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Author Topic: Tight pants are not rape proof!  (Read 3210 times)

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Offline Leo

Re: Tight pants are not rape proof!
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2010, 10:36:33 AM »
I'm no expert when it comes to laws, but I do know in most of the sufficiently civilized countries today, the woman will always have the upper hand unless the man can provide medical proof that it was not rape. I hear in Canada, a woman can literally offer herself, then call the cops and act the victim of a sexual assault and thus get the male 'subdued' with taser guns and she doesn't have to have proof.

That being said, it is an epic failure of law, humanity and logic that such a defense would even be considered. I'm not happy that law is prone to finding men guilty in sexual assault cases and thus prone to abuse by women, but it's either semi-legalize rape or protect women... And representatives of such law listening to this BS is a legendary level of idiotic fail.

Offline Wolfy

Re: Tight pants are not rape proof!
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2010, 10:39:53 AM »
I've read that it counts as Rape even if she starts objecting halfway through...as in she was fine and consenting up to that point, but something (Whether good or bad) made her change her mind..if you continue, it's considered rape in some states. o-o

Of course, Men can be raped too, you just don't hear about it as much because of the Masculinity thing. They say "If a man rapes a woman, he's called a monster. If a man gets raped by a woman, he's told 'Good job.'"

or something like that.

Offline Paradox

Re: Tight pants are not rape proof!
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2010, 10:53:51 AM »
I'm no expert when it comes to laws, but I do know in most of the sufficiently civilized countries today, the woman will always have the upper hand unless the man can provide medical proof that it was not rape. I hear in Canada, a woman can literally offer herself, then call the cops and act the victim of a sexual assault and thus get the male 'subdued' with taser guns and she doesn't have to have proof.

That being said, it is an epic failure of law, humanity and logic that such a defense would even be considered. I'm not happy that law is prone to finding men guilty in sexual assault cases and thus prone to abuse by women, but it's either semi-legalize rape or protect women... And representatives of such law listening to this BS is a legendary level of idiotic fail.

You might want to recheck your sources, Leo. Your assessment of the situation is pretty much backwards. By and large, women have an awfully hard time proving that it was rape unless they have medical proof. Hell, even medical proof isn't always enough to convict the bastards. In the case of leftover semen, the male could claim it was consensual (the "if I was raping her, wouldn't I have worn a condom to prevent leaving sperm behind?" defense). Even if he bruises her or leaves other signs of damage, there's the "she likes it rough" defense.

Rape is a huge problem for women even in "civilized" countries, and the amount of actual rapes FAR outweighs the occasional contrived sexual assault for the sake of fucking over some unsuspecting guy.

For more information on the subject, I recommend the following:

Sourcebook on Violence Against Women by Dr. Claire M. Renzetti, Dr. Jeff Edleson, and Dr. Raquel Kennedy Bergen

Battle Cries: Black Women and Intimate Partner Abuse by Hillary Potter

The Sociology of Gender by Laura Kramer

Social Inequality: Patterns and Processes by Martin N. Marger

Offline Leo

Re: Tight pants are not rape proof!
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2010, 11:09:31 AM »
You might want to recheck your sources, Leo. Your assessment of the situation is pretty much backwards. By and large, women have an awfully hard time proving that it was rape unless they have medical proof. Hell, even medical proof isn't always enough to convict the bastards. In the case of leftover semen, the male could claim it was consensual (the "if I was raping her, wouldn't I have worn a condom to prevent leaving sperm behind?" defense). Even if he bruises her or leaves other signs of damage, there's the "she likes it rough" defense.

Rape is a huge problem for women even in "civilized" countries, and the amount of actual rapes FAR outweighs the occasional contrived sexual assault for the sake of fucking over some unsuspecting guy.

For more information on the subject, I recommend the following:

Sourcebook on Violence Against Women by Dr. Claire M. Renzetti, Dr. Jeff Edleson, and Dr. Raquel Kennedy Bergen

Battle Cries: Black Women and Intimate Partner Abuse by Hillary Potter

The Sociology of Gender by Laura Kramer

Social Inequality: Patterns and Processes by Martin N. Marger

I will certainly double check my sources. But the fact that the whole thing is the other way around, doesn't make me happy.

I won't claim my country is civilized in direct proportion to the way law works here, based on my previous post (if I had to pass judgment, I'd say we're still in the 90s) but as wrong as my sources about the globe may be, I've in fact consulted lawyers and judges about this, each and every one of whom confirmed the fact that women are favored in this country when it comes to cases of rape. It makes me feel insecure that any woman who gets mad at me could sue my ass and make me suffer, even if I can easily clear my name. It's the nuisance that would be the problem.

In any case, thank you for the correction.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Tight pants are not rape proof!
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2010, 11:12:32 AM »
I've read that it counts as Rape even if she starts objecting halfway through...as in she was fine and consenting up to that point, but something (Whether good or bad) made her change her mind..if you continue, it's considered rape in some states. o-o

Of course, Men can be raped too, you just don't hear about it as much because of the Masculinity thing. They say "If a man rapes a woman, he's called a monster. If a man gets raped by a woman, he's told 'Good job.'"

or something like that.

