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Author Topic: Scientists create mice from two fathers.  (Read 1708 times)

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Offline VekseidTopic starter

Scientists create mice from two fathers.
« on: December 09, 2010, 10:46:42 AM »
http://www.medicaldaily.com/news/20101208/4511/reproductive-scientists-create-mice-from-2-fathers.htm

Quote
Using stem cell technology, reproductive scientists in Texas, led by Dr. Richard R. Berhringer at the M.D. Anderson Cancer Center, have produced male and female mice from two fathers.

The study was posted today (Wednesday, December 8) at the online site of the journal Biology of Reproduction.

The achievement of two-father offspring in a species of mammal could be a step toward preserving endangered species, improving livestock breeds, and advancing human assisted reproductive technology (ART). It also opens the provocative possibility of same-sex couples having their own genetic children, the researchers note.

...

...I am tempted to troll the net for the inevitable bigoted responses to the idea of same-sex couples having genetic offspring.

Offline DarklingAlice

Re: Scientists create mice from two fathers.
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2010, 11:14:13 AM »
Awesome! I have such a warm fuzzy for iPS cells ^_^

Article HERE, and its full-text in .pdf format is freely available. Now, why the Medical Daily article doesn't bother to actually link you itself... *grumble grumble grumble*

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Re: Scientists create mice from two fathers.
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2010, 11:18:02 AM »
I see no reason why it wouldn't work.  They've already achieved egg-fusion, and the two issues with doing the same thing with male gametes is that 1) the sperm cell doesn't have the same fuel reserves, and 2) the YY genotype is not viable (which rules out about a quarter of random pairings on the cellular level).  Since scientists have also found a way of separating X-sperm from Y-sperm, that particular issue can be avoided.

Offline Jude

Re: Scientists create mice from two fathers.
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2010, 12:33:54 PM »
Gay mice test tube butt babies?

RAGE!!!

Just kidding.  Cool.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 12:35:35 PM by Jude »

Offline mystictiger

Re: Scientists create mice from two fathers.
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2010, 01:32:18 PM »
This is good news for males everywhere!

There is apparently enough sperm in sperm banks the world over for women to do without men for about 100-150 years (so I'm told - no source on this). In that time they'll figure out asexual reproduction. And let's face it - a turkey baster is much easier to explain than a storks.

This means that while they don't need us for the next century or so... we don't need them! Hurrah!

Offline Jude

Re: Scientists create mice from two fathers.
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2010, 01:34:54 PM »
What do you say mystic, if they come up with a way for two men to have babies together, how 'bout we settle down? <3

Offline DarklingAlice

Re: Scientists create mice from two fathers.
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2010, 02:09:01 PM »
What do you say mystic, if they come up with a way for two men to have babies together, how 'bout we settle down? <3

Now I want to change my research plans to make y'alls beautiful dream a reality <_<

Offline Noelle

Re: Scientists create mice from two fathers.
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2010, 02:25:19 PM »
I suddenly just felt a chill go through my house. Did it just get cold in here?

No wait, my mistake, it was just the feeling of utter abandonment. :( Mazel tov, many happy years and test-tube babies to you two!


On a more serious note, this is ridiculously cool, especially with application towards endangered species -- those damn fickle pandas won't know what's comin'! I wonder what human female genetic offspring would look like with two male parents...and if there would be any other biological/developmental benefits or repercussions, especially in regards to having two same-sex genetic parents? I'll be interested to see any followup on this after it's had some time to be observed and tested.

Offline mystictiger

Re: Scientists create mice from two fathers.
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2010, 02:26:31 PM »
What do you say mystic, if they come up with a way for two men to have babies together, how 'bout we settle down? <3

Only if we can genetically modify little Mystude into a supersoldier...

Offline DarklingAlice

Re: Scientists create mice from two fathers.
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2010, 02:36:27 PM »
Well, the applications for certain endangered species are fairly limited. It does open up the window to a little more mixing and matching, but if the species has lost too much biodiversity as a whole (Pandas, Tasmanian Devils, etc) it doesn't really provide an escape.

From my glance of the paper the only repercussion that springs to mind is that these X/O genotype females that are generated as part of this process could kind of work as bottlenecks for (non-lethal) X linked genetic disorders.

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Re: Scientists create mice from two fathers.
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2010, 02:37:48 PM »
I wonder what human female genetic offspring would look like with two male parents...and if there would be any other biological/developmental benefits or repercussions, especially in regards to having two same-sex genetic parents? I'll be interested to see any followup on this after it's had some time to be observed and tested.

