better tomorrow."  Unfortunately, he followed that advice and destroyed his life along with seriously damaging the lives of those around him by the time he was 45.


In my case, it took twenty years before we understood that there were no clear answers as to the cause.  After forty years, we've exhausted every combination of prescription and non-prescription drugs along with at least a dozen varieties of counseling.  I was briefly intrigued to read about those of you who have found Buddhist teachings to be helpful, but then recalled that we did explore that route rather thoroughly about fifteen years ago.


Sephira, your comment that " ... depression ultimately boils down to existential hopelessness. ... " aligns with the view I've adopted as I look back over the years.  A number of you have said how difficult it is to define depression and I think hopelessness is a major part of the description.  My best summary of my own experiences is that, with my depression at its worst, time ceases to exist and hope is impossible because hope requires that there be a future, if only an instant from now.  No holidays to anticipate, no family visits to occupy my thoughts, no next breath or heartbeat.  Only the present moment with utter desolation and its partner, loneliness, frozen in my mind.  For me, the loss of a concept of time also produces perhaps the worst aspect of depression - the sense that the abject despair lasts forever.


I reached those conclusions from the few recollections I have of being truly depressed.  Clear memories are rarely formed when my brain is malfunctioning.  I choose that word, malfunctioning, specifically to indicate that in my case the depression is clearly a manifestation of some physical phenomena, at least in part.  I have participated in several medical studies attempting to get a better handle on what happens in the brain when people present the symptoms of depression.  That does not mean that some of the techniques involving behavioral modification or altering the way I think aren't helpful - they sometimes are.  But it's clear that the medications I take do offer some relief at times, though not always.

I was told that right now I'm about four hours past a week-long black depression.  I have only horrific memories of the past seven days and I don't understand why I'm at home.  I am alone having lost my wife of more than forty years last Christmas Eve.


I have a prescription for Oxycodone to treat severe chronic pain and I have to admit that I've considered whether it would be better to end this battle with my long-time nemesis or try to rally one more time.  Having made it, there should be no worry on your part over that comment.  The fact that I've openly mentioned thoughts about whether my life is worth continuing is good evidence that I am not yet serious enough to do something foolish.  When I don't bother to reach out before planning action is the time for me to be truly concerned.

One final note.  To all my writing partners ... I am truly sorry for disappearing last year and then again this year.  Real life has been a little difficult.  All of you have given me hours of enjoyment with our role plays and I just wanted to say thank you for all your time and effort.

[Rhedyn]

Thanks to everyone who has shared their perspectives! I suffer from chronic depression myself, and I agree with the sentiments on the first page that is hard for people to understand if they have never suffered. Depression often defies verbalization, and the single most useless question to ask someone who is depressed is "what's wrong?" I really hate being asked that question, because there is never a satisfying answer.

In my experience, your mileage may vary, depression ultimately boils down to existential hopelessness. The only way to lift yourself out is to reestablish hopefulness. And prescription drugs won't do that for you. What I have found helpful, not sure it is appropriate to say here, is psilocybin. Studies have frequently shown that even mild doses have the long term effect of suppressing cyclical thinking (and at least in my experience, cyclical negative thinking is a big part of what keeps you in the dirt) and giving you motivation. And I think what I try to recommend both to myself and others struggling, do whatever you have to do even if you don't want to do it. Especially if you don't want to do it. Force yourself to go out with your friends. Force yourself to join a new club. Force yourself to apply for a job you want. Fake it until you make it, as the idiom goes. Remember, you have to reestablish hopefulness in your existence, and that won't happen with you in bed. So go easy on yourself when you absolutely can't get out of bed, don't let guilt fuel your negative perception of yourself, but try to get out and live. Only living will actually make you want to live. And therapy definitely helps, if you can find the right person.

~offers hugs~

Thank you for your thoughts, Sephira. The hopelessness feeling I can completely relate to, I think it's what makes it so hard because without hope I find the 'what's the point' thoughts really start taking root. I read an interesting article a couple of weeks ago that said something like 'depression at it's worst is existing in a body that wants to live with a brain that wants to die.' It really hit home for me.

I don't want to hijack this thread or put up a wall of text, but I needed an outlet badly right now.  Please skip this if it falls in the TL;DR category for you.


Depression is an old enemy and the perspective of a few decades has altered my view of it considerably.  My father suffered from it too - although he was never formally diagnosed.  It was obvious in his case as he cycled from being a top courtroom attorney for a period of time to spending weeks in bed.  In his and earlier generations people, especially men, were ashamed to speak about such things.  If they did mention being 'down', the usual response was "Lets go have a few beers and you'll feel better tomorrow."  Unfortunately, he followed that advice and destroyed his life along with seriously damaging the lives of those around him by the time he was 45.


In my case, it took twenty years before we understood that there were no clear answers as to the cause.  After forty years, we've exhausted every combination of prescription and non-prescription drugs along with at least a dozen varieties of counseling.  I was briefly intrigued to read about those of you who have found Buddhist teachings to be helpful, but then recalled that we did explore that route rather thoroughly about fifteen years ago.


Sephira, your comment that " ... depression ultimately boils down to existential hopelessness. ... " aligns with the view I've adopted as I look back over the years.  A number of you have said how difficult it is to define depression and I think hopelessness is a major part of the description.  My best summary of my own experiences is that, with my depression at its worst, time ceases to exist and hope is impossible because hope requires that there be a future, if only an instant from now.  No holidays to anticipate, no family visits to occupy my thoughts, no next breath or heartbeat.  Only the present moment with utter desolation and its partner, loneliness, frozen in my mind.  For me, the loss of a concept of time also produces perhaps the worst aspect of depression - the sense that the abject despair lasts forever.


