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Author Topic: USA leaving Iraq  (Read 3718 times)

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Offline Acid LipsTopic starter

USA leaving Iraq
« on: August 19, 2010, 12:45:58 AM »
USA left Iraq, that was the news today. What is your intake on this? are they really leaving? or is this just another lie from the government?

Offline Brandon

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2010, 12:53:49 AM »
Hard to say but if they are leaving all I'll say for now is Im glad those soldiers can finally come home and be with their friends and family. Everyone of them deserves our praise and support

Offline Acid LipsTopic starter

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2010, 12:56:11 AM »
Agree with you 200%. Those soldiers give so much for us and now finally they are returning home to their family and loved ones. I just wish the experience of war don't affect their lives too much. Each one of them deserves our gratitude and admiration.

Offline Huginn

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2010, 12:58:27 AM »
As I understand it there will be non combat troops still there. So its not a "All out" Sort of situation by any means. But if anyone has information saying otherwise I would be overjoyed to hear it.

Offline Wolfy

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2010, 01:01:13 AM »
Yes..but we apparently pulled all the Combat Troops out..or so the government says, anyway..o3o..Personally I think they left some over there, and are lulling the enemy into a false sense of security. :D

But I'm just Paranoid like that. o3o...Though, it would be a good idea. :P

Offline Acid LipsTopic starter

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2010, 01:02:59 AM »
Either if the non combat stays or goes this should prove something, War is ending and finally some peace will be archived soon. Although I hope and pray for all of those soldiers still in there I cannot help but feel happy about the troops coming home.

Offline Brandon

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2010, 01:05:01 AM »
well all soldiers are trained for at least basic combat. If they pulled out "combat" soldiers then were most likely talking about infantry, tank battalions, special forces, green barrettes and such. Whats left would be mostly Military police and Forward and Mid support battalions which often constitute Supply, mechanics, and medics

Edit: Also Im very happy that we went in there and helped those people and now that Iraq is becoming a stable country they can come home to us

Offline Wolfy

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2010, 01:08:55 AM »
Either if the non combat stays or goes this should prove something, War is ending and finally some peace will be archived soon. Although I hope and pray for all of those soldiers still in there I cannot help but feel happy about the troops coming home.

Personally..I don't think peace will EVER be achieved in the middle-east. There has been a religious war raging over there for centuries between the Sunni and Shia Muslims. o-o (I Know I misspelled that, Please correct me! o3o)

The closest the two have ever come to peace is...sadly....when Bush was in office, for I think John Oliver put it best. "Bush was the only man, the ONLY man, who could sit down with the Sunni and Shia, say something, and both of them say "Well, we're certainly not going to do THAT" and suddenly they are working from a point of agreement!"

Offline Auiani Koatl

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2010, 10:55:55 AM »
Personally..I don't think peace will EVER be achieved in the Mideast. There has been a religious war raging over there for centuries between the Sunni and Shia Muslims. o-o (I Know I misspelled that, Please correct me! o3o)
Not to mention the Jareb conflict, the conflict betwen radical Islam and Liberals/socialists and the conflict between Arab governments and western oil corporations.
I think peace may be achieved, but it's gonna require a little change in the strategy. Maybe more intervention of the most liberal Mideast countries (Like Jordan and the United Arab Emirates) as mediators could help to ease things a little bit, and maybe if western nations gave them trade advantages or some foreign aid, making clear its because they are more secular, we could help spreading secularism in the middle east. Western intervention is still necessary, but it should be better planed, there is no point in imposing a government that shall either destroy itself because its own despotism (like what happened after the British imposed Shah Pahlavi in Iran) or who shall turn against the west.
By the way; It's spelled Shi'a

Offline Jude

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2010, 04:24:27 PM »
I disagree Wolfy.  It took Christianity a long time to get its issues straightened out, arguably around 1800 years.  Islam is still undergoing the process of liberalization as a religion, and foreign influence is mucking up the progress in my opinion.

I think withdrawing from Iraq is a great thing.

