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Author Topic: Epic Pathfinder experiment  (Read 10820 times)

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Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #100 on: October 04, 2010, 12:39:34 PM »
That tends to be the reason that I don't really bother anymore.  Everyone wants to be evil and I prefer neutral/good aligned characters.

For some reason it seems to be that way. Shame.. I had looked at a picture that had me thinking straight summoner. I just don't like mixing good/evil groups.

My first experience was spending 3 hours making the first paladin I got the dice roll for only to have a munchkin player step in and kill me in one shot. (they neglected their game had a paladin and 2 assassins in the group.. my first munchkin encounter)

My second encounter was on Enworld. The GM had the good guys come up with 'roleplaying' characters and then made an evil group that went pure munchkin/power builds..then put us against each other. We had several characters get pulled from the group for 'munchkin' style builds..then they put us up against MAJOR evil munchkins.

My character lasted 1 round because the guy that ganked me had meta-knowledge and designed his killer to expressly kill me.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 12:49:39 PM by Callie Del Noire »

Offline Hunter

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #101 on: October 04, 2010, 01:04:42 PM »
If memory serves, my very first character (1st edition!) died by falling down because stairs broke under him.   :o

If we actually get a good/neutral aligned game going, I'll look into it.  I havne't played Gilgamesh in a while.

Offline Zaer Darkwail

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #102 on: October 04, 2010, 01:18:59 PM »
Well, I think we could make mixed aligned party without conflict if we all agree on softer side of evil (and more humorous if anything else and civil arguments etc). So nothing stops you make both paladin and assassin to same group. Just a decent compelling reason to work together.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #103 on: October 04, 2010, 01:24:59 PM »
Well, I think we could make mixed aligned party without conflict if we all agree on softer side of evil (and more humorous if anything else and civil arguments etc). So nothing stops you make both paladin and assassin to same group. Just a decent compelling reason to work together.

When the old paladin sips his ale and does nothing as the assasins gank the new palidin there is. :D I once played a very civil and helpful Lawful Evil Fighter/theif in 2nd edition. (His goal was raise an army, burn Zhentil keep to the ground, sow salt in the soil and put all the Zhentarim to the sword. He donated to charity, was bluntly honest, kept the letter of his word and was very helpful to the group. Of course he saw no reason not to poison a foe or attack from behind either)

Offline Hunter

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #104 on: October 04, 2010, 01:29:40 PM »
Well, I think we could make mixed aligned party without conflict if we all agree on softer side of evil (and more humorous if anything else and civil arguments etc). So nothing stops you make both paladin and assassin to same group. Just a decent compelling reason to work together.

Unless rules have changed, Paladins are not allowed to work with people they know are evil.

Offline Zaer Darkwail

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #105 on: October 04, 2010, 01:37:29 PM »
Yeah, the point is 'known'. But I recall in Pathfinder the paladin code has been slightly loosened to mean 'not allow unquestionably evil acts in his presence'.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #106 on: October 04, 2010, 01:49:05 PM »
Yeah, the point is 'known'. But I recall in Pathfinder the paladin code has been slightly loosened to mean 'not allow unquestionably evil acts in his presence'.

True.. but I don't see a lot of good guys being comfortable around a Balor.

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #107 on: October 04, 2010, 01:51:58 PM »
either way... most of the people who want to play evil I Run into... they want to play an anti-hero in black or somthing, either that or just be complete assholes to the rest of the party.
these are the guys who rob steal, and burn down the village when bored, then are suprised when the city guards look the other way while they get pummeled, or the next village greets them with rotten tomatos and pitchforks.
Especally when the local merchants avoid them like the plauge and they can't spend their gold or sell their loot.
yes when I DM, the world reacts to assholes...

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #108 on: October 04, 2010, 02:02:02 PM »
either way... most of the people who want to play evil I Run into... they want to play an anti-hero in black or somthing, either that or just be complete assholes to the rest of the party.
these are the guys who rob steal, and burn down the village when bored, then are suprised when the city guards look the other way while they get pummeled, or the next village greets them with rotten tomatos and pitchforks.
Especally when the local merchants avoid them like the plauge and they can't spend their gold or sell their loot.
yes when I DM, the world reacts to assholes...

Worst player I had was a 'ninja' that I talked into letting in my shadowrun. Spell locked attribute boosts, heavy combat armor, two skills in the 20s and not much else.

After watching him kill off two long term games in less than 20 minutes of fighting I decided to revamp the game.

His streetmage buddy (that did the spell locks) crossed a Yak and he sicked a rat shaman (level 4 adept) who dispelled the ninja's locks and put in a stink cloud and sleep spell in two of the locks. (the other power gamer drove him off before he could toss in a fire cloud spell). Then he started not being let into contact sessions as he wouldn't get rid of his armor, the other players SCREWED him raw on the deal (one game he got 20% of his cut and the rest of the players didn't tell him about it)

Then I starting added 'helpful skill' awards and he got like 2 points and some players would get like TEN. Electronics, Lockpicking, demolitions, Drive, ect. All the skills that he wouldn't get except for chips they learned. While he saved every point to up his stealth and bow skills up to 20, the other players got into something like a dozen skills that paid off even more.

