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Author Topic: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?  (Read 13758 times)

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Offline Zakharra

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2010, 09:06:09 PM »
I think illegal immigration is a problem, but not as big as everyone makes it out to be.  If you really think about it, they are this country's source of cheap labor.  They do the jobs that citizens won't.  There are people who won't work in a fast food joint because they believe it to be beneath them, which is bullshit, but what are you gonna do? 

 Not really. The illegals that ICE busted? Their jobs were filled by Americans the next day.

Offline Jude

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2010, 09:33:22 PM »
Not really. The illegals that ICE busted? Their jobs were filled by Americans the next day.
Right, because one example disproves that premise entirely.

p.s. American businesses would hire an American over an illegal any day if they were willing to work for the same wages; maybe even a tiny bit more.  Americans do a better job because there's no communicational barrier, plus the business won't have to worry about breaking the law.  They don't in part because they can pay them under the table, but also because Americans aren't willing to do those jobs for those wages.

Right now businesses that are hiring illegals are willing to break the law and accept a less communicative worker in exchange for cheaper labor.  There's lots of ways to fix this problem so that things are tipped in the favor of Americans--or we could just accept that we don't need menial, poorly paying jobs and focus on skilled labor that we won't have to compete with immigrants for.  Attempting to stop illegal immigration is only one solution out of a whole realm of possibilities (not to mention all the ways it could be stopped).

Offline Zakharra

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2010, 09:48:02 PM »
Right, because one example disproves that premise entirely.

p.s. American businesses would hire an American over an illegal any day if they were willing to work for the same wages; maybe even a tiny bit more.  Americans do a better job because there's no communicational barrier, plus the business won't have to worry about breaking the law.  They don't in part because they can pay them under the table, but also because Americans aren't willing to do those jobs for those wages.

Right now businesses that are hiring illegals are willing to break the law and accept a less communicative worker in exchange for cheaper labor.  There's lots of ways to fix this problem so that things are tipped in the favor of Americans--or we could just accept that we don't need menial, poorly paying jobs and focus on skilled labor that we won't have to compete with immigrants for.  Attempting to stop illegal immigration is only one solution out of a whole realm of possibilities (not to mention all the ways it could be stopped).

 No. It doesn't. But part of the illegal immigration myth is that they do jobs Americans will now do. Which is patent bs. They do have jobs Americans will take.  Do they all have jobs Americans wll do? No, but they do have some of them.

 I agree that businesses need to be penalized more for hirging illegals, but it should also be easier for them to check if a potential hire IS an illegal. If that person is an illegal, the law should require that they report that illegal. Is that harsh? Probably, but they are breaking the law just by being here.

Offline Jude

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2010, 09:55:25 PM »
No. It doesn't. But part of the illegal immigration myth is that they do jobs Americans will now do. Which is patent bs.
How do you know this is a myth?  Where are your facts?
They do have jobs Americans will take.  Do they all have jobs Americans wll do? No, but they do have some of them.
You're probably right about this, but it's a question of (1) are these "some" unemployed/unable to get better jobs and (2) if they are, how many of them are there?  Is it enough to be a real problem worth considering?

Like I said, if Americans are willing to do these jobs for that same wage as the illegals, then they would be doing them, because they're better qualified and more able to do the work.  The language barrier is a serious issue.  The problem is, the compensation gap between illegals and Americans is so large that the money saved on cheap labor doesn't outweigh the communicational and cultural benefits.
I agree that businesses need to be penalized more for hirging illegals, but it should also be easier for them to check if a potential hire IS an illegal. If that person is an illegal, the law should require that they report that illegal. Is that harsh? Probably, but they are breaking the law just by being here.
Isn't it fairly easy to check if a hire is an illegal?  If they don't have a social security number that checks out... Any job I've applied for has involved enough screening that I doubt an illegal immigrant could get by it.  I think the problem is that they don't screen because they're specifically looking to hire an illegal, but to be fair I'm not aware what the numbers are on how many businesses accidentally hire illegals.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2010, 09:33:36 AM »
How do you know this is a myth?  Where are your facts?