Erm. It should be considered rape in all states. Stop means stop, from either party.

You do make a good point about male rape, however. Thank you for pointing that out.

Offline Paradox

Re: Tight pants are not rape proof!
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2010, 11:13:15 AM »
I will certainly double check my sources. But the fact that the whole thing is the other way around, doesn't make me happy.

I won't claim my country is civilized in direct proportion to the way law works here, based on my previous post (if I had to pass judgment, I'd say we're still in the 90s) but as wrong as my sources about the globe may be, I've in fact consulted lawyers and judges about this, each and every one of whom confirmed the fact that women are favored in this country when it comes to cases of rape. It makes me feel insecure that any woman who gets mad at me could sue my ass and make me suffer, even if I can easily clear my name. It's the nuisance that would be the problem.

In any case, thank you for the correction.

Well hell, it doesn't make me happy either!  :P

Still, I hadn't realize that you were from Turkey. Given the fact that I haven't done any research in my sociology classes that pertains to the Turkish judicial system, I concede that you're probably correct about the situation in that specific country.

Offline Leo

Re: Tight pants are not rape proof!
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2010, 12:13:49 PM »
Well hell, it doesn't make me happy either!  :P

Still, I hadn't realize that you were from Turkey. Given the fact that I haven't done any research in my sociology classes that pertains to the Turkish judicial system, I concede that you're probably correct about the situation in that specific country.

Not unless two lawyers and three judges lied to me... but you never know. I'll dig written information and get back to you ;)

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Re: Tight pants are not rape proof!
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2010, 12:16:18 PM »
Well hell, it doesn't make me happy either!  :P

Still, I hadn't realize that you were from Turkey. Given the fact that I haven't done any research in my sociology classes that pertains to the Turkish judicial system, I concede that you're probably correct about the situation in that specific country.

*wonders if some kind of optional nationality icon could be useful...*

Offline Will

Re: Tight pants are not rape proof!
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2010, 04:14:58 PM »
I've read that it counts as Rape even if she starts objecting halfway through...as in she was fine and consenting up to that point, but something (Whether good or bad) made her change her mind..if you continue, it's considered rape in some states. o-o

...Well why wouldn't that be rape?

Offline TheGerbilyOne

Re: Tight pants are not rape proof!
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2010, 10:30:59 PM »
Horrible! I cannot believe such a defense was even considered, much less used.

Offline Cecily

Re: Tight pants are not rape proof!
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2010, 12:26:49 AM »
I hear in Canada, a woman can literally offer herself, then call the cops and act the victim of a sexual assault and thus get the male 'subdued' with taser guns and she doesn't have to have proof.

Uh, no. Perhaps if the female calls 911 and claims to have been raped and the accused decides to attack the police officers that come to check it out then maybe he'll be tasered, but otherwise, that doesn't happen here. Proving that you've been raped is pretty difficult in Canada (and many countries), and generally it is hard to convict people in the he-said-she-said cases where there is little or no physical evidence.

Offline consortium11

Re: Tight pants are not rape proof!
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2010, 03:05:15 PM »
I've read that it counts as Rape even if she starts objecting halfway through...as in she was fine and consenting up to that point, but something (Whether good or bad) made her change her mind..if you continue, it's considered rape in some states. o-o

Of course, Men can be raped too, you just don't hear about it as much because of the Masculinity thing. They say "If a man rapes a woman, he's called a monster. If a man gets raped by a woman, he's told 'Good job.'"


or something like that.

There's actually a lot of conflicting legal theory between jurisdictions on whether a man can actually be raped by a woman. For example in the UK the actus reus of rape is:

Quote
A person (A) commits an offence if—
(a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,

Which obviously means it's pretty damn hard for a woman to be convicted... the only way is as an accessory. Of course, that doesn't mean she couldn't e charged with sexual assault (which can carry an equal sentence) but it's still a strange legal quirk.

Offline Paradox

Re: Tight pants are not rape proof!
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2010, 04:33:39 PM »
Couldn't someone make a case for digital penetration (e.g. using the fingers) under that law, Constorium?

Offline consortium11

Re: Tight pants are not rape proof!
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2010, 04:54:07 PM »
Couldn't someone make a case for digital penetration (e.g. using the fingers) under that law, Constorium?

Nope, the statute is quite clear: "...with his penis".

Digital penetration would be (possibly aggravated) sexual assault... which carries the same maximum sentence so it's more of a theoretical than practical point, but it's still an interesting quirk that in the "normal" (not that these sick offences are ever normal) course of events a woman can't rape a man in the UK.

Offline Paradox

Re: Tight pants are not rape proof!
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2010, 08:14:25 PM »
Errr. Yeah, I feel like an idiot. I missed the "with his penis" part.  ::)

Sorry about that. It's finals week, so my brain is a bit frazzled.