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Author Topic: Big Brother  (Read 2600 times)

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Offline Jude

Re: Big Brother
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2010, 04:23:58 PM »
There are 300 million people in our country.  The fact that you can dig up 4 links from the same website that describe ways in which different, unconnected aspects of our government are trying to expand their power to gather information electronically means absolutely nothing.  The first and last link are ways that they are trying to widen their umbrella, the patriot act thing is part of the whole reason the Republicans were voted out of office to begin with (so Democracy worked), and as a whole each story is about different administrations, organizations, governmental entities, and people campaigning for power.

I bet I can find 8 examples of people in the government campaigning for the opposite -- that does not mean the country is moving in that direction anymore than your 4 links mean otherwise.

What I find most troubling is this notion that government is practically sentient:  I see it all the time in people like Sarah Palin.  To her government is like Godzilla, it doesn't really want to destroy Tokyo, it just can't help but be drawn to those power lines.  Government is not some evil, anthropomorphic entity that craves power above all else.  Is the potential for the abuse of power open in all circumstances?  Yes, that's why the country has to be vigilant.  That doesn't mean writing off any expansion of power:  caution not paranoia.

Offline Serephino

Re: Big Brother
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2010, 08:43:36 PM »
Yes, the government lies to us.  I know this.  But Jude is right, the Patriot Act and everything that goes with it was the Republican's doing.  What's true and what's not I'm not sure, but one shouldn't believe everything you read.  Paranoia like this is what makes people agree to things they normally wouldn't.  The reason the Patriot Act was passed was the fear of terrorists.  It's amazing what rights people will happily give up when they're afraid. 

Offline Jude

Re: Big Brother
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2010, 09:20:33 PM »
I think the key thing here is to not be ideological or dogmatic.  Assuming certain technologies are evil or destructive innately and cannot be applied for good and regulated is kind of like believing in a real-life version of Lord of the Rings.  Cameras are not so evil that the moment you begin to watch the live feed you wither away and become a power-hungry shell of a human being who stops showering and craves nothing but more filming of our daily lives.  Even if such a Gollumesque creature did exist, the U.S. Constitution has checks and balances who, like our very own Frodo Baggins, would gladly give the government's own hand in order to free us some such abuses.

I'm going to put on my wizard robe and hat now.

Offline SabbyTopic starter

Re: Big Brother
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2010, 12:42:51 AM »
What's a Patriot Act? o.o I'm Australian, so...

Offline Oniya

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Re: Big Brother
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2010, 01:15:25 AM »
The Patriot Act was a set of measures imposed in America after the 9/11 bombing of the Twin Towers and the Pentagon, including all the insanity of the Transportation Security Administration (nothing that remotely resembles a weapon, including nail clippers and over a travel-size of toiletries can be taken into the passenger cabin, and luggage and passengers can be searched at random), and more extensive identification required for things like opening a bank account and getting a driver's license.  I'm sure there were more things involved, but those are the ones I swear at most often.

As a note of amusement - after Richard Reid attempted to blow up a plane with a bomb hidden in his shoe, airplane passengers were required to remove their shoes and have them X-rayed before embarking.  Since then, there has been this guy.  If any TSA officer asks to check my underwear...   C:) :o

Offline SabbyTopic starter

Re: Big Brother
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2010, 04:11:21 AM »
Next, you'll have people hiding kilo blocks of C4 in their turbans...

Offline MercyfulFate

Re: Big Brother
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2010, 04:36:11 PM »
Yes, the government lies to us.  I know this.  But Jude is right, the Patriot Act and everything that goes with it was the Republican's doing.  What's true and what's not I'm not sure, but one shouldn't believe everything you read.  Paranoia like this is what makes people agree to things they normally wouldn't.  The reason the Patriot Act was passed was the fear of terrorists.  It's amazing what rights people will happily give up when they're afraid. 



Obama voted for the revised patriot act, and if you believe it was just the republicans pushing us towards a police state you're sadly mistaken. Democrats and republicans are two sides of the same coin, when americans wake up and realize this we will be better off. Until then corporate greed and imperialism will remain the order of the day.

Offline DarklingAlice

Re: Big Brother
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2010, 04:52:09 PM »
The Patriot Act, wiretapping, home x-raying, and the like are all matters of concern due to their invasion of privacy. There is no expectation of privacy in public. These things are not analogous and I fail to see their relevance.

Offline Noelle

Re: Big Brother
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2010, 05:25:20 PM »

Obama voted for the revised patriot act, and if you believe it was just the republicans pushing us towards a police state you're sadly mistaken. Democrats and republicans are two sides of the same coin, when americans wake up and realize this we will be better off. Until then corporate greed and imperialism will remain the order of the day.

Where are your facts? You keep using the same buzzwords, the same key repeated phrases you hear everywhere about "the government", but I'm not convinced that you have anything more than conspiracy theory-type claims to wildly throw out. People say "the government" as a catch-all for someone to blame without actually understanding that the government protects us from itself every single day while providing us with services that allow us to maintain our very standard of living. As if "the government" is a one-minded entity, one singular unit.

Do you realize that in order for that many people to be in on this, not only would we have to rig elections, we would have to specifically seek out people who all want the same agenda -- and they would be theoretically competing against other people who want the same agenda ("total power") -- and those who lose and don't get elected, what of them? Why don't they go inform the world of the government's super-evil agenda? Not only this, but these people with the same agenda would have to not change their minds about it at any time. All of them. If even one person grows a conscience and decides they don't think it's right, the government would effectively have to off them to keep their ~*big secret*~ under wraps.

Aren't you giving the government just a little too much credit? All that and it still doesn't explain why our elected officials make choices to speak out and vote against expanding surveillance. How do you rationalize that?

And you, how do you explain your own job monitoring tapes? How do you explain them letting you, an average civilian, in on their evil, expansive national domination plans? And if you're exposing some big secret that you learned on the job, why haven't you been taken out for it? Your very existence disproves the idea that somehow watching tapes of people doing things in public will turn you into a power-hungry Gollum. Your very existence disproves that there's some super-huge secret that we're all missing out on. If the government has the power and efficiency to selectively rig officials into power and keep them all quiet, what's stopping them from shutting you up? It would be very foolish to let the public in on this great, secret knowledge you so fortunately and uniquely possess.

You don't have to put all your faith in the government, but if you they're so horrendous and if we're inevitably doomed to a police state because of some unsupported fringe theory, you should probably stop driving on roads, eating food, drinking water, using any kind of pharmaceuticals, you should not send your kids to public schools, you shouldn't rely on police or fire help when you're in trouble, hell, you shouldn't even be on the internet. These are all things that are run (and in the case of the internet, was started by) by the government. I'd start folding my tin foil hat now, you never know who might be listening. Maybe I'm a secret government official here to reassure everyone that everything is okay. Guess you can't trust anyone now!
« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 05:27:43 PM by Noelle »

Offline errantwandering

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Re: Big Brother
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2010, 11:12:15 PM »
For the record, the Patriot Act does a lot less then most people think it does, regarding government surveillance.  It changes the time-line somewhat, and it means that a warrant apply to people, rather then applying to a particular connection.  IE if a judge says they can tap your home phone, that also means they can check your e-mail, your cell phone, etc.