 Just watch the media and see how they portray the illegal. It's mostly in the most positive light as possible. The print and video media has for the most part, painted the ilegals as a 'gentle poorman that is only trying to make the best for himself andf his family and please, please can't we just forgive them and let them come in and ignore their breaking the law. They are only doing the job that Americans wll not do. *shows pictures of sad eyed cute children and women*'

 
Quote
You're probably right about this, but it's a question of (1) are these "some" unemployed/unable to get better jobs and (2) if they are, how many of them are there?  Is it enough to be a real problem worth considering?

Like I said, if Americans are willing to do these jobs for that same wage as the illegals, then they would be doing them, because they're better qualified and more able to do the work.  The language barrier is a serious issue.  The problem is, the compensation gap between illegals and Americans is so large that the money saved on cheap labor doesn't outweigh the communicational and cultural benefits.

 The language barrier isn't enough to outweigh that. Look at where they have been finding illegals? The recent ICE raid. I doubt there was any real language barrier that stopped those people from getting a job at the plants.

 
Quote
Isn't it fairly easy to check if a hire is an illegal?  If they don't have a social security number that checks out... Any job I've applied for has involved enough screening that I doubt an illegal immigrant could get by it.  I think the problem is that they don't screen because they're specifically looking to hire an illegal, but to be fair I'm not aware what the numbers are on how many businesses accidentally hire illegals.

 From what I've heard, it's not so easy to check until after a person is hired. The SS check is being done after they are hired. A law I think. I'm vague on this so I could verywell be wrong and will change my view if proven so.  I do think that a SS check should be mandatory to make weeding them out easier.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2010, 12:50:19 PM »
I have to point out several things after I really looked into the law.

One, it mimics Federal Law and adds more rights to the accused. No one can jhust be stopped they need a fair reason and since any officer can ask for ID when questioning such a person its simply saying the ID must be legal and prove your a citizen. Federal Law demands ID to do almost everything and you must have ID in everyday use such as banking. And under Arizona law you just have to show a legal identification your legal and its over your fine and if you can't the officer can question you.

Two, the very laws your bitching about allow any legal officer Federal and state and local to enforce immigration laws its in the regulations that way so when a local police officer does this its his JOB. Just like enforcing one of any other numbers of laws out there like burglary or running red lights. Arizona just game the police the tools to do this.

Three, the law is also focused on employers in the state if you willfully hire illegals once your fined and if again you are out of business losing your license. And it bans transporting and supporting illegal trafficking and other major measures. With some protections for clergy that may deal with them for various reasons and innocent activities - like if they buy a ticket to take the greyhound bus somewhere.

Maybe if the Federal government would do their job and close the borders etc. the states may not move on their own. But they don't want to do their job do they. And sice they already empowered local and state police to do this and much of the rest is state law and therefore under the 10th Amendment protections its fine by me. I LIKE this trend and all states should pass similar laws.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2010, 12:55:14 PM »
Considering the ease of identity theft (which does include theft of SSNs), I wouldn't be surprised if a person intent on breaking immigration laws did actually have a SSN that registers as having been issued.  It may have been issued to someone who is dead, or someone who has been victimized by identity theft.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2010, 12:59:16 PM »
Considering the ease of identity theft (which does include theft of SSNs), I wouldn't be surprised if a person intent on breaking immigration laws did actually have a SSN that registers as having been issued.  It may have been issued to someone who is dead, or someone who has been victimized by identity theft.

