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Author Topic: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.  (Read 1874 times)

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Offline Prefect MosTopic starter

Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« on: April 24, 2010, 07:59:21 PM »
Is it just me... or are the Anti-gay activists starting to have to relay stretch things out in there own minds in order to justify there opinion?

Recently My home town Missoula Montana began a process of adding anti discrimination to rights to the books, Essentially this legislation has mostly to do with housing and restaurants. This has lead to a little controversy in Missoula as NotMybathroom.com will show.

I question at what point did the Anti-Gay movement start having to say, We don't Hate Gays, we love them.. we have friends coworkers, and even family that's gay, we just think that our rights are more important that equality. You might ask what nut case argument is being made this time?  In this particular instance its fantastic, because of the claim that this bill will allow men to go into the woman's bathroom, were they will rape little girls. Thats right, that's there supposed fear, never mind that Montana does not have any rules regarding bathrooms At least that's were there protested started.

One of my favorite parts of the argument that they make is how incredulously self conflicting that it is, At one point they talk about how much they love the freedom and liberties in the state of Montana, and take pride in smallness of government, and that adding to the city's ordinance and laws will take some of that away, take some freedom away, than Im not sure why they bring this up.. or how its connected, they bring up that Missoula needs to add to the protection of children, by making Exposure illegal in Missoula. Thats right boys and girls, in Missoula Public Nudity is perfectly legal, as long as you are not doing anything Overtly sexual... when caught.

But getting back to my point about why the Anti Gay movement claims to love gays.. this site professes it over and over again.. tells them the bible tells them they have to.. but at the same time.. the site seems to never actually state that homo sexual exist.. instead use terms like "Friends who CLAIM to live the homosexual lifestyle" or "Transgenders individuals ,  whatever that means"


Sorry that this rant is a little less organized than others... but it is a rant.. and I'm a bit at a loss for words. I myself am Bi Sexual, and this thinking pisses me the fuck off... especialy when they claim its a choice.. it isnt I do however belive that there are people out there that are bi gay.. or streight purely from Nature, as well as Nurture, im 90% sure that I fall into the Nurture catagory... but so... that dosnt change who I am.. and why should it be any different either way?

Offline Jude

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2010, 08:17:46 PM »
They're told by their religion to believe it's a sin, but I don't think that's the full extent of their homophobia.  People naturally fear and resent that which they do not understand and differs from themself.  This doesn't excuse their behavior so much as explain it.  Unfortunately fear inspires incredible irrationality, which leads to garbage like this.

If you want to do something about it the best thing you can possibly do as a gay male is to show up to some protests and interact with people in your community as a human being and not a gay stereotype.  Show them the ways in which you're like them instead of emphasizing how you're different, and sympathy overcomes fear of difference.

Offline Prefect MosTopic starter

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2010, 08:23:15 PM »
Are you sure... I thought the best way was to find some obscure way that they didnt follow the bible.. and show up at there weddings and funerals with signs telling them why god hates them :P Well.. at least thats how we got Fred Phelps to stop showing up in Missoula... it didnt hurt that the judge also found his hate speech to Paramount to assault.

Offline alxnjsh

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2010, 08:30:18 PM »
Sometimes showing up will only escalate the problems. Unfortunately when dealing with the fringe - such as those in the media - being at events is not a good format for discussion. I for one think that there are much more powerful ways to influence social change - voting, donating, organizing, etc.

Offline Brandon

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2010, 08:39:16 PM »
Seems like I've been doing a lot of mythbusting for my religion lately but here we go again. I cant speak for other religions but I do want to point out that in Roman Catholicism homosexuality is a sin but you do not hate the person for it. I want to make that very clear as well as the fact that I personally don't agree with it being a sin and have yet to hear a convincing argument of why it should be.

I have no doubt that what these people are doing is motivated by some irrational fear but I have noticed a trend on a few other adult related websites where hetero, homo, and bisexual people intermingle. The trend tends to be that homosexual people in the community call for equality because they feel somethings off. Yet even when they gain equality they keep asking for more. If possible I make it a point to shoot that thinking in the foot and then throw it off a bridge. Equality means equal, not a little better then the other group(s)

That all said, I fully agree with Jude's approach. Show them how your similar from them and it will mess with their heads a bit. Showing them that your a normal person that happens to be gay/bi rather then that gay/bi guy that seems normal

Offline Prefect MosTopic starter

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2010, 08:47:57 PM »
I would like to point out that in Catholicisim , in no way is homosexuality a sin.. merely acting on those Impulses, and doing homosexual acts.