Offline Xanatos

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2010, 05:02:11 PM »
Christianity still doesn't have its issues figured out -face palms-. No religion does, really. Its not actually the religions fault, once you break it down, so much as its the fault of the people who constantly misinterpret, intentionally interpret doctrine, or have their own ideas on what should or should not be done. There are so many different factions of protestants and catholics I don't even know where to start and many of them hate each other. Muslims are no different. The only reason it might seem like things have been "solved" is because governments (western anyways) and people finally got so fed up with religion ruling their lives, that they forced governments to have nothing to do with religions thus taking away a religions overt powers of control over a population; best example Pre-Catholic as a name/Christians during the Roman Empire/Byzantine Empire up to sometime before WWI (fuzzy on dates when the Europeans finally stripped Catholicism of its power).

So I side with Wolfy on this one, as long as there are people constantly creating new factions of a religion and people who cannot settle on anything, and constantly hating others, there will be no peace.

Offline Serephino

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2010, 10:34:26 PM »
I don't think there will ever be peace either.  I see them going right back to the way things were once we're completely out of there.  The Middle East is where civilization started, and this is the way they've lived for thousands of years.  Change may happen, but definitely not as fast as the Western world would like. 

Offline alxnjsh

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2010, 07:10:28 PM »
I hope that at some point we'll find peace in the Middle East, but I do have serious doubts. I still don't think it should be thrown out. We should always work towards it. I also think that there are different levels of peace and a Canadian/US relationship may not happen, but there can be some camaraderie.

I don't believe we were the liberators of Iraq. I do feel that the previous regime was intolerable and needed to change, but the justification for war without the United Nations was just...well...there was no justification.

*looks under Sadaam's bed just to be sure*

Yep, no weapons of mass destruction.

Sometimes the US is more interested in its pocketbook than human rights. I don't think we should kid ourselves that this was a war out of pure altruism. If so, we would have overthrown Kim Jong Il a long time ago, not to mention the Saudi dictatorship, etc.

Offline Lyell

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2010, 09:18:43 AM »
Discretion is the better part of valor?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2010, 01:09:29 PM »
Sometimes the US is more interested in its pocketbook than human rights. I don't think we should kid ourselves that this was a war out of pure altruism. If so, we would have overthrown Kim Jong Il a long time ago, not to mention the Saudi dictatorship, etc.

The difference is that the North Korean army has had the better part of 4 decades to prepare for any attack and unlike Iraq it wouldn't be fast, media friendly and the South Koreans would pay a horrible price if we tried. Plus the Chinese would have to get their piece of the action and Dick Chaney's friends don't like sharing.

Offline Brandon

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2010, 05:28:38 PM »
I hope that at some point we'll find peace in the Middle East, but I do have serious doubts. I still don't think it should be thrown out. We should always work towards it. I also think that there are different levels of peace and a Canadian/US relationship may not happen, but there can be some camaraderie.

I don't believe we were the liberators of Iraq. I do feel that the previous regime was intolerable and needed to change, but the justification for war without the United Nations was just...well...there was no justification.

*looks under Sadaam's bed just to be sure*

Yep, no weapons of mass destruction.

Sometimes the US is more interested in its pocketbook than human rights. I don't think we should kid ourselves that this was a war out of pure altruism. If so, we would have overthrown Kim Jong Il a long time ago, not to mention the Saudi dictatorship, etc.

alxnjsh have you been to Iraq in the last 10 years or even since the war began? Look I wont dispute that liberating Iraq was not the reason we went there but it was one of the good consequences that came out of it. No one can deny that we helped those people. Now maybe, I misunderstood you but on the off chance I didnt let me state that you shouldnt try to take that victory away from the soldiers who are and were there

We worked our butts off (and I say we because I was there when it began) for them and for you.

Also try to remember that hindsight is 20/20. Its easy for us to say "oh we shouldnt have gone there because there we didnt find any WMDs" because we know thats a fact now. I doubt anyone would have that same opinion  if they were in President Bush's shoes and given the same evidence he was.

Offline Trieste

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Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2010, 05:32:37 PM »
I don't think it's really fair to say that someone doesn't understand the politics of war just because they didn't hold a gun.

I don't think it's really 'taking a victory' by disagreeing for the reasons behind the war.

Keep it civil, and please keep personal stuff out, thank you.

