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Author Topic: Legalize it NOW!  (Read 9817 times)

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Offline Sabby

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2010, 07:26:49 PM »
I'm speaking as the only person I know in my age group that doesn't do a drug of any sort, and most of my friends, including my brother, are potheads if ever you saw one.

From the little reading I've done, and my (often baffling and hilarious) experienced around stoned individuals, its banning is really an over reaction. Booze and smokes are more harmful. I can't stand the stench of a bong (I gag and water at the eyes) but I can't stand the taste of beer and the stench of tobacco either.

What I always end up asking myself is this... is it still illegal because of its demonizing, or because no one who's Pro-Pot can seem to organize a proper movement for more then 20 minutes without checking out their hands? xD

Online Doomsday

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2010, 07:30:58 PM »
Hey... I don't do pot either. Last time I did was about a year ago, and I have no designs to smoke any time soon. :P

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2010, 07:45:57 PM »
Mainly the reason marijuana is not legal is because there is no real reason to make it legal.  The only real viable reason is to legalize the substance and put a vice tax on it in order to generate revenue.  That argument isnít really enough to overcome tradition.  Eventually though marijuana will be legalized as it becomes more decriminalized with passing generations.  These arguments may be tossed up as reasons for its legalization, but in truth itís the simple sway of public opinion.  Marijuana has slowly been growing more accepted among the general population over the past few generations.

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Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #53 on: February 24, 2010, 07:51:34 PM »
Making it legal would take a lot of money away from drug barons and the like. Making it legal would ease the strain arresting potheads would put on the legal system and there would be big saving by the government for not having to care for them while they were in the system.

The American government could make so much money through taxing it, the only real reason why they haven't legalised it is because they are getting something personal on the side in exchange for suppressing it. *shrugs*

Edit - and saying the drug is more accepted in later generations is ridiculous. It's only been the last three generations that have thought it was wrong. Up until 1916 you could by cocaine from Harrods.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 07:54:45 PM by Eden »

Online Doomsday

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #54 on: February 24, 2010, 07:57:47 PM »
Mainly the reason marijuana is not legal is because there is no real reason to make it legal.  The only real viable reason is to legalize the substance and put a vice tax on it in order to generate revenue.  That argument isnít really enough to overcome tradition.  Eventually though marijuana will be legalized as it becomes more decriminalized with passing generations.  These arguments may be tossed up as reasons for its legalization, but in truth itís the simple sway of public opinion.  Marijuana has slowly been growing more accepted among the general population over the past few generations.

It seems that you're arguing in favor of capitalism, in stead of liberty. Keeping it illegal because it's not doing you any good is not justification for keeping it illegal.

And as Eden said, the 'tradition' you speak of is very young. It would die quickly, I bet.

Offline Rora

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2010, 08:02:12 PM »
First off let me say that no I do not any way do drugs and this includes smoking pot. That being said I am definitely all for the legalization of marijuana. Almost everyone I know smokes or is in some way involved in marijuana, which has many medical advantages. Some of which are:
*ease of arthritis, body aches, headaches, migraine, chronic pain, menstrual cramps,etc...
*helps dull pain for people with AIDS, cancer of every kind, etc...all in regards to treatment
*helps fix chemical imbalances such as bipolarism, schizophrenia, ADD, ADHD, etc...
*cachexia, spasms, epilepsy, multiple sclerosis, etc...
Mariajuana also has many other economic purposes as well:
*it can be used as a gas substance instead of oil
*is easy to grow and has a wide market of interest
*can be used to create clothes, textiles, cosmetics, foodstuffs, insulation, paints, and animal feed, not to mention it is environmentally friendly. Not to mention the fact that marijuana use in and of itself is not any more dangerous then lighting up a cigarette. I am adamantly against drugs of any kind, however, I do feel as though marijuana cannot be considered a drug if the use of cigarettes is not considered to be drug use. The U.S spends more money a year fighting marijuana then any other drug and I believe that this is senseless because it is the least of the world's problems in connections to dangerous drugs.

