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Author Topic: Mass Effect 3!! (Warning. Spoilers inside!)  (Read 6357 times)

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Offline Hemingway

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2011, 03:20:01 AM »
It's frickin' Mass Effect, man. How could it not be awesome? Unless, of course, you have standards nobody could ever meet. Which a lot of people seem to do nowadays, at least to some extent.

Offline Sabby

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2011, 04:28:57 AM »
You'd think they'd go for Asari, being the most advanced, but maybe humans have something else. You know, that intangible, somehow special human spirit.

They probably would have gone for the Asari if Shepherd hadn't intervened. As Harbinger said, 'he has gained their attention'

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Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2011, 08:07:06 PM »
It's frickin' Mass Effect, man. How could it not be awesome? Unless, of course, you have standards nobody could ever meet. Which a lot of people seem to do nowadays, at least to some extent.
No, my standards are very realistic. I just don't need any more hype in my system... I'm full up.

Offline Hemingway

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2011, 06:24:41 AM »
No, my standards are very realistic. I just don't need any more hype in my system... I'm full up.

I normally hate hype and all kinds of wild speculation. I usually shut it all out. Every time a new WoW expansion launches, I have to ignore anyone talking about it, how awesome it is, and so on. It just wears me out.

BUT THIS IS DIFFERENT.

Offline Bentley

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2011, 07:13:34 AM »
I remember I was on the Bioware forums a lot when ME2 was first announced. But eventually all the rampant speculation became too much and I stopped going.

I was going to make a list of my hopes, but it got kind of long and I realize it's very unlikely that they'll all be fulfilled.

Offline CmdrRenegade

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2011, 11:17:34 AM »
SPOILERS TO FOLLOW!!!!!



Even considering my persona, I'm trying to be cautious.  I have to admit I'm worried that they're going to have make Shepard even more "powerful" in some contrived way to do this, which will go well beyond my suspension of disbelief.  I loved ME1 and loved ME2 even more still, but  I am still wondering how well this  is going to play out though.  We see Reapers invading Earth proper and probably other major human worlds like Terra Nova (from Bring Down the Sky DLC in ME 1), but I'm wondering how that can possibly work out well for the storyline.  It took Shepard all that effort to destroy one Reaper and thwart the complicated scheme of another.  Now they're all coming at once.  If Sovereign and Harbinger were able to do so much damage with their schemes, what's the rest of the Reapers going to do.  Maybe things will change but I'm having a hard time imagining all the galactic species banding together, fighting all the Reapers, and succeeding.  In ME1 we saw what one Reaper with a large heretical Geth escort could do.  What could say, ten Reapers do to the Citadel fleet? And that's considering we saw hundreds of them in ME2's ending.  I really do hope that many of my worries are unfounded though. 
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 08:12:03 AM by CmdrRenegade »

Offline Hemingway

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2011, 02:15:36 PM »
I doubt it'll be as simple as rallying all the different species and convincing them the Reapers are real.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2011, 03:03:57 PM »
I doubt it'll be as simple as rallying all the different species and convincing them the Reapers are real.

Seems to me the massive footage of Soveriegn would be quite convincing.

Offline Hemingway

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2011, 03:16:34 PM »
Seems to me the massive footage of Soveriegn would be quite convincing.

Sovereign is dead, silly. Destroyed! He has shed his mortal coil! He exists no more!

Ah, but aside from that ...

Yes. Yes, I think that would be enough evidence that the Reapers are real.

And evidence of their destructive capabilities.

Offline CmdrRenegade

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2011, 03:52:53 PM »
SPOILERS TO FOLLOW!!!!

I doubt it'll be as simple as rallying all the different species and convincing them the Reapers are real.