Please do not get me wrong. I know that religion is important to a lot of people, and that it does help people, Im not in any way shape or form Anti religion. I do think that churches and clergy should be taxed, but thats a different argument.  I would believe if I could, its just not in me to, There are Religious Zelot Atheists out there, that have the same idiomatic response to things out there that many Christians do, though the trigger points are different.. one of my friends seems exactly like one of those televangelists preaching till he almost passes out when talking about Linux..

To your last point.... every time we get a little bit of equality.. we ask for more... Were asking for Parity.. not to be closer to equal, were ALMOST there, there does need to be a period of time.. were there is some anti discrimination protection in place in order to bring society to equality faster, but over time I think that part of the legislation should be dropped in the name of freedom in the culture.. but from a legal stand point Marriage and the Military are the only two things left.. and to be perfectly honest I think Marriage needs to be reformed from the base up.

Offline Prefect MosTopic starter

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2010, 08:50:10 PM »
Sometimes showing up will only escalate the problems. Unfortunately when dealing with the fringe - such as those in the media - being at events is not a good format for discussion. I for one think that there are much more powerful ways to influence social change - voting, donating, organizing, etc.

This is Fred Phelps i was talking about, and it was soon after Laramie, sometimes Action must be taken.

Offline alxnjsh

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2010, 08:58:45 PM »
Seems like I've been doing a lot of mythbusting for my religion lately but here we go again. I cant speak for other religions but I do want to point out that in Roman Catholicism homosexuality is a sin but you do not hate the person for it. I want to make that very clear as well as the fact that I personally don't agree with it being a sin and have yet to hear a convincing argument of why it should be.

I always find the argument of hating the sin not the sinner to be a weak argument. I myself am also Roman Catholic - elementary, high school, undergrad...Heck, I was named after a Pope. I have an uncle that is a Brother. I've got several dozen books in my library on Catholicism. I have a patron saint. Frankly most people attending Mass are sinning. No one goes to Confession any more which is a requirement prior to taking the host. I don't understand in any way your "mythbusting." There is no mythbusting being done. I think everyone in the world knows what Catholics think about gays. Please don't try and take a high and mighty road of framing it all in love.

Other Catholic loves:
I hate that you're a Jew, but I still love you.
I hate that you're divorced, but I still love you.
I hate that you XXXX, but I still love you.

I hate that many Catholics pick and choose which sins/grievances they want to demonize and which sins/grievances they ignore (war, death penalty, immigration, etc.).

This is Fred Phelps i was talking about, and it was soon after Laramie, sometimes Action must be taken.

Fred Phelps deserves no further airtime. The best antidote to him is Michael Moore and the gay bus - if you haven't seen that clip, it is hilarious!!!

Offline Brandon

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2010, 09:12:43 PM »
I would like to point out that in Catholicisim , in no way is homosexuality a sin.. merely acting on those Impulses, and doing homosexual acts.

You are absolutely right there, my wording was off but I was also concentrating on the "Dont hate them for it" part. I applaud you for that

To your last point.... every time we get a little bit of equality.. we ask for more... Were asking for Parity.. not to be closer to equal, were ALMOST there, there does need to be a period of time.. were there is some anti discrimination protection in place in order to bring society to equality faster, but over time I think that part of the legislation should be dropped in the name of freedom in the culture.. but from a legal stand point Marriage and the Military are the only two things left.. and to be perfectly honest I think Marriage needs to be reformed from the base up.

I agree with you on both points. Marriage does need to be reformed so it becomes a purely religious ceremony/union and the legal act should be called civil unions that have the same rights as marriages do now.

The Military is just as discriminatory as it is sexist. Eventually it accepted other races as high standing officers, NCOs, and soldiers. I feel with the right pressure from the government it will adapt over time so that gays, bisexuals, transexuals, and multisexuals could be fully accepted as well. I think the issue of sexism is the bigger problem though and the place to start. If they cant allow women in front line combat positions how could they ever allow gays? That debates been done though

Quote
I always find the argument of hating the sin not the sinner to be a weak argument. I myself am also Roman Catholic - elementary, high school, undergrad...Heck, I was named after a Pope. I have an uncle that is a Brother. I've got several dozen books in my library on Catholicism. I have a patron saint. Frankly most people attending Mass are sinning. No one goes to Confession any more which is a requirement prior to taking the host. I don't understand in any way your "mythbusting." There is no mythbusting being done. I think everyone in the world knows what Catholics think about gays. Please don't try and take a high and mighty road of framing it all in love.