I think that the SSN idea is stupid and foolhardy given the amount of ID theft going on out there. There was the issue of the Hispanic-American who HAD his license and other things. The folks held him in place till his WIFE brought his SS Card AND Birth Certificate (missing work in the process)


Offline RubySlippers

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2010, 01:08:16 PM »
I will add this using falsified documents of any sort for ID is a crime so such people are breaking felonies. And these persons that are here ILLEGALLY are ILLEGAL in our nation breaking another law. Employers that hire them are breaking the law and should be severely fined and if they don't turn themselves around closed down. Why is this even a debate if your here under our laws and legal there should be no issue you will have proper identification? If not get the frak out of MY country your a criminal.

And I will like to note we need to close the 14th Amendment loophole that allows anyone born on American soil to be a citizen come on that is worded moronically what was for slaves to justifiably be made citizens to this travesty.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2010, 01:14:59 PM »
And I will like to note we need to close the 14th Amendment loophole that allows anyone born on American soil to be a citizen come on that is worded moronically what was for slaves to justifiably be made citizens to this travesty.

Do we go back to allowing only land OWNERS to vote to?

I'm sorry Ruby.. some of what you're saying is a bit over the top. I think citizenship should be the right of everyone who is born here.

Of course I also think that employers should be absolute HAMMERED to the extent of the law for knowingly hiring illegal immigrants. Too many companies do the 'blind eye' to that. I know a buddy out west who couldn't work for his dad's company because he would have to be paid more than their 'new labor pool'.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2010, 01:23:27 PM »
I don't mean ban them from citzenship just make sure the parents are legal citizens at some point carrying onto the child not the other way around AND they can't on their own apply for citizenship until eighteen so the children don't get any national benefits. We can make this a simple matter so foreign nationals working or visiting here don't pop out a baby and bammo get all sorts of money and benefits. That is just stupid.


Offline Jude

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2010, 03:28:31 PM »
Just watch the media and see how they portray the illegal. It's mostly in the most positive light as possible. The print and video media has for the most part, painted the ilegals as a 'gentle poorman that is only trying to make the best for himself andf his family and please, please can't we just forgive them and let them come in and ignore their breaking the law. They are only doing the job that Americans wll not do. *shows pictures of sad eyed cute children and women*'
So... it's a myth, and you're so sure that you called it BS when someone else cited it, yet you have no facts.  I'm sorry, but there's no room in polite debate for that attitude.  You can say you disagree, but unless you know for a fact that it's not true, you shouldn't be using such offensive, loaded language.
The language barrier isn't enough to outweigh that. Look at where they have been finding illegals? The recent ICE raid. I doubt there was any real language barrier that stopped those people from getting a job at the plants.
There's always a language barrier.  Someone you can't communicate with as easily is going to be harder to manage in everything from issuing daily orders to cultural misunderstandings.  And you're right, the language barrier is currently not enough to encourage people to hire Americans instead of illegals, but what people don't understand is that if you hire Americans instead of illegals you're going to have to pay them more, which will increase the cost of the goods these businesses are selling.  This will not necessarily raise prices, but there's a good chance it will.  Maybe even significantly if the product being sold relies heavily on labor for its production.  Getting rid of illegals may give Americans more jobs, but they're not good jobs (they're menial, unskilled labor) and they'll probably raise prices for everyone*.

* I don't have statistics to back this up, I'm just using logical relationships.  If anyone sees a fault in my casual logic, please lemme know.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 03:30:57 PM by Jude »

Offline Zakharra

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2010, 04:59:51 PM »
So... it's a myth, and you're so sure that you called it BS when someone else cited it, yet you have no facts.  I'm sorry, but there's no room in polite debate for that attitude.  You can say you disagree, but unless you know for a fact that it's not true, you shouldn't be using such offensive, loaded language.

Just WATCH  the news. Look at how the news agencies spin the illegals. They are, for the most part, portrayed in the best possible light. Hell, only a few years ago they were being compared to Jesus. Most of the news agencies, Democrats and liberals are very much against the law that does one thing. It [/i]enforces the FEDERAL[/i] law. It's giving local and state police to do what the federal agencies are not doing. To look, in certain situations, for illegals. Who by just being IN the US, are breaking the law.

