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Author Topic: O_O...The President of Poland is dead.  (Read 1339 times)

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Offline WolfyTopic starter


Offline Schrödinger

Re: O_O...The President of Poland is dead.
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2010, 03:48:24 AM »
Momento mori. It's rather shocking to learn these folks have died so shortly after their own commemoration of the WW2 deaths with Putin and other Russian officials attending the ceremonies. Tusk and Komorowski have a lot to contend with, and I certainly hope Poland will overcome their loss, and that the nation returns to political stability soon.

I'm very surprised how Russia, nay, Putin himself, has taken such a prominent role in the retrieval and identification of the bodies, and of the forensics of the crash; however, as far as I know, it is only laudable.

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Re: O_O...The President of Poland is dead.
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2010, 11:39:18 AM »
The worrisome thing - and this is not from a conspiracy standpoint, but from a political stability standpoint - is how many of the government officials died in this crash.

Offline Cecily

Re: O_O...The President of Poland is dead.
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2010, 11:47:54 AM »
Presidential and governmental figures:
1. Lech Kaczyński, President of Poland
2. Maria Kaczyńska, First Lady of Poland
3. Mariusz Handzlik, Undersecretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
4. Ryszard Kaczorowski, the last President of the Polish government-in-exile
5. Andrzej Kremer, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs
6. Tomasz Merta, Deputy Minister of Culture
7. Sławomir Skrzypek, President of the National Bank of Poland
8. Władysław Stasiak, Chief of the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
9. Aleksander Szczygło, Head of the National Security Bureau
10. Paweł Wypych, Secretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland

Military figures:
1. Lieutenant General Andrzej Błasik, Commander of the Polish Air Force
2. Major General Tadeusz Buk, Commander of the Polish Land Forces
3. General Franciszek Gągor, Chief of the General Staff of the Polish Armed Forces
4. Vice Admiral Andrzej Karweta, Commander of the Polish Navy
5. Stanislaw Komorowski, Deputy Minister of National Defence
6. Lieutenant General Bronislaw Kwiatkowski, Commander of the Polish Armed Forces Operational Command
7. Major General Włodzimierz Potasiński, Commander of the Polish Special Forces
8. Brigadier General Kazimierz Gilarski, Commander of the Warsaw Garrison

Six of the seven highest military commanders (the Commander-in-Chief - President, the Chief of the General Staff and all four Branch Commanders) of the Polish Armed Forces were killed at once. The Minister of Defence, Bogdan Klich, was not on the plane.

Senate members:
1. Krystyna Bochenek, Deputy Speaker of the Senate
2. Janina Fetlińska
3. Stanisław Zając

Sejm members:
1. Leszek Deptuła
2. Grzegorz Dolniak
3. Grażyna Gęsicka
4. Przemysław Gosiewski
5. Izabela Jaruga-Nowacka
6. Sebastian Karpiniuk
7. Aleksandra Natalli-Świat
8. Krzysztof Putra, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm
9. Arkadiusz Rybicki
10. Jerzy Szmajdziński, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm
11. Jolanta Szymanek-Deresz
12. Zbigniew Wassermann
13. Wiesław Woda
14. Edward Wojtas

Religious figures:
1. Archbishop Miron Chodakowski, Orthodox Ordinary of the Polish Army
2. Tadeusz Płoski, bishop of the Military Ordinariate of the Polish Army
3. Ryszard Rumianek, Rector of the Cardinal Stefan Wyszyński University
4. Bronisław Gostomski, Reverend of St Andrew Bobola Polish Church in London

Others:
1. Janusz Kochanowski, Polish Ombudsman for Citizen Rights
2. Janusz Kurtyka, historian and President of the Institute of National Remembrance
3. Piotr Nurowski, President of the Polish Olympic Committee
4. Maciej Płażyński, President of the Polish Community Association, former Speaker of the Sejm
5. Andrzej Przewoźnik, Secretary-General of the Council for the Protection of Struggle and Martyrdom Sites
6. Anna Walentynowicz, one of major activists of the free trade union Solidarity in the late 1970s and early 1980s
7. Janusz Zakrzeński, actor

And 50 more people.