Other Catholic loves:
I hate that you're a Jew, but I still love you.
I hate that you're divorced, but I still love you.
I hate that you XXXX, but I still love you.

I hate that many Catholics pick and choose which sins/grievances they want to demonize and which sins/grievances they ignore (war, death penalty, immigration, etc.).

I'll buy that you think its a weak argument but if you're honestly more learned then I am when it comes to the faith youll know that thats what the faith teaches us. Like always we still have to make our own decisions and some people do choose to ignore the "dont hate them" part. There is a large assumption from Athiests and other religions that we freely demonize people because thats what our faith tells us to do. You and I know thats false, the people that demonize others choose to do that against what the faith teaches. That is what I was mythbusting

Offline Prefect MosTopic starter

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2010, 09:21:49 PM »
Ohh It is one of the best MM Bits there is.

I would like to point out that this is not merely Christians, there are Anti Homosexual Atheists out there, Wiccins (Ahh... you got to love the Neo-Nazi Wikkins... there so aweome I want to fucking stab my eyes out with a spoon.)

My Original argument had nothing said about Religion, though the Notmybathroom.com is stating that there on the side of god with this one. Mearly that in america, because we have freedom of religion, you have to also have freedom from religion, as any religion point of view, there is another religion that will contridect it.  For laws in THIS country, there needs to be PURELY secular reasons for them without any religious evidence entered into the equation.   With a lot of Issues people state This Has Been True Since The Romans. Well.. sorta.. most of those changes to behavior were made during the roman holy empire by the Catholics or other christian religions, and only necessarily true as a societal norm by a dictatorial form of amorphous government that transcended boarders and set itself up to be impossible to truly conqueror until the reforms as Martin Luther..  so most of the time you cant use sociocultural norms as justification either.

 And to your last point Brandon. It took me time to know about the vocal minority. Trust me when your anything but christian, in middle school, in this country, there will be a vile hate speech given to you by a christian who only leaves your impression of the whole religion as without compassion and hypocritical, cause , for the most part, the good ones are meek, quiet, and far too caring to try and stuff all the wrong parts of the bible down your throat.

Offline Serephino

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2010, 09:26:32 PM »
I'm not an expert on the Catholic faith, but I've heard that gay priests are now allowed, so being gay is not a sin, but acting on it is.  It makes absolutely no sense to me, which would be why I'm not Catholic. 

On this issue....  Christians do tend to make the most fuss; yet another reason I'm not Christian, but other religions including Atheists aren't exactly innocent.  I think people tend to fear what they don't understand.  I don't often agree with Jude, but I do like his suggestion.  Get involved and show people that you're a person just like them. 

Offline Jude

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2010, 09:29:57 PM »
There are good Christians out there who don't agree with the way homosexuals live, think it's wrong, and can still treat homosexuals with the dignity they deserve as human beings.  I've met a lot of them on E.  There's good Christians all over.  Brandon for one, I think is a good Christian who frequents E.  It's good to know that despite a lot of the negativity that we (non-Christians) do encounter from them, there are plenty of good people out there too.

Offline alxnjsh

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2010, 09:30:49 PM »
I'm not an expert on the Catholic faith, but I've heard that gay priests are now allowed, so being gay is not a sin, but acting on it is.  It makes absolutely no sense to me, which would be why I'm not Catholic. 


{forgive me for straying momentarily from the topic} It has to do with the main belief that every sexual act must be open to the opportunity for life...same reason to not use contraception.

Offline Prefect MosTopic starter

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2010, 09:31:14 PM »

On this issue....  Christians do tend to make the most fuss; yet another reason I'm not Christian, but other religions including Atheists aren't exactly innocent.  I think people tend to fear what they don't understand.  I don't often agree with Jude, but I do like his suggestion.  Get involved and show people that you're a person just like them. 


Im going to defend Christians on this one.. Christians are the biggest religious group in this country and thus there going to have higher numbers of bigoted load mouthed douche bags, not b percentage, but because of it.  We Atheists do have a number of load mouthed douche bags (of witch I am one), but only because we are threatend by the other douchebags that want to shit Christianity were it simply does not belong.