What offensive and loaded language have I used? I've looked at my few posts in here and none of them have any racial or personal slurs.

Offline Jude

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2010, 06:23:40 PM »
You've called other people's opinions myths and BS without any evidence whatsoever that actually proves that you're right.  That's offensive and uncalled for.  You can tell other people you think they're wrong, but BS is hardly civil., and it makes for poor arguing when you come on so strongly that you "know" you're right, but you can't even present the facts that prove what you "know."

As far as I can tell you don't have any evidence either.  You seem to think media perception is evidence of a factual condition, and it's not.

p.s.  What you said isn't even true.  There's plenty of anti-illegal immigration coverage all over the media, unless we're going to pretend that suddenly Talk Radio isn't media, or Fox News... or CNN... Lou Dobbs anyone (granted he's not there anymore).  Media is a general term which could ever cover the internet.  Now, if you mean cable news, you'd be right about MSNBC, but what does what MSNBC airs have to do with that being a myth?

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Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2010, 06:29:17 PM »
If you're going to argue against someone else points, debate it with facts, not insults. If your temper is starting to get the better of you, take a little time out before posting.

Offline Lyell

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2010, 06:51:47 PM »
Personally I don't understand the Fourth Ammendment argument. It's invalid. State IDs are issued by and property of 'the state.' You cannot by law, and by consent of posessing said ID, deny any state official (read 'the police') that the license be turned over for any reason. It's not yours.

Racial profiling is a weak argument. This is just a rough guestimate but I'm willing to bet that ~99% of Arizona's illegal immigrants come in through Mexico and are of hispanic origins, simply by virtue of it being a border state with no oceanic ports.

Illegal. This is a word that the democratic party seems to be dodging. Illegal immigrant. They're here illegally. You're not stopping someone over spilled milk, you're stopping someone because you suspect they're committing a continuous crime. Comparing this law to Nazi practices is highly innaccurate. The Jewish were legal residents. The illegal immigrants are not. Arizona isn't even loading them up on trains to be gassed, they're just trying to get them out of the state.

What I wanna know is why I have to have a state issued ID to posses a concealed handgun, drive a vehicle, (supposedly) get a job, use my debit card, but not when it comes time to decide the fate of the country at the voting booths?

I don't have anything against the people who are here legally. My grandmother and about a quarter of my family are hispanic. They became legal U.S. citizens. What about it is so difficult that others insist on being here illegally?

Online DoomsdayTopic starter

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2010, 09:27:17 PM »
I will add this using falsified documents of any sort for ID is a crime so such people are breaking felonies. And these persons that are here ILLEGALLY are ILLEGAL in our nation breaking another law. Employers that hire them are breaking the law and should be severely fined and if they don't turn themselves around closed down. Why is this even a debate if your here under our laws and legal there should be no issue you will have proper identification? If not get the frak out of MY country your a criminal.

And I will like to note we need to close the 14th Amendment loophole that allows anyone born on American soil to be a citizen come on that is worded moronically what was for slaves to justifiably be made citizens to this travesty.

What.

The.

Fuck?

You don't think someone born on American soil should be an American?! I've been slapped on the wrist several times by Gods recently for flipping my lid, so I will refrain from saying anything besides that I'm very disappointed by sentiments like this, especially since I know that many misguided people agree with you.

What I REALLY hate, Lyell, is when people say "Hurr durr, illegal, shouldn't be here lulz".

Let's analyze why they're here, and why they're illegal.

WHY They're here.

Globalization is raping the Mexican economy.

Quote
  The 1994 imposition of NAFTA was particularly devastating. Just as Bill Clinton and the corporate elites did here, Mexico's ruling elites touted NAFTA as a magic elixir that would generate growth, create jobs, raise wages and eliminate the surge of Mexican migrants into the United States. They were horribly wrong:

    * Economic growth in Mexico has been anemic since '94, and the benefits of any growth have gone overwhelmingly to the wealthiest families.