Offline Brandon

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2010, 06:02:31 PM »
I don't think it's really fair to say that someone doesn't understand the politics of war just because they didn't hold a gun.

I agree but I think it is fair to say they dont understand the human element of Iraq if they havnt seen the state of the country in recent years with their own eyes.

There is a large difference in saying "I don't believe we were the liberators of Iraq." and something like "We didnt go there just to liberate Iraq." The former is a provably false statement but I can chalk it up to bad wording




Offline Trieste

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Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2010, 06:05:59 PM »
There's absolutely no mention of the 'human element' in the post you quoted. It was discussing politics. You came in with an ad hominem based on assumptions.

Which I'm asking you to stop.

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2010, 06:24:09 PM »
Also try to remember that hindsight is 20/20. Its easy for us to say "oh we shouldnt have gone there because there we didnt find any WMDs" because we know thats a fact now. I doubt anyone would have that same opinion  if they were in President Bush's shoes and given the same evidence he was.

I seem to recall most of the rest of the world saying exactly that at that time. As regards WMD evidence, do you recall the Downing Street Memo? Bush had already decided to remove Saddam by force, and was looking for any evidence that could be found, or interpreted, in favour of that to try and drum up support.

Offline Brandon

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2010, 07:05:30 PM »
I seem to recall most of the rest of the world saying exactly that at that time. As regards WMD evidence, do you recall the Downing Street Memo? Bush had already decided to remove Saddam by force, and was looking for any evidence that could be found, or interpreted, in favour of that to try and drum up support.

I cant say I do, in fact I think this is the first time I've heard of it. I'll see if I can find the specifics of it somewhere and give my thoughts on it though

Offline Vekseid

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2010, 11:54:26 PM »
You have got to be kidding, Brandon. That the Iraq war was groundless was known and publicized even before it began. Valerie Plame? Torture confessions? None of those ring a bell? Bill Maher and other liberals directly accused Dick Cheney and the Bush Administration of treason, and no one on the right addressed that accusation at all. The silence was deafening.

And Iran and North Korea had active, known nuclear programs. Why Iraq, rather than those countries that actually did?

Offline Jude

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2010, 12:06:03 AM »
Just because you've been on the ground in Iraq doesn't mean you understand the war either.  Sure, it gives you a series of experiences from which to form a judgment, but if you're claiming you have a better understanding because of that, you're essentially generalizing your experience to the entire country, therein making the assumption that every part of Iraq is similar and all soldiers experience roughly the same thing.  Which, of course, is wrong.

Only compiled evidence can paint an accurate generalization.  Anecdotes, even from people who have "been there" are not an accurate basis on which to form a solid opinion.  Statistics even trump the experiences of individual men and women who were on the ground (though this post isn't intended to in any way denigrate their sacrifice and service, but I do believe it needs to be said).

Offline Scribbles

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2010, 07:59:33 AM »
I have to admit that I'm glad they're pulling out, even if I'm unsure whether the situation will decline or improve for it.  From my perspective, it felt as if the occupation was only fuelling anti-American sentiment as well as support for terrorist organizations. It's also good to know that many soldiers can put this behind them now. I can't imagine what it must be like, having to be cooped up in a military camp or enclosure for so long.

Offline Brandon

Re: USA leaving Iraq
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2010, 05:01:42 PM »
Alright I did a lot of digging and it was hard enough finding a copy of the Downing street memo without someones commentary all over the page. The problem as I see it is I cant prove or disprove to my standards whether the document is real or fabricated.  There were just to many red flags on both sides to accept it as evidence. I have to admit, most of them went up because of my work in military intelligence years ago so maybe I gave it more scrutiny then it deserved. For now, I have to disregard it as evidence because when I look at it, objectively there are to many unanswered questions and to many points in the document and in the response to its existence that just don't make sense. If its real, its certainly a damning piece of evidence, but at this point in time I'm not sure if it is real

and No. I wasn't kidding when i said this was the first time I heard of it.

Ive said this before on Elliquiy, this will probably be the third time I have. My position on Iraq has always been the same. I don't care why you believe we were sent over there. The fact is we were sent there and we all worked our butts off. In the process we helped those people. I don't care what theories you have but don't ever deny or forget the good that we did.