The way it would work genetically is that the little girl would inherit an X chromosome from each of the men.  It would be no different than if one of them had fathered a female child with the other's sister, and gotten the maternal X (the one contributed by the hypothetical sister's mother). 

Grandparents:
XY  XX  / XY  XX

Partner 1
XY

Partner 2
XY

Hypothetical sister:
XX

Child XX


There might be some issues regarding emotional development (face it, guys understand us as well as we understand them), and possibly societal (although there are children's books out there dealing with same-sex parents), but biologically, it doesn't seem to be that big a deal.

Offline Noelle

Re: Scientists create mice from two fathers.
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2010, 02:59:49 PM »
Interesting...admittedly, my knowledge in this area falls a little short, but it would be interesting to watch children grow and see if there's anything else that is unaccounted for that might possibly spring up in development or if they're otherwise (predictably) normal kids. It's a fascinating process -- how long have they been trying to do this, exactly? I've never heard of anything like it 'til now.

One thing is certain, the political repercussions would most positively be there, causing a stir among the conservative religious especially. I agree with Vekseid -- it's almost tempting to go and seek out Yahoo-news-style commentators for their inevitable ridiculous conclusions on the matter.

Offline DarklingAlice

Re: Scientists create mice from two fathers.
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2010, 03:03:50 PM »
There might be some issues regarding emotional development (face it, guys understand us as well as we understand them), and possibly societal (although there are children's books out there dealing with same-sex parents), but biologically, it doesn't seem to be that big a deal.
Just think of the emotional and societal problems if we used the procedure as outlined:


I eagerly look forward to the publication of the award winning future children's' book: I Have Two Daddies (and a chimeric female clone of one of my daddies crafted for the express purpose of breeding)! :P

EDIT:
One thing is certain, the political repercussions would most positively be there, causing a stir among the conservative religious especially. I agree with Vekseid -- it's almost tempting to go and seek out Yahoo-news-style commentators for their inevitable ridiculous conclusions on the matter.
Ick, I don't even want to know. Especially since conservatives are currently trying to stir up resentment over research funding right now. I bet we hear about this from some foaming at the mouth talking head in the near future >_<
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 03:06:38 PM by DarklingAlice »

Offline mystictiger

Re: Scientists create mice from two fathers.
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2010, 04:08:44 PM »
My Bing-Fu skills are sadly lacking. I was looking forward to some brainless right-wing vitriol. Fox News did give me this story:

Navy Bombs Guam With Dead Frozen Mice.

Offline Acinonyx

Re: Scientists create mice from two fathers.
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2010, 01:39:24 AM »
This is good news for males everywhere!

There is apparently enough sperm in sperm banks the world over for women to do without men for about 100-150 years (so I'm told - no source on this). In that time they'll figure out asexual reproduction. And let's face it - a turkey baster is much easier to explain than a storks.

This means that while they don't need us for the next century or so... we don't need them! Hurrah!

Yes, but we have the uterus. :D :D

Offline mystictiger

Re: Scientists create mice from two fathers.
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2010, 04:22:04 AM »
But Honourary-Bloke DarklingAlistair will assist with that mere technicality!

Offline Jude

Re: Scientists create mice from two fathers.
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2010, 08:11:39 AM »
You're carrying little Tony W Bushair.  Don't like the name?  Tough.

Offline DarklingAlice

Re: Scientists create mice from two fathers.
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2010, 11:36:07 AM »
Yes, but we have the uterus. :D :D

Eh, even with uteri, the problem comes from epigenetic changes in gametogenesis that result in a less than 1% success rate in trying to craft a daughter out of genomes from two separate eggs and a complete failure rate when trying to do it from two separate sperm (as noted, despite the title of the article the mechanism of the system is to essentially create a female clone of the father, allowing her to undergo gametogenesis to make eggs, and then breeding her with the other father) . So for now we seem stuck with each other, or just need to jump straight to cloning with artificially induced genetic variability :P

Terrifyingly Interestingly enough the article does record cases of oogenesis occurring naturally in testicles.
Quote
In the
MRL/MpJ mouse strain, rare XY testicular germ cells of phenotypic males can differentiate into oocytes in spermatogenically-active seminiferous tubules although they do not persist in the adult. It has not been determined if these testicular oocytes can be fertilized to produce progeny.

But Honourary-Bloke DarklingAlistair will assist with that mere technicality!
See? Testicle oocytes. I'm helping ^_^

Offline Sabby

Re: Scientists create mice from two fathers.
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2010, 09:45:48 PM »
Allow me to sum up all debate opposed to this story.

Aww, gay!