    * Since NAFTA, Mexico has created less than a third of the millions of decent jobs it needs.

    * Average factory wages in Mexico have dropped by more than 5 percent under NAFTA.

    * Unemployment has jumped, and unskilled workers are paid only $5 a day.

    * U.S. agribusiness corporations have more than doubled their shipment of subsidized crops into Mexico, busting the price that indigenous farmers got for their production and displacing some 2 million peasant farmers from their land.

    * Huge agribusiness operations, many owned by U.S. investors, now control Mexican agricultural production and pay farmworkers under $2 an hour.

    * Since NAFTA passed, there has been a flood of business bankruptcies and takeovers in Mexico as predatory U.S. chains have moved in. U.S. corporations now control 40 percent of the country's formal jobs, with Wal-Mart reigning as the No. 1 employer.

    * Nineteen million more Mexicans live in poverty today than when NAFTA was passed.

    So, here's the deal: Thanks to Mexico's newly corporatized economy, wage earners there get poverty pay of $5 a day (about $1,600 a year), while a few hundred miles north, they might draw that much in an hour. What would you do?

http://www.truthout.org/article/jim-hightower-immigrants-come-here-because

Second, WHY are they illegal?

http://www.acslaw.org/taxonomy/term/1631

Because we only issue 5k visas a year for low-skill immigrants. Considering we used to allow 300k to 500k low-skill immigrants into the country a year, that means a lot of people can't get into the country that used to be. So in this instance of a good law being broken by bad people, we have a bad law breaking good people.

I mean, it's goddamn heartbreaking that people are demonizing these refugees, because that's basically what they are. Economic refugees. How can you fault them for wanting to come to the most advanced country in the west, a country that borders their own country? Isn't it selfish to say their children don't deserve to be Americans? It just really makes me sick.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 09:31:07 PM by Doomsday »

Online Vekseid

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2010, 09:31:09 PM »
Okay, Vekseid is prescribing a 24 hour cooldown time for this thread.

Offline Lyell

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2010, 06:25:09 PM »
Your opening statement in this thread was that "Racial profiling is now legal in Arizona." I was merely pointing out why it didn't constitute racial profiling and why Nazi practices was a poor comparison. I didn't say anything about people not deserving a better life or the right to be here. It breaks my heart that Mexico can't keep its citizens because thier fear of drug cartel related violence and national policies drive them to leave the nation. But shouldering the burden isn't going to fix it, nor is it going to make our situation any better. We still have to pay for the problem and if I've read my news reports right, the 'global economy' isn't doing so hot either.

Ruby has a point that I'd like to touch on a little more cautiously. 'Anchor babies' is the term I think is most commonly used. Yeah, it's sad. People are using children to get a foothold in the U.S. "Have a child in America! We'll give you a free house, a free car, free money, we'll fire an American and give you his job!" Okay, that might be stretching things a little.

Visas were not only limited in number, but also had the duration of thier validity reduced. Reports indicate it was in response to a price hike in Mexico's visas, but I can't be too sure. But you can't tell me that everyone crossing the border illegally are good people, just like I can't tell you that everyone crossing the border illegally are bad people. There are those who seek a better life and want to work hard for it. There are also people who seek to exploit the systems we have in place to protect our own. Can't forget about the drug trafficers or border violence either.


One thing that bothers me about all of this are the number of democratic policies that seem to surround the issue. The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, NAFTA and now the new propositions regarding the Path to Citizenship for current illegal aliens. This may just be dismissed as tin-foil hat fodder, but I believe a massive effort has come into play that's been at work for several decades. Regionally, the two major political parties have been typically separated by the northern and southern states. I know if the policies that kept me in the U.S. were being controlled by democrats, which way I would vote for. If I could vote. Which won't be a problem once I'm legalized. Again, this is probably the tin-foil hat talking, but I think the Democratic party has been seeking to swell the southern states to upset the typically Republican vote. They're trying to strong arm all the branches of our government, unique in that each branch overlaps one another in a 'checks and balances' format, which they would need for dramatic changes in the way our nation works. After that, I see several things going away, like the Bill of Rights.