It's really a tragedy. It really is shocking to see how these sort of things can happen, especially when it does seem that it was most likely an accident. I have a friend that is living in Poland, he told me of the news the morning it happened. Even I just feel devastated...it must be heartbreaking for Polish people all over the world regardless of political affiliation just because of how many people died. It feels like such a waste.

Offline Spell

Re: O_O...The President of Poland is dead.
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2010, 12:06:34 PM »
The worrisome thing - and this is not from a conspiracy standpoint, but from a political stability standpoint - is how many of the government officials died in this crash.

As for Government figures, there were ten. Among those were the President of the National Bank of Poland, two deputy ministers the Head of the National Security Bureau, Secretary  and Undersecretary of State and Chief of the Office of the President, Lech Kaczynski.

Three senate members, fourteen members of the lower Polish Parliament and 8 military figures did not survive the crash, six of which were among the seven highest military commanders of Poland.

The other passengers included Religious Figures, including the Archbishop, crew members, and other notable Polish individuals.
(Refer to Cecily or Wikipedia for the full list)


I have been following all the news as much as possible, ever since I have heard this has happened, since I am half Polish. I am grateful for all the compassion and sympathy all countries have offered Poland, they mean a lot to Poland. The country is in a mass state of grief, if I recall correctly all TV channels have quit broadcasting their regular programme schedule and instead try to provide as much information and support to the Polish people. Villages all around the country have been reported to be empty, as everyone is following the news. Currently the Presidents body has been found, and was transported to Warsaw, where thousand of Poles arrives to pay their respects.


It certainly is a black day in the history of Poland, and the country has suffered another heavy blow in a short time. What I am worried about most is to get the county back up to it's feet, morally speaking of course. It will take quite some time to heal the wound received from this blow, but I think that Unity is one of the stronger points of the Poles, and that with that unity the country will rise back up to it's feet again.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 12:07:53 PM by Spell »

Offline RubySlippers

Re: O_O...The President of Poland is dead.
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2010, 12:28:33 PM »
I'm an American of half-Pilish descent and was just want to say it was their fault putting all the leaders on ONE aircraft with their families was just stupid.

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Re: O_O...The President of Poland is dead.
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2010, 12:32:59 PM »
Um - excuse me? O_o

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Re: O_O...The President of Poland is dead.
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2010, 12:35:24 PM »
Poorly phrased, but a point I was considering myself. My understanding was that for precisely this sort of thing that when large numbers of officials travel, they should travel in smaller groups. That way one horrible accident doesn't decapitate a government / organisation.

Offline WolfyTopic starter

Re: O_O...The President of Poland is dead.
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2010, 04:55:49 PM »
Poorly phrased, but a point I was considering myself. My understanding was that for precisely this sort of thing that when large numbers of officials travel, they should travel in smaller groups. That way one horrible accident doesn't decapitate a government / organisation.

Wasn't it also said that they were supposed to update their air-craft, but didn't? o-o

Offline Sabby

Re: O_O...The President of Poland is dead.
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2010, 05:42:45 PM »
And theres always the chance that foul play was involved... not meaning to inject conspiracy theorism into something this tragic, but... well, an airplane went down and took pretty much the entire establishment with it, leaving an entire country in desperate need of new power figures.

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Re: O_O...The President of Poland is dead.
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2010, 10:20:13 AM »
All I can say is that I was floored when I heard this news.  This is an absolutely horrible tragedy for the Polish people, and I cannot even begin to imagine the chaos that would ensue if such a thing happened here in the United States.   That kind of a tragedy is what breeds a societal and political shift within a country, and it will be quite interesting to see who steps up to fill the various voids left by the crash.