Offline Brandon

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2010, 09:40:36 PM »
@Sparkling angel: I can not confirm or deny the existance of gay priests. I've never met one, but then I've also met maybe two dozen seperate priests and there are thousands all over the world. I have also never expressed interest in becoming a priest as the vow of chastity was to much for me :P

Brandon for one, I think is a good Catholic who frequents E. 

Fixed!

I dont mean to make it about religion either, but as I said I was mythbusting something that I felt Jude had implied. A lot of people around the forums seem to misunderstand things that are subtle but important differences and I kind of like teaching them where they are wrong.

Offline Jude

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2010, 09:47:42 PM »
Catholics are Christians... Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity.

Offline Prefect MosTopic starter

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2010, 09:51:35 PM »
Im confused ... who the hell said otherwise?

Also I would like to point out that as early as 1102 the Benedictines have been trying to change the churches view, as they were charged with solving the problem, and they came to the conclusion that it was so perelevent in the human and animal kingdoms, and so deeply routed that It was a simple matter  human nature and part of gods plan.

Offline Jude

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2010, 09:59:48 PM »
I thought that was what Brandon was referring to.

Also where are you getting that thing about 1102 from?  I'm pretty sure we didn't know how common homosexuality is in nature until recent years.

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Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2010, 10:01:04 PM »
{forgive me for straying momentarily from the topic} It has to do with the main belief that every sexual act must be open to the opportunity for life...same reason to not use contraception.

Also the reason masturbation is considered a sin, or a misuse of the sexual faculty. (also straying off topic).

Offline Prefect MosTopic starter

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2010, 10:05:54 PM »
No... we knew before Christianity, and knew up until the Victorian era. the Edwardian and Victorian periods , were more influential against reason than people think.. also the church never relay released that information too publicly, If you have an agenda you want to sale, it doesn't matter how much evidence that shows your wrong.. if you can quiet the researches with but a note.

It doesn't mean what the reason it... its still arcane and only a religious practice that goes anathema to the reality of what humans are.

Offline Doomsday

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2010, 07:34:04 AM »
It's amazing the amount of mental gymnastics anti-gay advocates will go through... They take the gold every year.

The arguments I usually hear are along the lines of "Well, we want to protect our kids", and then when that breaks down it's "Well, gays are usually depressed, addicted to drugs, etc." and when that breaks down, they'll throw out a few more failures. There really is no secular reason to be against gays.

Offline Silk

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2010, 07:48:37 AM »
I am against the terms here talking about  atheists, yes there are atheists that are anti-homosexual, but what does their atheism got to do with their views on homosexuality, religion is different because it has direct scriptures on the subject.

Calling someone a anti-homosexual atheist is like saying someone is a anti-homosexual Manchester united supporter, or anti-homosexual Pepsi drinker, the two things just do not relate to each other in any form.

Offline Doomsday

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2010, 08:05:04 AM »
Secular does not mean atheist. Atheism is the disbelief in the divine, secular just means non-religious.

Offline Jude

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2010, 09:56:41 AM »
Popular misconception Doomsday, there isn't just one definition for atheism.  Some atheists define it as a lack of belief in god (i.e. a blank slate - no claim made) and others define it as a belief that god does not exist, which is making a claim.  The latter does not describe all atheists, despite how often atheists are pigeon-holed into representing that point of view (even though they don't).

Offline Prefect MosTopic starter

Re: Time for another Prefect Mos Rant.
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2010, 02:40:37 PM »
I am against the terms here talking about  atheists, yes there are atheists that are anti-homosexual, but what does their atheism got to do with their views on homosexuality, religion is different because it has direct scriptures on the subject.

Calling someone a anti-homosexual atheist is like saying someone is a anti-homosexual Manchester united supporter, or anti-homosexual Pepsi drinker, the two things just do not relate to each other in any form.

Sorry, but the difference is in how and what arguments they make against homosexuality. For the most part the atheists that are anti gay, are against just about everything, and can usualy be easily dismissed, or simply come from a bygone indo European era.

Heres the thing, Hate alll you want mother fuckers, its your right as an American to be a bigoted son a bitch, however the united states government has charge to try and make sure all Americans have the basic freedoms to succeed . YOU DO NT HAVE THE RIGHT TO NOT BE OFFENDED, YOU HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO OFFEND.