Offline Hunter

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #109 on: October 04, 2010, 02:12:07 PM »
I love those kind of people.   Somehow every mission suddenly makes them completely useless.     >:)

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #110 on: October 04, 2010, 02:17:49 PM »
I love those kind of people.   Somehow every mission suddenly makes them completely useless.     >:)

Didn't have to, he set himself up. One of the fun ones was the night he got dropped in a pool in full combat armor, then the toxic dropped a toxic water spirit into the pool with him. He had to spend nearly half his reserve to get the armor replaced from the toxic's attacks. His suit held seals till the shaman dropped in two hi-ex grenades, since the shaman couldn't blast past our mage's spell defense.

Offline avorae

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #111 on: October 04, 2010, 02:31:09 PM »
Well i am still in and if need be i can go evil to keep group cohesiveness but i rather stay my CG. If anything i could play the lone voice of reason in the party which could lead to it's own comedic affect.

Offline ulthakptah

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #112 on: October 04, 2010, 04:07:28 PM »
You problem is not about evil people it's about Assholes who play evil people. The people who want to play evil (Me, Zaer, and Kate) we're pretty cool people, and not assholes. The evil thing we will be doing isn't that bad either, I don't think any of us are planing on burning down villages when we're bored. Kate is a succubus so she will be engaging in a lot of sex and debauchery. Zaer is an infernal sorcerer, so his power comes from evil, and I'm a Ur-Priest, so I steal divine power from gods. We're not that bad If a evil Lich steals a princess we will help you save her. Just remember Me and Zaer and going to take the Lich's secrets and powers while Kate sleeps with the princess.

Offline ulthakptah

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #113 on: October 04, 2010, 04:08:19 PM »
to summarize we will do the right thing for the wrong reason.

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #114 on: October 04, 2010, 04:32:07 PM »
ahhhh then we can get along... and my guy is probably going to try and "Enjoy" the princess as well, though in a less debauched way

Offline avorae

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #115 on: October 04, 2010, 04:44:44 PM »
Yes I think we can get along just fine then considering she was kick out of the order for her sexual tendencies. She very well might like to have a fun fling with the succubus.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #116 on: October 04, 2010, 04:56:11 PM »
Well if I went with the Alchemist/Master Chymist (durn Hero Labs for putting the Magus up last week rather than the prestiqe stuff from the APG) Callic might be a bit worried (NG) and Callie (CG) would be a bit more 'morally flexible'.

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #117 on: October 04, 2010, 05:12:23 PM »
and even my LG paladin was a gladiator, albiet the merciful kind. so he's no stranger to gray morality. though if things go too far he will crack down (IE: the succubus trying to steal a soul... if he sees it he'll have to grab it and drag it out before she eats it)

Offline WyzardWhately

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #118 on: October 04, 2010, 06:50:25 PM »
True.. but I don't see a lot of good guys being comfortable around a Balor.

Sadly, it seems the DM is not going to let me play a Balor.  So, not to worry!

My character concept works fairly well around the middle of the good/evil axis.  It's sort of troubling in that I very much prefer playing heroic (or at most acceptably anti-heroic) PCs, but many of the kinks I like RPing are not terribly nice.  So, I think my character can get along pretty well with good PCs, so long as he gets to have his secret life where the seductions can be very...unconventional.

Right now, I'm building a Universalist Wizard.  No prestige classes or anything.  I am 90% sure I can RP this character in such a way that he isn't boring at all.

He's got extensive Stealth and Bluff, and a lot of disguise, anti-scrying, and similar magic.  So, his modus operandi is to be a near-complete cipher.  He's usually disguised, gets around via teleport, lives in Magnificent Mansions or similar instead of staying in inns, and otherwise avoids situations where people know who he is and what he's up to before he's done.  Despite that, he does crave fame and recognition, so he tends to sign his work via some means or another.  His reputation grows in his wake rather than preceding him. 

Offline Chloe MilevTopic starter

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #119 on: October 04, 2010, 10:04:27 PM »
Okay...  Has everything resolved itself?  Can all the good and evil people work together instead of withdrawing?  Because I'd like everyone to be able to play what they like and still be comfortable together.  There's good and evil, lawful and chaotic, but those are less important than nice and asshole.

I love lawful evil, even though I'm too nice a person to be a mean asshole.  I'm just fascinated with the cool abilities evil things get, but going about it in a socially legal way, etc.  Anyway, I think everyone here is able to play intelligently and maturely.  Sometimes a class requires "Evil" (Ur-Priest, "Evil" outsider, etc), but they can exist socially.

If you're interested Ironwolf85, there's the Grey Guard from Complete Scoundrel.  At first level, it's a lot easier to atone, and at 10th level, you never risk losing class abilities, as long as your acting for good.

