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Author Topic: Ohhhh Catholicism, you rascal.  (Read 839 times)

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Offline JudeTopic starter

Ohhhh Catholicism, you rascal.
« on: August 25, 2010, 02:35:54 AM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100824/ap_on_re_eu/eu_nireland_bombing

I'm beginning to wonder how many more scandals the Catholic Church can survive at this point.  I won't rehash the same points as in previous threads (though I do think I'm beginning to question the Vatican's statehood even more given this), but this is an outrage.

Offline Brandon

Re: Ohhhh Catholicism, you rascal.
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2010, 03:57:08 AM »
The first things that jumped out at me here were first off, why didnt the Ireland police immediately detain Chesney on grounds of at least questioning? Police dont name a  suspect without sufficent evidence to be pretty sure that the suspect is their guy so it just seems odd to me. The second thing that jumps out at me is if they had evidence or at least had a good case why didnt they seek extradition in pursuit of the case? Again seems odd to me. The third thing that jumps out at me is the article doesnt go on about a Cardinal and British representative making a deal. (Im Paraphrasing there) but it doesnt go into the specific details of that deal what so ever. Its implied that Chesney would be moved out of the country to avoid charges but its not said. Why?

Now granted the justice system and police standard operating proceedures that Im familiar with in the US are going to be different from Ireland but at first glance, I see less cover up and more police mishandling of the case

Has the full report been released to the public yet? I think I would like to read it in its entirety instead of reading someones take on it like this article

Online Vekseid

Re: Ohhhh Catholicism, you rascal.
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2010, 04:44:05 AM »
Since Yahoo articles tend to expire, quoting the header:

Quote
BELFAST, Northern Ireland The British government and the Roman Catholic church colluded to cover up the suspected involvement of a priest in a 1972 bombing that killed nine people and injured 30, a new report said Tuesday.

The Northern Ireland police ombudsman's report determined that Father James Chesney was the prime suspect in the blast in the village of Claudy, just outside of Londonderry and that the police chose not to pursue him. The Irish Republican Army has been blamed for the attack.

"A senior (police) officer sought the government's assistance in December 1972, through their engagement with senior figures of the Catholic Church, to 'render harmless a dangerous priest,'" the report said.

Despite the suspicions of authorities, the church and U.K. officials struck a deal that allowed Chesney to move to a parish in Ireland where British prosecutors lacked the jurisdiction to investigate him. Police approached the leaders apparently because of fears that arresting a cleric would inflame a tense situation.

...

BBC link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11061296

Offline Noelle

Re: Ohhhh Catholicism, you rascal.
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2010, 04:45:11 AM »
Brandon, I'm fairly certain that even if you read the full article, given your typical opinion on matters that criticize religion, you would probably still find some way to deny anything that could possibly shed a bad light on Christianity, much less Catholicism.

I understand that it's bad policy to blindly accept things, that's not what I'm suggesting, but when evidence points one direction, it's equally bad policy to ignore it.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 04:47:24 AM by Noelle »

Offline Brandon

Re: Ohhhh Catholicism, you rascal.
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2010, 05:44:25 AM »
Brandon, I'm fairly certain that even if you read the full article, given your typical opinion on matters that criticize religion, you would probably still find some way to deny anything that could possibly shed a bad light on Christianity, much less Catholicism.

I understand that it's bad policy to blindly accept things, that's not what I'm suggesting, but when evidence points one direction, it's equally bad policy to ignore it.

This is highly incorrect. My problem is almost always bias and theocism against religion. Anyone has the right to crtisize the leadership or actions of a religous order but to critisize the base beleifs IMO is the same as critisizing someone for being gay (yes yes a lot of you dont agree but lets not do that dance for the 1000th time). I did in fact read the entire article that Jude posted, although I still have to read the one Veks posted or did you mean the report that the article is talking about?

In this case if there was evidence to show Chesney was a criminal he absolutely should have been arrested, tried, and if found guilty punished by the law of the land. If the catholic church and british law enforcement or politicians are guilty of a cover up then the people involved should be arrested, tried and if found guilty punished by international law. Although, considering he wasnt decreed a criminal back then Im not sure if they could legally charge those priests with aiding and abedding a fugitive

If you look back, youll see this is no different then my point of view on "pedophile" priests

The issue I take (before reading the report itself ) is the article makes me ask more questions then it answers. Hopefully the actual report will answer those questions. Im unwilling to assign blame to anyone for anything by just reading just a news article as in todays day and age they are often slanted and leave out facts to make one side look either more favorable or more corrupt

Offline Neroon

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Re: Ohhhh Catholicism, you rascal.
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2010, 06:32:07 AM »
Frankly, I have no real love for the Roman Catholic church.  However, I fail to see how this puts the future of Catholicism in jeopardy.

I'm beginning to wonder how many more scandals the Catholic Church can survive at this point.
It might have put the futures of the hierarchy there and then at risk but hardly an institution that has survived for almost two thousand years in one form or another.  Moreover, having listened to the news coverage, it seems plain that the coverup included both the UK and ROI governments neither of which are impugned by the OP.

Brandon, I'm fairly certain that even if you read the full article, given your typical opinion on matters that criticize religion, you would probably still find some way to deny anything that could possibly shed a bad light on Christianity, much less Catholicism.

I understand that it's bad policy to blindly accept things, that's not what I'm suggesting, but when evidence points one direction, it's equally bad policy to ignore it.

You're right, it is bad policy to ignore a whole train of evidence that points in a particular direction.

The evidence that I'm seeing here, in the form of the header for this whole post, and over a post history on matters pertaining to catholicism is that this thread looks designed at best to goad catholics.  I'm certainly not going to stand by and allow you to personally attack a long standing member.

So I'm locking this.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 06:33:33 AM by Neroon »