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Author Topic: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs  (Read 4403 times)

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Offline Jefepato

Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2007, 10:14:39 PM »
Devout Creationists believe that "six days" means "six days" and only "six days" not several thousand years (or the several million years that geology, biology, and paleontology have demonstrated).

You're thinking of devout Christians.  There's more than one form of creationism one can be devoted to, you know.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2007, 10:15:15 PM »
You said none were likely here Elvi?

And if you studied Creationism my view is the oldest accepted position the Fundamentalists started the Literal Creationist position which you state. Even before Darwinian Evolution most learned religious persons saw the evidence of science and concluded the Biblical account was ages not literal days. And the study of the text language in the Hebrew leaves the length of the "days" open it could be any period of time. The view you point out is actually only around 80 years old and became popular in some of the what I deem fringe Christians around fifty years.

Offline Elvi

Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2007, 10:19:00 PM »
Nope......that was Lilac I believe.....

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2007, 10:21:52 PM »
Nope......that was Lilac I believe.....

Oh yes sorry my brain is kind of at half power right now. lol

Offline Vekseid

Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2007, 10:49:43 PM »
Not at all I'm a devout Creationsit Elvi I believe the Deity extended the Creation guiding it over ages conforming to the Book of Genesis up to the Creation of Man which occured around ten to at most twenty thousand years ago. Since we over all life has a soul imbued by the Deity. This mostly fits what secular science has demonstrated and some is a function of pure faith.

This seems akin to day-age creationism or 'gap theory'.

Offline Swedish Steel

Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2007, 12:08:47 AM »
I belive the world was created by the gods putting a cap in Marduk's ass, you better recognize! ;)

Offline Lilac

Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2007, 03:22:55 AM »
It's the For Fuck's Sake Who CARESTheory of Dr. H.R. Etikat
* Lilac snips

Everyone hoping for a cure for cancer.  Not just the patients themselves, but their families and loved ones.  Every mole on your skin is a form of skin cancer.  Even some that you might not know are there.  Evolutionary science includes, as a fraction of its definition, attempts to understand the causes of mutation which are the core of such cancers, as well as the intricate cellular biology wherein viruses can shut down entire categories of such cancers.

Everyone who needs a flu vaccine.  This saves lives.  How anyone could think this sort of treatment would be even remotely possible on a year to year basis without an intricate understanding of genetics is beyond me.

Everyone who needs a transplant...  but cannot acquire one.  This will save lives.  Some people don't have a match out there, and even then, need to be doped up on drugs constantly to prevent rejection.  What else is going to help that?

Everyone who wants to walk again. - Some say stem cell research is evil.  I have a friend who was in a car accident and would like to walk again, someday.  You opinion may vary, but I favor my friend.

Everyone who remembers smallpox. And realizes that another disease like it may be out there.  This was a horrible, disgusting, crippling disease.  It's gone now.  In my not terribly humble opinion, the Smallpox Eradication Program, and its success, was a greater landmark of human history than landing on the moon.

Everyone who hopes for a cure for AIDS. Endogenous retroviruses provide a great deal of insight into evolution, along with retroviral pandemics like HIV.  In understanding how such viruses were defeated in the past, over the course of thousands of generations, we could, perhaps, learn to speed things up a bit.

Everyone who hopes to turn back the clock. Seven problems.  Religion promises eternal life, but if any have ever made good on that promise, no beneficiary has returned to tell the tale.  But here, biochemistry looks like it might offer a sip from the Fountain of Youth in my lifetime.

Everyone who hopes for the future of these and countless other research projects. That apathy and ignorance will not dampen the progress of a science that extends and improves the lives of billions.

Including yours.

That's who 'the fuck' cares.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2007, 03:25:28 AM by Lilac »

Offline Celestial Goblin

Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2007, 08:45:27 AM »
Quote
Everyone who hopes for the future of these and countless other research projects. That apathy and ignorance will not dampen the progress of a science that extends and improves the lives of billions.
As someone who might not be here if not for modern medicine, I can only agree.

