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Author Topic: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?  (Read 3532 times)

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Offline NightBirdTopic starter

The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« on: January 01, 2007, 04:55:35 PM »
I have mixed feelings about Saddam Hussein being executed at the time it was done. Leaving aside all issues of whether a death penalty should be inflicted by a government, what do all of you think about the timing? Does it seem more likely to make things better or worse in terms of the current deterioration of the situation in Iraq?

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2007, 05:09:54 PM »
Well, to be honest I doubt it will make much difference on a day to day basis. Those intent on causing mayhem already have reason enough to be doing it, and executing Saddam isn't going to change that. I also believe it was done on a muslim religious holiday, which probably isn't going to win any brownie points with the more moderate muslims either.

I don't see the situation in Iraq getting better for years to come yet. Take a look at Northern Ireland. The violence there was nowhere near as extreme as in Iraq, and that's taken decades to get back to something approaching normality.

Offline Elvi

Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2007, 05:18:29 PM »
I also believe it was done on a muslim religious holiday, which probably isn't going to win any brownie points with the more moderate muslims either.

It was done before the 'holiday' itself began.
EID, as with other religious festivities, of that type, begin at a certain time of day.

This is why his execution had to take place, before a certain time that morning, or it would have had to be left until after the religious period

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2007, 05:19:56 PM »
My mistake then. I saw reference to it elsewhere today.

Offline Zakharra

Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2007, 06:36:18 PM »
 It won't make much difference in Iraq, except in one very important way. Saddam cannot be freed and out back into power. This permanently removes him from the equasion(sp) and weakens the former Baath party. He was tried and executed by Iraqis.

 Personally I'm glad he's dead. Good riddance to an evil man.

Offline Elvi

Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2007, 07:04:10 PM »
This permanently removes him from the equasion(sp) and weakens the former Baath party.

Only now he is seen as a martyr.

Offline Zakharra

Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2007, 08:31:48 PM »
This permanently removes him from the equasion(sp) and weakens the former Baath party.

Only now he is seen as a martyr.

 He'd be seen as one anyways, wether alive or dead. besides, he wasnm't that well loved. Even by the Sunnis, so his death will have little effectivness for the terrorist/insurgents to exploite.

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Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2007, 01:12:13 AM »
Actually Eid for Sunni's started on Saturday and Sunday for Shiite.

Offline Elvi

Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2007, 03:45:56 AM »
Yes it did, however, as I have said, EID does not start at midnight, the time that it begins depends where you are in the world and upon the moon and which phase it is in.

EID is the celebration that follows Rammadan, (Or Ramzan depending which country you are in), which is the Muslim 30 day fast.

Hussein was hung just before the EID celebration was due to begin, sort of like hanging him at five to midnight Christmas eve.....
« Last Edit: January 02, 2007, 03:47:07 AM by Elvi »

Offline National Acrobat

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Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2007, 07:59:49 AM »
This permanently removes him from the equasion(sp) and weakens the former Baath party.

Only now he is seen as a martyr.

He's only seen as a martyr by the Sunni Minority whom he kept propped in power. For the Shiite Majority that he oppressed, they are simply glad that justice was done.


Offline NightBirdTopic starter

Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2007, 09:41:56 PM »
Some of the 'talking heads' were saying that there was some concern about the groups who'd not had a chance to be part of the accusations, but I heard today that the trials of various co-defendants are going to continue. I keep leaning between concern that his becoming a martyr might further the alienation between the Sunnis and all the rest of the sectarian and ethnic groups in Iraq, but then I wonder if they really could get much worse than they already are.

The victorious Allies after WWI set up an impossible situation in the Middle East, drawing out boundaries for nation states that jumbled groups together into a single nation who'd pretty much always been bitter enemies. The concept of the nation state isn't necessarily the ideal way to structure a polity, but with the way they did it, and the spoils given to warlords who supported the Allies, there wasn't even the natural process of accretion that took place over time to make the nation state a workable structure in Europe. After reading A Peace to End All Peace, arguably still one of the best books on the subject, I think the problems in the region were inevitable. If that's the case, though... what can we, or anyone, do to resolve it? In the similar situation of the Balkans, splintering continues. Can the underlying crisis be resolved without returning these areas to what amounts to tribal governance?

Offline GoldenChild

Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2007, 04:23:46 AM »
The execution of Saddam has nothing to do of timing. The death penalty shouldn't have been used at all in the first place because what did it solved? Nothing, now he is dead and can't be held trail against everything else he has done.

A better punishment would to give him life in prisonment as that stings a bit more then death.

Offline Elvi

Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2007, 04:50:35 AM »
Whether we agree with the death penalty or not, it is that country's form of punishment.
However, I do agree that there should have been other charges put forward first.