I'll try to make sure things are okay, and I'm sure they will be.  If it seems like needless assholery crops up, I'll moderate.

A straight universalist wizard is great.  It just reminded me of the Unseen Seer from Complete Mage.  You get some sneak attack, Silent Spell, +3 CL to divination (though -3 CL to other schools), and constant CL 20 Nondetection.  Hmmm, I guess the -3 CL is pretty bad, though.  Nevermind, probably.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #120 on: October 04, 2010, 10:06:46 PM »
I'm working on it.. still need a few things worked out.. Working on 'Callic's Lab in a Bag' and a few other magic items.. got a few more poitns to hammer out on the 10 Alch/10 Master chymsit build.

And I need a call on the HP rolls

Offline WyzardWhately

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #121 on: October 04, 2010, 10:36:03 PM »
I still need to know whether I could gender-swap someone with Bestow Curse.  The spell states you can make your own curse, and that one definitely isn't mechanically as powerful as the specified uses.  I think the gender-changing spells in the BUCK &c. are over-leveled, so if I can get around increasing my already-bloated spell lists I will.

Offline WyzardWhately

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #122 on: October 04, 2010, 11:48:07 PM »
I'm getting close to done with my character (Bookkeeping on multitudinous spells and figuring up how much you've spent on spellbooks is a pain.)

I know we get some free LA for templates, but I'm not sure where to look for one I like.  I tend to play humans, but I wouldn't say no to something that gives me some little bennies in return for an LA that I'm not currently making use of.

Offline Kate

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #123 on: October 05, 2010, 08:35:03 AM »


Race - Unknown Celestial (new Celestial race proposal) OR fey

str  - 2 (racial)
con - 2 (racial)
cha + X (racial)

Racial Effects

a) "Sonar-sight" dependent on twin horns sets recieving echoes (hummed, sung or via instrument). Effectively blinded during loud noises
b) Impractically sensitive sight ( must keep blindfolded)
c) Impractically sensitive hearing ( must keep muffled )
d) -2 to str and con (due to porous bones, weak non-wing musculature)
e) Can fly (30 feet) and hover effortlessly, but is weak (can not fly against strong winds) and because of a very slow wing-beat pace can not react quickly in flight (graceful but not maneuverable), is not used to walking on land (-4 reflex penalty when doing so)
f) Extremely light (20 kilos) (can not wear medium without being grounded, if wearing heavy armor - can not move (but can talk) ie she can wear Mithrilchain shirt or robes)
g) + X Charisma (GM to determine)
h) Must be of good alignment (if celestial OR NA if fey)
i) Fav Classes any where Charisma is important ( Bard, Favored soul, cleric, sorcerer )
j) Pacifist/ Non-combatant: Does not engage in Mellee or Ranged physical attacks, can not pick up items needing two hands (due to weight - effectively a size smaller in weapon use due to poor arm strength)
k) Gender - Appears female

Reproduction: Complex Exotic Hermaphroditic

(To fragile to bare children, relies on either seeding other races or making other races surrogate mothers - Not all celstial references can change to fey if she is deemed more fey)

As a female - when receiving a male, the received ejaculate is simply used as a lubricant for an internal snake-tongue-shaped organ to enter the mounting male's penis harmlessly though its urethra to deposit an (celestial?) egg in each testicle where they either
I) Lie dormant until the next time the male deposits into a humanoid female
Or
II) If the eggs reside in a fiend's testicles (it the body assumes it has been raped)- they will instantly ruined but in one day their remains "painlessly bless" the surrounding tissue in a manner which gives a high chance of rendering the male fiend infertile thereafter.

As a "male" - the cliterous can swell into phallus to
either I) fertilize developed ovaries that are ovulating (with celestial? seed)
or
II) Fertilize all undeveloped ovaries of a humanoid female such that when each subsequently ovulate, offspring will only be produced if coupled with the seed of a celestial animal (eg a celestial unicorn, heavenly eagle etc)

Level adjustment = 0

Thoughts ? I do want suggestions to keep the level adjusment= 0, have a super high charisma bonus and effectively "be" what you see in the pic.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 08:52:17 AM by Kate »

Offline Zaer Darkwail

Re: Epic Pathfinder experiment
« Reply #124 on: October 05, 2010, 09:10:42 AM »
Well, you could be aasimar (+0 LA) with +2 bonus to wisdom and charisma, but add additional template which is called 'seer' from DMG II 3.5 edition (it was +4 or +6, it gave you some amazing visual divination ability but in return your blind and wear blindfold but you have 'vision' effect wise; meaning no penalties being blind).

But as note most PC core races have no penalties and all non-humans get +2 bonus to two stats. But I think best idea would be using some base race (which has the sonar thing or blind etc). Then add half-celestial template and adjust it little. We can remove the ruling that +4 three stats and rest +2 stats rule so that you instad get single high bonus and rest are +2 (or just two other stats are +2 and one is super high like +10). Also you would not get spell-alike abilities nor smite evil but could get the other stuff.