As for the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I am of the firm opinion that it is not something aimed at religious belief itself. It's just a way to show how absurd the current legislation is, with giving certain priviliges to 'religious groups' just because they are religious.

I think that there would be no problem if the school would simply state: You can wear whatever you want, as long as it's not a weapon or otherwise dangerous. Regardless if it's an official Pastafarian eye-patch or whatever else.

Online HairyHereticTopic starter

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Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2007, 10:18:06 AM »
I believe that it was kicked off because of the efforts of certain groups to get creationism taught in science class as an alternative to evolution.

Offline Lilac

Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2007, 04:00:16 PM »
The tenet of observation is that you have to act like it matters.  We may have come into existence next Tuesday, and gravity may be a sham, but what logic is in preparing for the failure of gravity?

Nihilism, solipsism, and such are not philosophies you can use to prepare for a future.

Similarly, understanding our origins, properly, means that we can understand the Universe that we physically observe, and this provides us with meaningful assistance.  I did not miss your point, my point was that origins do matter.

But even if it weren't for that - even if it were still well and truly useless, we'd still have the words of Robert Wilson, when pressed to justify particle research:
"It has only to do with the respect with which we regard one another, the dignity of men, our love of culture. It has to do with: Are we good painters, good sculptors, great poets? I mean all the things we really venerate in our country and are patriotic about. It has nothing to do directly with defending our country except to make it worth defending."

Offline Lilac

Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2007, 11:45:37 AM »
I gave a list of reasons above, though the only thing that really applies is the retrovirus point.  They insert themselves into our DNA and continue along our germ line, and make some 8% of our DNA.  It turns out not all of them are 'junk'.

In the specific example you give, recent genetics is of course important for tracking linguistics and genetic diseases.

Offline Monica

Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2007, 01:10:47 AM »
Call me a raging conversative, but I find the school's actions to be quite appropriate. Granted, being a North Carolinian myself, I recognize that there is very little leg-room for this sort of thing in many of our public schools, but I do not see this as a failure by any means.

Surely, granted if I was still a high school student, if I ventured into school with a toga and crown of thorns on my head, claiming my garb as a required following of my entirely Christian faith, I'd be treated similiarly. Though, as not seen with a pirate costume, I'd probably be verbally assualted by peers who assumed I was either testing the figure of Jesus, or just outright strange.

By all means, "first amendment rights" when it comes to this sort of thing is heavily taxed in public schools, and a situation like this should by no means be surprising. And while this may bring up a rather fundamental debate on what defines "religion" and what should constitute respecting that, we also must consider that public administration also must adher to keeping civil order in school. Without some restraint on this sort of thing, public schools would dig themselves further into their already deep hole of-- well, public infamy.

P.S. - I loves me some public school.

Dai

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Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2007, 12:57:28 PM »
In Regards to Religion...


Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wagn'nagl fhtagn.

Offline robitusinz

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Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2007, 05:27:19 PM »
We have the right to speak freely.

We do not have the right to not be offended.

Offline kongming

Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2007, 08:12:16 AM »
May as well give my opinion:

Much as I love the concept of it, the school was in the right there - the problem was not the religion itself, but the fact that they were wearing disruptive garb. Right off the top of my sleepy head, I can't think of other religions that demand students wear certain clothing that would disrupt class or cause lulz to ensue. Freedom of religion, yes. Freedom to be a nuisance, no.

It's not exactly without precedent - Christians aren't allowed to stone people to death for (the sin of your choice), for that matter most (the ones that don't feature in the news for being crazy) wouldn't even want to. Just because their faith says "You should do this", the law actually overrules it. And if a Buddhist became enlightened, they would still need to attend class legally if under a certain age, and would probably need to mow their hair on occasion.