As I have said above, whether he should have been hung or when that was done, is that country's affair, but I am concerned about the way in which it was done.
That, more than the fact this man is dead, is going to enrage people.....I know it has disgusted me.

Offline Zakharra

Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2007, 08:31:19 AM »
 If he had been tried for all of his crimes, the man would have died of old age before getting thru them all. Now he has been punished and it is done. His death will not neccessarily mean more violence. As far as I know, there has been no noticable increase of violence in Iraq.

 He's dead, which is a good thing. The man deserved to be executed. No chance of an innocent being killed this time. It was carried out in a timely fashion by Iraq, in according to their laws. I find any sympathy for him to be odd since the man was a monster to his own people. He now cannot be freed from prison and come back into power or try to take power back.

 I'm glad he's dead.

Offline Elvi

Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2007, 08:43:39 AM »
So Zakharra, you believe that a state execution should be filmed by mobile phone and that the person who is to be executed should be heckled and harranged?

There was also a hell of a lot more for him to answer for, that will now remain unanswered and the truth will not be found, nor other peoples involvement in those actions publicised.

Dance on his grave if you wish, I have no sympathy for Sadam Hussein, but I also have no sympathy for those who put him in power, gave him the training, the equipment, backing and the freedom to do what he did either.

Offline Mistiq

Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2007, 12:52:12 PM »
I just learn a helluva lot just now, for that I am glad. I don't think timing really matter ethier. All I have to say is that life in prison would have been expensive would it not? Or is that just the case in US?

{Think that the US needs to take a lesson for Iraq about the Death Penalty, though I don't support it, giving people maybe forty days to appeal then proceeding with it would make it a lot less expensive for this already debted country.}

Offline GoldenChild

Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2007, 01:51:48 PM »
Considering the number of innocent people your country sentence to death I'm glad you don't use those rules.

Offline PhoenixBlaze

Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2007, 03:39:28 PM »
This a touchy subject, do I think it was wrong to film it with a phone? Yes. Do I think he should have died? Yes and no, one death was an easy way out for him, life would have been better I think, yet he orchestrated many other peoples deaths so it seemes to fit somehow. I watched the vidoe that was taken, and they did taunt and torment him with words beforehand and during, which I agree with elvi wasn't right no matter what he did. Afterall we are not in school anymore and shouldn't act like kids. I am also glad he is deadd, and for the people he harassed and tortured it should be a morale boost I think. Either way what's done is done, and yet despite the fact he is gone things are still bad will continue to be, saddam hussein was just a big monkey who was finally taken off of iraq's back.

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Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2007, 05:18:57 PM »

Dance on his grave if you wish, I have no sympathy for Sadam Hussein, but I also have no sympathy for those who put him in power, gave him the training, the equipment, backing and the freedom to do what he did either.

Gee I wonder who they were?  ;D

Offline Zakharra

Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2007, 06:33:48 PM »
So Zakharra, you believe that a state execution should be filmed by mobile phone and that the person who is to be executed should be heckled and harranged?

There was also a hell of a lot more for him to answer for, that will now remain unanswered and the truth will not be found, nor other peoples involvement in those actions publicised.

Dance on his grave if you wish, I have no sympathy for Sadam Hussein, but I also have no sympathy for those who put him in power, gave him the training, the equipment, backing and the freedom to do what he did either.

 I'll answer these; It should not have been filmed by a mobile phone. The person that did it snuck the phone in. It was filmed by the Iraqis, the phone was a screw up. Not enough of a search of the people watching it. The person who did it was stupid as hell. He (or she) knew that they were not supposed to do that, yet did it anyways.

 At the time (early 1980's) he was the best choice in a bad situation. The lesser of two evils. You cannot always make a good choice when what you have to chooose from is limited. Which it was then.

 There will be alot more information coming out on what he did. There's a ton of it out now. He deserved to die.

 As to him being heckled, I expected something like that. The man had ruled over and murdered the peoiple who heckled him. What do you expect them to do when they finally see the man who's caused their people hundreds of thousands of dead about to be hanged? Be silent? Hell, if I was in the same situation, facing the murderer of my people (or family), I'd tell him  a thing or two myself. It's a natural reaction what they did.

 
I just learn a helluva lot just now, for that I am glad. I don't think timing really matter ethier. All I have to say is that life in prison would have been expensive would it not? Or is that just the case in US?

{Think that the US needs to take a lesson for Iraq about the Death Penalty, though I don't support it, giving people maybe forty days to appeal then proceeding with it would make it a lot less expensive for this already debted country.}

 It costs about $30-35,000 per year per prisoner to keep inmates. Death row inmates after awhile tend to cost alot. Especially when they sit on death row for 25,30,40 years before finally being executed or dying of old age.
 