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Re: O_O...The President of Poland is dead.
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2010, 11:35:15 AM »
Poorly phrased, but a point I was considering myself. My understanding was that for precisely this sort of thing that when large numbers of officials travel, they should travel in smaller groups. That way one horrible accident doesn't decapitate a government / organisation.

Yeah, talk about putting all your eggs in one basket. Then again, it's my understanding that our own President holds meetings and conferences and whatnot in the air as well. These are busy men, and there are only 24 hours in the day. The planes that are normally used for AF1 purposes are not necessarily always the safest aircraft, so such a thing could happen to the US. I hope that the countries around the world will look at this and take steps to amend protocol to lessen the blow of such a disaster in the future.

This could have happened to any country in the world. My heart goes out to Poland.

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Re: O_O...The President of Poland is dead.
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2010, 10:48:04 PM »
It does seem a bit odd that they would put the major portion of the government in one plane.
It's quite tragic for the country and the people that have to reconstruction everything because of this.
I guess there is something to be said for segregating the officials when traveling and what not.
I hadn't heard anything about foul play, but I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be that way after
all the investigations are complete.

Offline Illun

Re: O_O...The President of Poland is dead.
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2010, 12:29:55 AM »
Yeah, talk about putting all your eggs in one basket. Then again, it's my understanding that our own President holds meetings and conferences and whatnot in the air as well. These are busy men, and there are only 24 hours in the day. The planes that are normally used for AF1 purposes are not necessarily always the safest aircraft, so such a thing could happen to the US. I hope that the countries around the world will look at this and take steps to amend protocol to lessen the blow of such a disaster in the future.

This could have happened to any country in the world. My heart goes out to Poland.

Actually, this is not the case. While the US President DOES hold meetings and conferences aboard AF1, there are measures and requirements in place to prevent such things from occurring. For one, the President and Vice President never travel together, except in extremely rare circumstances, during which the Speaker of the House is not allowed to be with them. There are further safety regulations keeping the Speaker and President Pro-tem of the Senate from being at too high of risk of going out with someone above them in the line of succession. That said, I don't think there is any such policy for the cabinet offices, since they regularly meet with the President, including on AF1. To do something equivalent to this to the US would require extremely coordinated military action. I have heard that there were even policies in place to prevent a nuclear strike from decapitating the government, presumably by keeping someone in the chain outside of DC at all times, though this might have gone away after the Cold War ended.

Offline Xanatos

Re: O_O...The President of Poland is dead.
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2010, 01:05:07 AM »
I saw a program which dealt all about Air Force One, and while much of the craft is Top Secret, what the program was allowed to speak about and imply about basically stated the craft is probably the most advanced craft on the planet. I am fully confident the craft has ECM, ECCM, chaffe, to name only a few things; God knows what else that thing is packing in defenses. It also never flies alone, NEVER; it always has a fighter escort of at least two Jets. While I do not claim it is invincible, it would take one hell of an effort to even come close to taking that craft down. Also, before it ever leaves the ground, the military coordinates with local government, be it foreign or domestic, for its arrival and ALWAYS has an American military presence in the air and on the ground prepared for security and emergency purposes. Air Force 1 is probably the safest place to be.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2010, 01:07:29 AM by Xanatos »

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Re: O_O...The President of Poland is dead.
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2010, 01:20:50 AM »
A fighter escort isn't going to be much good against a microburst. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microburst#Danger_to_aircraft )

Offline Illun

Re: O_O...The President of Poland is dead.
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2010, 02:44:19 AM »
A fighter escort isn't going to be much good against a microburst. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microburst#Danger_to_aircraft )
Which is why there are are contingency plans that include having the next in line far away.

We actually had one of those hit here. The weathermen had a hard time getting people to understand it wasn't a tornado. It knocked the entire door area of the local Target in, ripped the roof off a building over a hill on the opposite side of the Target, and did nothing to the Wal-Mart across the street. Target lived up to its name that night. Fortunately it was closed and nobody was there.