That's part of my point actually best summed up in this:
AH YES, REAPERS

No matter what your choices in the first two games, 'people' as a whole can't or won't accept the Reaper threat.  The Council and Embassy races don't believe Reapers exist, despite Sovereign being far beyond anything the Geth could create.  People in the Terminus systems are too busy robbing and killing each other to notice, which was how the Collectors were able to get away with so much.  The Quarians are arguing with each other whether to take back their home world from the Geth, find a new one, or try to resubjugate the Geth.  Speaking of which, the Geth are the one of theonly ones taking the threat seriously, but they never go beyond the Veil and of course no one trusts them.  Then of course there's Cerberus who has plenty of resources, but of course no one trusts them either.  Honestly, unless there's a time skip where a lot of these conditions change, I don't see how this can end well.  Even if it's somehow possible for everybody to band together and face the Reapers as a united front, there's at least hundreds of them.  It just looks story-wise right now that Bioware has bitten off more than they can chew.  Shepard and his/her crew from both games are exceptional individuals, but what can you do against sentient super-battleships in which just one can annihilate a fleet?

But on the other hand, much of this is speculative.  There are few details right now beyond that trailer.  I just hope we don't get into an odd situation where Shepard's 'power' (and I'm using this term very loosely) keeps going up beyond the ability for people to suspend their disbelief.  That being said, they may already have it figured out and I'm just voicing my own insecurities about it.  I love the ME universe and I just hope the last game doesn't "jump the shark" with some kind of Xanatos Roulette or something.  http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/XanatosRoulette
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 08:11:40 AM by CmdrRenegade »

Offline Hemingway

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2011, 04:21:40 PM »
When Reapers come raining down in London, people are going to have no choice.

I do believe ending the conflict between the Geth and Quarians, as I believe I mentioned, will be a central part of the game. Adding the might of both Geth ( either free and having made peace with Quarians, or under Quarian control, impacting the epilogue rather than the story itself ) and Quarians to the Citadel fleet will help.

Cerberus ... Well, I'm reading the latest novel right now, and without spoiling anything, Cerberus is experiencing setbacks. I don't know how they end up yet, having only gotten about half-way through the novel, but stuff is looking bleak for them. I do expect characters from the novel to have some impact, though.

Finally, I do believe they'll find some sort of secret weapon or weakness in the Reapers. I wrote a long post speculating on that, though, which you can find in this thread if you're curious.

Offline Solstice

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2011, 05:35:02 PM »
So, firstly, I'm quite ecstatic to be hearing about this--and this year, no less! True, pretty much the entirety of the year away, but still!

However, as much as I've liked the series so far, and while I don't expect ME3 will disappoint...

Finally, I do believe they'll find some sort of secret weapon or weakness in the Reapers. I wrote a long post speculating on that, though, which you can find in this thread if you're curious.

That's kinda my concern. I honestly expect the climax will involve some form of Deus ex Machina, be it uploading a super computer virus, causing the Reapers to see the errors of their ways through good ol' human logic, or...

...Yeah, I'm hoping for something other than that. Hoping, but... not optimistic.

Offline Hemingway

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2011, 05:42:37 PM »
That's kinda my concern. I honestly expect the climax will involve some form of Deus ex Machina, be it uploading a super computer virus, causing the Reapers to see the errors of their ways through good ol' human logic, or...

...Yeah, I'm hoping for something other than that. Hoping, but... not optimistic.

Like I believe I explained in my previous post, I'm hoping for something involving the origin of the Reapers myself.

I mean, it'd be pretty cheap if they just made the same trick the Reapers used on the Geth, also work on the Reapers. I somehow doubt it'll be like that, but I guess I could be wrong. It's really hard to speculate, because there's so little information, and we're not given a lot of hints.

I should finish the novel, really. It may have some hints. It does deal with Reaper technology.

Offline WyrdTopic starter

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2011, 05:52:43 PM »
Besides learning more about the reapers. I'm also looking forward to see what involvement the geth and quarians will have in the next instalment. I remember a dialog where you ask if the quarians will lend their "much needed support". I'm also wanting see if any of those "good geth" legion spoke of will lend any assistance. could the geth and quarians work together to stop a commen enemy.

Offline CmdrRenegade

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2011, 07:26:26 PM »
SPOILERS TO FOLLOW!!!!

@Hemingway

I reread your post.  I agree with your thought about a resolution being made between the Quarians and the 'orthodox' Geth (the majority who didn't follow Sovereign and sent Legion on its mission).  Maybe it's just me but I actually hope that there's more of a mystery behind the Reapers.  They're H.P. Lovecraft 'Elder Gods' remade for the 21st/22nd century.  I have to give the script writers credit for bringing 'cosmic horror' back in a way that works with modern sensibilities.  I kind of want their origins to remain 'unknowable.' That being said that punching out techno-Cthulhu (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidYouJustPunchOutCthulhu)sounds awesome in something that plays fast and looser like in a lot of sci-fi anime.  However, in Mass Effect which takes itself more seriously, I just don't see how that could work. 

