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Author Topic: This is insane.  (Read 1104 times)

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Offline JudeTopic starter

This is insane.
« on: May 14, 2010, 04:34:55 PM »
DISCLAIMER:  He was completely exonerated of charges of premeditated murder during the trial because his key accuser was proven to be unreliable.  I couldn't find reports on whether or not he emptied 2 clips into his victims or if that's another part of the misinformation--if anyone else could find that information, it would be helpful.  The autopsy confirms his claims that the two unarmed men were moving towards him aggressively.  However, he did admit to hanging the sign over their bodies.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-05-13/renegade-soldiers-for-congress/

Quote
Last week, Ilario Pantano won the Republican nomination in North Carolina’s 7th District, setting up a challenge to incumbent Democrat Rep. Mike McIntyre in November. In 2001, immediately following the 9/11 terror attacks, Pantano, a veteran who had previously fought in the Gulf War, left his career as a successful producer and media consultant in his native Manhattan to rejoin the Marines and was eventually deployed to Iraq. In April 2004, Pantano killed two unarmed Iraqi detainees, twice unloading his gun into their bodies and firing between 50 and 60 shots in total. Afterward, he placed a sign over the corpses featuring the Marines' slogan “No Better Friend, No Worse Enemy” as a message to the local population.

Pantano said that he acted in self-defense and that the two suspects were charging at him, but the military accused him of premeditated murder. The case became an international news story and Pantano’s defense a popular cause for conservatives. In 2005, military prosecutors dropped the charges, in part because a key witness’s testimony could not be corroborated.

Far from minimizing the incident, Pantano has made his biography central to his appeal. His book, Warlord: No Better Friend, No Worse Enemy, which recounts the ordeal, features blurbs not only from the Michelle Malkins of the world but from Democratic politico James Carville. Pantano received sympathetic treatment from Jon Stewart on The Daily Show as well for his moving account of the complexity of war.
There's several shades of disgust here for me, and two key points that I find disturbing:

1)  That the person who wrote this article isn't really accurately describing the trial and is laying out the facts improperly.  This is a good example of poor reporting.

2)  That without a doubt he killed two men, in self-defense or not, then hung a sign over their bodies as a message to the local community, yet local Republicans are still supporting his election despite that?

Offline Wolfy

Re: This is insane.
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2010, 06:32:53 PM »
Hmm...Reminds me of the guys that killed that reporter and civilians for supposedly carrying an RPG when it was actually a camera.

>_> I wonder what happened to this guys, anyway...

Offline September

Re: This is insane.
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2010, 07:14:14 AM »
Because you could tell it was a camera from the footage, right Wolfy?  You just criticised men for making suboptimal decisions in a life and death environment under pressures you will never know, because they are out there doing it for you while you're sitting in an air conditioned room surfing the internet.  Did it make you feel better about yourself?

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: This is insane.
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2010, 09:03:21 AM »
There is no need for that tone. If you cannot respond without snide comments, then it's time to walk away from the keyboard.

Offline JudeTopic starter

Re: This is insane.
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2010, 10:13:34 AM »
There is/was a thread for debating the other issue--please do it there.  Especially if all you're going to do is state the same opinions you did on the previous thread in the same way.  I'd like to actually discuss this issue, thanks.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: This is insane.
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2010, 05:37:14 PM »
Hmm...Reminds me of the guys that killed that reporter and civilians for supposedly carrying an RPG when it was actually a camera.

>_> I wonder what happened to this guys, anyway...
I am going to say I'm pretty sure if those guys are halfway decent that that thought goes through their minds every day of their lives. That's all I'm going to say on that.

The sad truth is that this had the unfortunate bad luck to come up in the military and catch all that flack. but what about all the robbers and thugs in the civilian sector who get off on technicalities like that. What about the greedy executives that steal money from the working man and get away Scott-free? The world is full of bad people who do bad things but it's also full of good people who do bad things by mistake. I'm sure that guy did it on purpose you don't reload your weapon like that in self-defense but what about the woman who takes the reloads a shotgun after shooting her husband because he was "verbally abusive."

Just a little perspective.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: This is insane.
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2010, 08:47:11 PM »
I'm to the point I really just don't trust the media to accurately report stories like this.  Seems like there's always a "rest of the story" that we don't hear about until later.

And if we do take things like this in the military more seriously than we do elsewhere, it's because we entrust the military with hardware capable of killing large numbers of people (up to and including thermonuclear warheads).  So yes, we are compelled to take misconduct there more seriously than in the corporate or individual level.

Offline JudeTopic starter

Re: This is insane.
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2010, 09:33:46 PM »
I'm to the point I really just don't trust the media to accurately report stories like this.  Seems like there's always a "rest of the story" that we don't hear about until later.
I agree, that's why I looked into it more and found the rest, including an elaboration on why he was exonerated of premeditated murder.  But, without a doubt, he definitely hung that slogan over their bodies after killing them.  I don't see how that's excusable.  He would've been prosecuted for that, but after the first charges were dropped, the only person who could bring up anymore said he should be punished in another way.
And if we do take things like this in the military more seriously than we do elsewhere, it's because we entrust the military with hardware capable of killing large numbers of people (up to and including thermonuclear warheads).  So yes, we are compelled to take misconduct there more seriously than in the corporate or individual level.
I don't know if it needs to be taken more seriously necessarily (you could say I'm neutral on the subject), but what bothers me is the attitude that a lot of people in the media and the populace at large have, that the military is always blameless and full of perfect individuals.  I do think people in the military are more disciplined, patriotic, and capable than the populace at large.  I do think that they do an amazing job of dealing with the awesome responsibility and power that we place in their hands.  That does not mean that every member of the military follows these trends.

Offline Synecdoche17

Re: This is insane.
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2010, 05:45:45 PM »
You just criticised men for making suboptimal decisions in a life and death environment under pressures you will never know,

I know that it's not "pressure" that makes you put over fifty additional bullets into clearly dead corpses, and that a man who has the time and safety to loiter around his dead enemies and make mocking signs is not behaving like a man who fears for his life.

Should he have killed those men? I don't know, and I won't pass judgment when I don't know. But his antics after killing them are a clear display of rashness, to say the least. I would not vote for him.

Offline auroraChloe

Re: This is insane.
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2010, 06:34:22 PM »
Should he have killed those men? I don't know, and I won't pass judgment when I don't know. But his antics after killing them are a clear display of rashness, to say the least. I would not vote for him.

that is the psychological part of warfare isn't it?  to strike fear in the enemy or those who would aid and abet them.