Offline Mistiq

Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2007, 07:12:41 PM »
Considering the number of innocent people your country sentence to death I'm glad you don't use those rules.
Yes I know but i speak from a purely monetary stand point, evil as that may be. Broke as we are they should get fancy with executions should be quick and painless or quick and painful all I am saying is they should happen faster so people aren't waiting die for a quarter of century and shit.*

*I even disagree with part of what I just said, but stepped out of me for that one.

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Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2007, 08:04:11 PM »
Gee I wonder who they were?  ;D

I really could care less, it was wrong in how it was done.  The whole video taping, and it undermined the regime that is buffed up by us the US.   

But the true facts to all those that want to lay claim to the US having funded him and built his army up.

No we did not, never did.   We did thou at the out set of the Iran-Iraq war supply valuable satellite information on Iranian troop movement.  Now the arms that were used were Soviet/Russian,  Chinese and French military arms.  Those are the countries that supplied and maintain the arms of Iraq.   

Now American was not at fault is a lie also, for already forewarned of the megalomaniac of Saddam.  And the threat to turn the region into world war 3 by the atholyah at the time.    As the Iraqs were on the verge of winning.   We Americans supplied missiles to the Iranians.  Which were quite effective in combating the mechanized divisions of the republican guard.  Does anyone remember in history.  Me I was a little girl at the time.  But was not their the Iran contra scandal. 

But back to suppliers of Iraq military under Saddam.  Is it not amazing that the three predominately countries of Russia, China and France opposed the war.  It was not out of  humanitarian or taking the lead to peace.  No it was over the fact that the regime of Saddam was indebted to each of those countries for billions of dollars for the arms.  That continued to fund and sell them to him.

The sad part was we put in war hawks that rushed us into a foolish endeavor,  under false pretense of their being weapons of mass destructions.   Which has been proven untrue. and a lie.  Shame on us.

But then at one time he did have chemical weapons such as anthrax used on the Kurds,  the Iranians in the late eighties and early nineties.   We can thank France and China for that.





Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2007, 01:47:17 AM »
Well, one feature that seems to go unnoticed is that the United States asked the Iraqi government to hold on the execution.  They knew that a rushed execution would appear unfair and bias.  Already the United Nations trial was under scrutiny for being quick and possibly unfair and the United States was trying to avoid suspicion falling on the newly formed government.  The Iraqis did go ahead with the execution and while people may understand why they heckled him, that doesn't excuse the fact they did.  If we were sentencing a black man to death who had killed several white people and the guards started screaming white power at him just before giving him the injection, there would be mass hysteria.  That is a similiar case to what Hussein expierenced just before dying and the man was praying.  If the image of a man praying to his God while being taunted by his enemies is not the perfect image of a martyr, I don't know what is.  They may as well given him a crown of thorns and a cross to go with it, make for better television at least.

The Iraq government botched the execution, big time.  Instead of turning this into an example of putting away their past, unifying their people, and looking to the future they allowed old hatred to rear its head and split themselves even further.  Perhaps the Sunnis were looking for violence to begin with, but now they are justified and given a powerful recruiting tool.

Offline Zakharra

Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2007, 08:41:47 AM »
Quote
Already the United Nations trial was under scrutiny for being quick and possibly unfair and the United States was trying to avoid suspicion falling on the newly formed government.  The Iraqis did go ahead with the execution and while people may understand why they heckled him, that doesn't excuse the fact they did.  If we were sentencing a black man to death who had killed several white people and the guards started screaming white power at him just before giving him the injection, there would be mass hysteria.

 Wrong on several accounts. First, it was not a UN trial, but an Iraqi trail. It was done according to Iraqi law, which mandates a 30 day maximum time limit for the execution. Thus he could have been remanded to the hangsman noose minutes after his appeal was denied by the courts.

 Also your analogy isn't suitable. Screaming racist white power remarks at the hanging of a black man is different than what happened at Saddam's hanging. It was not racially motivated heckling in this hanging but hatred for a man that had murdered hundreds of thousands of his OWN citizens.

 If the Sunnis use this as an excuse, then it's their problem, since the power of their former rule is now permanently dead. Thank the Goddess for that.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: The Execution of Saddam Hussein: Good Timing or Bad Timing?
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2007, 10:44:37 PM »
Those two groups view each other as completely different racial groups.  They look at each other and can label one another by competely different phenotypes and make distinction racial seperations on them.  Their heckling drove a solid wedge between two distinct racial groups of that country.  Any act of the death penalty should be carried out with respect, detachment, and buisness like formality.  The state needs to appear unbiased and respectful for the soon to be departed.  There was no excuse for what they did, whether in private or on national television. 

Also, it's not their problem if the government incites them.  A government who is calling itself a democracy can't alienate a portion of it's population.