I reached those conclusions from the few recollections I have of being truly depressed.  Clear memories are rarely formed when my brain is malfunctioning.  I choose that word, malfunctioning, specifically to indicate that in my case the depression is clearly a manifestation of some physical phenomena, at least in part.  I have participated in several medical studies attempting to get a better handle on what happens in the brain when people present the symptoms of depression.  That does not mean that some of the techniques involving behavioral modification or altering the way I think aren't helpful - they sometimes are.  But it's clear that the medications I take do offer some relief at times, though not always.

I was told that right now I'm about four hours past a week-long black depression.  I have only horrific memories of the past seven days and I don't understand why I'm at home.  I am alone having lost my wife of more than forty years last Christmas Eve.


I have a prescription for Oxycodone to treat severe chronic pain and I have to admit that I've considered whether it would be better to end this battle with my long-time nemesis or try to rally one more time.  Having made it, there should be no worry on your part over that comment.  The fact that I've openly mentioned thoughts about whether my life is worth continuing is good evidence that I am not yet serious enough to do something foolish.  When I don't bother to reach out before planning action is the time for me to be truly concerned.

One final note.  To all my writing partners ... I am truly sorry for disappearing last year and then again this year.  Real life has been a little difficult.  All of you have given me hours of enjoyment with our role plays and I just wanted to say thank you for all your time and effort.

You're not hijacking the thread at all, Lrrr. You're welcome to post as much or as little as you want. I'm so sorry to hear about the awful week you have just had. What you said about time is so true as well; it really adds to that sense of hopelessness. I find my sense of time is so warped when I'm depressed that I don't really have a sense of days, how long I've been feeling that way or anything. I get through the days with alarms to tell me it's time to find the energy to do something I need to do and then once it's done I can rest again  >.<

~offers big hugs~

[CrownedSun]

Depression definitely messes with my memories, but more as kind of like... a corrupting influence. When I'm in the middle of depression, I've always been depressed, and periods of my life when I've been happy just seem like so much play-acting and "faking it (without ever making it)." When I'm not depressed, the actual truth is easier to spot, namely, that there are times when I'm feeling good, times when I'm feeling okay, times when things kind of suck, times when things are (possibly very) bad... and times when I'm in the middle of a depressive episode.

It's always felt a bit meaningful to me that "when times are very bad" and "having a depressive episode" overlap in some ways, but not fundamentally.

I.e., it's more than possible to be depressed when that state, really, is the only thing making your life below-average of quality.

Honestly, though, I feel like my memory is at least partly to blame. I, in general, have a fairly good memory. I'm great at pulling up weird bits of data on most topics, but when it comes to my own life, everything quickly descends into a big fuzzy ball of 'sorta sorta.' It's not quite, you know, "I only really remember a week or so with any specificity, and a couple months back is as far as seems real," but it's honestly closer to that than I enjoy contemplating. I still have memories from further back, a few especially vivid, but everything becomes very amorphous and vague when it happened that long ago. The details are easily shifted, often filled in by my brain, and so on. As, in point of fact, is the norm for most people based on my understanding of psychology.

Just seems like that makes it easier from depression to lie to me.

[Remiel]

Lrrr, I know exactly what you mean, and I think you're exactly right--at its heart, depression is an existential crisis of being.

Unfortunately, I don't have much in the way of helpful advice, other than to offer you the paltry solace that you're not alone.

[Scaly]

I always felt like my depressive episodes were like living in that episode of Doctor Who where they are stuck in the two dreams that both seem real.

When I'm not in it, I think back to when I'm in an episode and know that I'm not thinking clearly and my thoughts are clouded. My normal state feels like reality.

But when I am having a dip, I feel just as strongly that the depression crash is the normal state. I believe in those moments that when I'm feeling really fatalist about the world, it's just because I'm being rational, and that this is the true reality and I'm delusional when I'm not experiencing it.

It's not quite the same as messing with my memory but it's definitely skewing my perception

[ladybee]

I'm late to the party (ironic term considering the subject matter) but I can relate and wanted to say you put it all so eloquently. I admire the courage to put this sort of thing out there, as it's a subject that for many of us has always been difficult to openly discuss. <3

[AcademicCuriosity9110]

I'm late to the party (ironic term considering the subject matter) but I can relate and wanted to say you put it all so eloquently. I admire the courage to put this sort of thing out there, as it's a subject that for many of us has always been difficult to openly discuss. <3

There are four very powerful words that a thread about this reminds oneself: YOU ARE NOT ALONE.

Knowing that others face the same demon, knowing there is a place to talk to them, to find support, is one of the things that gives me the strength to keep going, to not give up or give in to total despair.

The way I look at it is this: every day is a fight, me vs. depression, and so far, even though I've been knocked flat and sucker-punched more times than I can remember, I keep getting up, keep fighting, and a lot of that will power comes from what I read here. I am the undefeated champion of my life. And so are you. So is everyone else facing the struggle. You are UNDEFEATED every time you make it through the day. Another fight won. And you can keep winning. Every time I'm lying on that mat after getting knocked down, every time I just want to stay down for the count, somewhere deep inside me, I find the strength to get up and fight, to keep going. And having support, be it friends, family, or anonymous strangers on a forum, makes it easier to get up again.