I have to admit they pushed things by literally bringing Shepard back from the dead.  As out there as that was, they kept it within my suspension of disbelief with good writing.  But one wo/man with his/her small crew taking on hundreds of gigantic, powerful, and super intelligent starship organisms...well I think you can see the problem I'm having.  The Reapers have been set up as cybernetic 'Elder Gods' and as anyone who has read Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard, or any other fiction that takes on horrors like this can tell you, it rarely ends well.  When it does, its usually because the hero was able to stop the cosmic horror from even appearing on 'the mortal plane', yet if Mass Effect 2's ending and the trailer are any indication, the Reapers were able to make the long and slow trip back to the Milky Way. 

Like I've said, this is speculation on my part based on my own prejudices, biases, etc.  Believe me, I want the game to be good and have a satisfying end.  I'm just having a hard time imagining what that could be when the 'cosmic horrors' are already there wreaking havoc. 
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 08:11:16 AM by CmdrRenegade »

Offline Hemingway

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2011, 07:34:03 PM »
Personally, I would be more satisfied learning the Reapers' origins. It's just the rational, scientific part of me wanting an explanation. I mean, with Lovecraft ( whose work I adore! ) you're bending or breaking the laws of the universe, and it's more outright magic. There's no magic in Mass Effect, and so I feel that even the Elder Gods of Mass Effect need a scientific explanation.

But those are just my feelings.

Huh. By the way. That dying star - I'm guessing that will somehow be significant, perhaps somehow using knowledge gained from it, or some such, to defeat the Reapers. Or, hey! Pull a Paul Atreides, and threaten to extinguish every star in the galaxy if the Reapers don't back off! Even Reapers wouldn't be able to survive in that void.

Offline CmdrRenegade

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #41 on: January 17, 2011, 09:15:38 PM »
SPOILERS TO FOLLOW!!!!

Yeah, I have to agree about the dying star from the Haestrom mission.  There has to be something to it if they're willing to send Tali and so many valuable personnel on a dangerous mission.  I sincerely hope that it wasn't merely scientific curiosity.  Tali did mention 'dark energy' as a probable cause.  Gianna Parasini also mentioned 'dark energy' when talking about corporate investigations for Noveria Internal Affairs.  It may just be a throwaway and a coincidence but it kind of makes me wonder if the use of mass effect fields and biotics is having a major effect on the galaxy.  I know there was a Star Trek TNG episode about something similar.  We'll see.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 08:10:54 AM by CmdrRenegade »

Offline WyrdTopic starter

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2011, 09:50:08 PM »
It would be nice if you guys could remember to tag your posts with some sort of spoiler alerts. It's just something that's always considerate to do.

Offline Sabby

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2011, 12:13:44 AM »
SPOILER, maybe :P

I read an interesting theory that galactic cullings happen as a universe health measure, and that messing around with Dark Energy (biotics, space travel and such) has unseen but adverse effects on the universe. Us dicking around with powers and sciences we don't yet understand leads to things like the premature ageing of the Haestrom star. Reaper's know this, and it may explain why they live in DARK SPACE. No stars, all gone, because someone just had to mess around with Dark Energy >.>

Us avoiding our genocide could be very dangerous for the universe. But I can see why the Reapers would choose to lead us on and then cut us back like a garden of vines, rather then try and teach us how to properly use Dark Energy. It's safer. Less room for error.

Offline WyrdTopic starter

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #44 on: January 18, 2011, 12:25:21 AM »
Then way would they built these civilizations in the first place? Their must be something more to all this

Offline Sabby

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #45 on: January 18, 2011, 01:06:16 AM »
They don't build, they guide. The Relays and the Citadel are a system that means life will follow a predictable pattern, one that sets it up for a quick and decisive end. I'm sure the Reapers do get something material out of it, since they strip worlds during a culling.