Online Vekseid

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2010, 06:54:06 PM »
Ruby has a point that I'd like to touch on a little more cautiously. 'Anchor babies' is the term I think is most commonly used. Yeah, it's sad. People are using children to get a foothold in the U.S. "Have a child in America! We'll give you a free house, a free car, free money, we'll fire an American and give you his job!" Okay, that might be stretching things a little.

...

...this thread should be about the immigration law itself, and things directly related to it - claims of profiling, etc. If you want to start a discussion on anchor babies and undocumented children, please make a new thread, thank you.

Offline Lyell

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #45 on: May 06, 2010, 07:21:06 PM »
Sorry. I thought using it as a way to get out of the illegal alien status was directly relevant but I conceed to your point - stay on target.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #46 on: May 08, 2010, 01:22:14 PM »
For me this is not exactly an issue the officers of and within a state for years had the right to arrest criminals that are accusing of Federal charges, its actually necessary, if say a person guilty of espionage a Federal crime was in Anytown USA the Sheriff has the right and duty to arrest this person. Even though the crime is not anything a state officer should do. The same applies to other crimes.

As for questioning the party first the officer has to have a reason and the person cannot be a witness to a crime they are exempt, and in my view and this should not be odd if your a citizen or here legally you should have your identification on you. I have a state identification card and must have it to bank, proof of my identity for employment, cashing checks and it proves my residency and identity if necessary. And the state law that passed is simple you show identification and its legally issued your fine from a passport and visa to a green card to a drivers license or state identification card.

I will note I see their issues crime is shooting up, they are full of illegal immigrants (who are illegal and may have fake identification documents which are felonies in every state) and should not be in the US. It sucks but why are people so critical of enforcing the laws and some laws that are Arizona State laws protected under the 10th Amendment. It so happens due to geography that most of these persons are of hispanic origin in the case of Arizona. But other states have illegals from other nations including New York City and the the like. The Feds should have done their jobs then this would not be a state concern but I can't blame them for a well written law to do what they feel must be done.

Offline Jude

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #47 on: May 08, 2010, 04:23:28 PM »
You do realize that racial profiling, as a practice or a practical consequence, makes us less safe as a nation?  It isn't just about Civil Rights.  Whenever you limit your search criteria to a specific group of individuals, you do fewer impartial checks that don't fit your profile, allowing more of the people who don't fit the profile but are still guilty to slip through.  This opens the floodgates for illegals who aren't Mexican to live in Arizona and avoid scrutiny, one of which could eventually be a Muslim Terrorist.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 04:33:00 PM by Jude »

Offline Zakharra

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #48 on: May 08, 2010, 06:22:48 PM »
You do realize that racial profiling, as a practice or a practical consequence, makes us less safe as a nation?  It isn't just about Civil Rights.  Whenever you limit your search criteria to a specific group of individuals, you do fewer impartial checks that don't fit your profile, allowing more of the people who don't fit the profile but are still guilty to slip through.  This opens the floodgates for illegals who aren't Mexican to live in Arizona and avoid scrutiny, one of which could eventually be a Muslim Terrorist.

 It's not racial profiling. They can question anyone they think might be an illegal.

Offline Jude

Re: Seriously E? No "Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law" thread?
« Reply #49 on: May 08, 2010, 06:30:53 PM »
That would be why I said, "as a practice or practical consequence."  If you don't think that law enforcement agents that are serious about enforcing this law are going to unofficially racially profile, I have a house in Flint Michigan I'd like to sell you.