Offline Sabby

Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2007, 02:27:26 PM »
I'm not sure if its been mentioned, but this is related to an episode of South Park, using a 'flying spaghetti monster' to demonstrate how you believe in god simply because other say he's there. "What if I told you to believe in a flying spaghetti monster? I couldn't prove it exists" Now, either South Park was having a go at pastafarian's, or Pastafaria was created in light of South Parks joke.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2007, 02:35:40 PM »
Call me a raging conversative, but I find the school's actions to be quite appropriate. Granted, being a North Carolinian myself, I recognize that there is very little leg-room for this sort of thing in many of our public schools, but I do not see this as a failure by any means.

Surely, granted if I was still a high school student, if I ventured into school with a toga and crown of thorns on my head, claiming my garb as a required following of my entirely Christian faith, I'd be treated similiarly. Though, as not seen with a pirate costume, I'd probably be verbally assualted by peers who assumed I was either testing the figure of Jesus, or just outright strange.

By all means, "first amendment rights" when it comes to this sort of thing is heavily taxed in public schools, and a situation like this should by no means be surprising. And while this may bring up a rather fundamental debate on what defines "religion" and what should constitute respecting that, we also must consider that public administration also must adher to keeping civil order in school. Without some restraint on this sort of thing, public schools would dig themselves further into their already deep hole of-- well, public infamy.

P.S. - I loves me some public school.

But there is no Seperation of Church and State in the Constitution. The State cannot establish a religion ,as in base the State around a faith and promote a faith like the Church of England, it states nothing about banning or control of the expression of religion which is protected free speech.  As for the dress code that is a different matter but he has the right if he realy believes in the Spagetti Monster as a diety to express that view. And even prostelytize his belief in school outside of class to other students as long as its not infringement on their rights in other areas. In fact the bar to ban religious speech must be set very high after all if one can target the worshippers in the Spagetti Monster than one can then restrict Catholics or Jews or any other faith. As it should be.

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2008, 01:49:24 PM »
What next, they take away the little jewel thing on the forheads of those one religion. . .hindu I think. . .

Watch out or the flying spaghettie monster will GET YOU!

I'm wiccan and it's a recognized religion in the US, which is slightly shocking, but there are those who are trying to ban it. . .

Offline Sherona

Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2008, 02:04:10 PM »
number 1. Wow at the board necromancy going on here lately. This topic been pretty dead since 2007....

Number 2. I don't believe they banned him for dressing in his religious costumes, they banned him from dressing that way because he was being disruptive. It was only AFTER they banned him that he said it was his religion..

By this belief, I could go to a public fucntion in a public area where, where i live, it is illegal for public nudity and claim that they are trampling on my religious freedom because my God the Great Bosums of the Sky declares that I must not be ashamed of the Bosums She has given me, and I must go forth and convert the world to Bosummery.

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2008, 02:06:04 PM »
Hmmm, this was on the first page. . .but I was just being silly and posting to some to the stuff said on the first page of this post. . .I agree with you. . .lol

Offline kongming

Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2008, 05:47:30 AM »
By this belief, I could go to a public fucntion in a public area where, where i live, it is illegal for public nudity and claim that they are trampling on my religious freedom because my God the Great Bosums of the Sky declares that I must not be ashamed of the Bosums She has given me, and I must go forth and convert the world to Bosummery.

I am intrigued by your religion and wish to become a member. Do you get young ladies to go door-to-door with magazines?

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2008, 09:33:27 AM »
There is actually a activist group that runs around bearing their bosoms. . .It's called Bosoms for bombs or something strange like that.

Offline Sherona

Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2008, 10:13:07 AM »
I am intrigued by your religion and wish to become a member. Do you get young ladies to go door-to-door with magazines?


Of course KM! The only requirement to being a magazine girl is to be very bouncy and bubbly :) :P Would you like a subscription delivered to your door?


Edit: Suddenly I find myself playing the role of a religious cult leader...bet mine will be more popular then the others muahahaha :P

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Student punished for spaghetti beliefs
« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2008, 10:15:09 AM »
Of course it will be!  Who turns down boobs?