Offline Hemingway

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2011, 06:48:57 AM »
SPOILER, maybe :P

I read an interesting theory that galactic cullings happen as a universe health measure, and that messing around with Dark Energy (biotics, space travel and such) has unseen but adverse effects on the universe. Us dicking around with powers and sciences we don't yet understand leads to things like the premature ageing of the Haestrom star. Reaper's know this, and it may explain why they live in DARK SPACE. No stars, all gone, because someone just had to mess around with Dark Energy >.>

They probably live in dark space because nothing would ever think to look for a dormant fleet of killer machines out there. If dark space once had stars and planets, that would basically contradict all of science.

Now, as far as having to stop us from destroying the stars in the galaxy, that would make sense - even Reapers need some sort of energy source, and without stars there would be nothing in the long run. Reapers are ancient and powerful, but you don't fuck around with space. Space is huge. Words cannot really get across how huge. It's possible, even probably, even the Reapers wouldn't be able to get from the Milky Way to another galaxy alive.

That said, it's kind of a dull explanation, and the Reapers would have to be pretty stupid to allow advanced civilizations to emerge, knowing they could conceivably fuck up the whole galaxy.

Offline Solstice

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2011, 10:35:59 AM »
Then way would they built these civilizations in the first place? Their must be something more to all this

Covered, I believe, near the end of the second game, and so...

BEGIN SPOILERS

Throughout ME2, humans are being abducted en masse. In the final 'dungeon' of the game, it's revealed that said humans get decomposed into some kind of mineral goo and that this material is being used to construct another Reaper (which, by the way, is one of the stupidest looking final bosses in all of ever).

It's speculated  (or stated outright? I'm not sure, it's been a while) that that's the MO of the Reapers: they come back to the galaxy, process all sentient life forms into raw materials, and use the resulting stuff to build Reapers (which, presumably, look more Reaper-y once they're finished). I believe it's also acknowledged that this is incredibly inefficient, and used to reinforce the fact that the Reapers have completely alien, incomprehensible motivations and mindsets.

So... that, presumably, is why they allow civilizations to progress before harvesting them: they need lots of sapient life forms to effectively make new Reapers from. The Protheans were an exception.

END SPOILERS

...Of course, there may be more to it than that. I second the position of not wanting to have the origin and motives of the Reapers be fully explained--the Elder Gods analogy was a good one, and part of what makes them so 'scary', if you will, is that they are unknown and unknowable.

As for bringing them into the galaxy en masse...

One way of resolving the story, I suppose, would've been stopping one last Reaper attempt to bring in the fleet, maybe end on the note of "They're still coming, but at least now we have hundreds of years to prepare" or... something of the sort. People might have found that unfulfilling, but that is what I would have done if I'd been writing the story, and it would've done much better at preserving their mystique as giant, horrid, world-ending space-monsters.

So... I'll just cross my fingers and hope that Bioware doesn't just suddenly de-power the Reapers so they can be wiped out in droves.  Story's been epic so far, and I'd like to see it stay that way.

Offline WyrdTopic starter

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2011, 03:22:18 PM »
*Some spoilers may follow.*

You do make great points. But why would the Prptheans be an exception? Why would they make a gaint human reaper? To sit on top of a reaper ship and kick the enemy in the face? The whole collecter thing seemed like a "plan B" (A stupid plan B) for the reapers so they would have some thing their if they failed to use the citadel to get the fleet in from dark space. I just can't accept that their plan is to kill millions of peoplke just to make smoothies out of them.

Offline CmdrRenegade

Re: Mass Effect 3!!
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2011, 03:57:03 PM »
SPOILERS TO FOLLOW

It's been speculated in game by EDI that the Protheans failed as a building material (the 'smoothies') for a new Reaper, but they still had a potential purpose.  The going theory with the most weight is that the Reaper harvesting of sentient life is their means of reproduction.  It's also been theorized outside of the game, that the Human-Reaper was meant to do Sovereign's job and manually open the Citadel relay to dark space.  To me at least, asking why the Reapers are harvesting all sentient life to reproduce is like asking why Cthulhu, Dagon, or any other elder god consumes reality.  It's just what they do.  Still, except for what was specifically mentioned in canon, this is all speculation.