Offline Moreth

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #56 on: February 24, 2010, 08:30:24 PM »
Unfortunately, there are too many careers and reputations tied up with keeping it illegal. Don't fool yourselves either, there is a great deal of money involved with arresting people and putting them through the corrections system. I don't think we will ever see it legalized in our generation. Wish it was different.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #57 on: February 24, 2010, 08:43:07 PM »
Arguing for Capitalism?  Odd since I did not make an argument.  Someone asked why marijuana was not currently legal with these arguments being presented.  I responded that the arguments being presented were ďshakyĒ at best and would be unable to overcome tradition.  Perhaps tradition was the wrong word where precedent should have been used.  Once something is a law or legal precedent, then it becomes a lot harder to overcome.  Compelling reason and/or evidence plus public opinion are needed in order to overturn the decision.

Also arguing for capitalism does not mean someone is not arguing for liberty.  A few could make the argument that capitalism is very much an advocate of liberty.  The tactic youíre employing is similar to people that tack ďcommunistĒ to everything they donít like.  Negative connotations are not required here.

As for removing money from drug barons, the same could be said for legalizing any number of substances.  Meth to deflate the income of biker gangs, cocaine and heroin to fight the terrorists (or insert random bad guy), or open the doors to controlled substances to drive the price of pharmaceuticals down.  The argument holds little water because the logic is simply make it legal so we donít have to spend money fighting against it. 

Do note that I never said the tradition is long standing and that I did say that as generations follow, marijuana would likely become legal.  As for it being a ridiculous statement, once a generation bans the drug and subsequent ones begin to feel less strongly about the ban then it is a valid statement.  There is a downward trend in the desire for marijuana to be illegal, hence subsequent generations.

The medicinal argument is always humorous, because most of the people pushing for legalization have no intention of using medicinal properties.  Conclusively, so far as I am aware, marijuana was found to be effective in relieving nausea of cancer patients undergoing radiation therapy.  Cancer patients do have access to a pill version of marijuana as do many others suffering from illnesses relieved by the medication.  Many of the ones listed though are inconclusive and/or associative.  Years are spent conducting clinical trials on a single medication for a specific illness, so I doubt marijuana was studied on all such conditions.  Keep in mind that alcohol was one time considered a miracle elixir to cure many ills and indeed seemed to have such properties. 

Online Doomsday

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #58 on: February 24, 2010, 08:59:10 PM »
medicinal argument is always humorous, because most of the people pushing for legalization have no intention of using medicinal properties.  Conclusively, so far as I am aware, marijuana was found to be effective in relieving nausea of cancer patients undergoing radiation therapy.  Cancer patients do have access to a pill version of marijuana as do many others suffering from illnesses relieved by the medication.  Many of the ones listed though are inconclusive and/or associative.  Years are spent conducting clinical trials on a single medication for a specific illness, so I doubt marijuana was studied on all such conditions.  Keep in mind that alcohol was one time considered a miracle elixir to cure many ills and indeed seemed to have such properties.

This is laughable at best and offensive at worst. http://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=61581.msg2774729#msg2774729 Third paragraph.

Offline Zeitgeist

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #59 on: February 24, 2010, 09:03:43 PM »
I'd like to reiterate. Careful what you wish for. Just because it is legalized doesn't mean its going to be one big smoke up party. The government will tax, regulate and control it. Is that what we really want?

So instead of getting hit for a petty misdemeanor and fine, you'll go to jail for tax evasion along side Al Capone. Yeah, you can set up some common sense rules. But by definition committed pot smokers break the rules, its largely a counter culture mindset.

I recognize there are medicinal values, I recognize its pretty much harmless, but I think it is a bit naive to think that just because you legalize it will mean you'll have complete freedom to use, distribute and sell without the government getting their hands in it.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #60 on: February 24, 2010, 09:25:40 PM »
So, er, this thread seems to be losing its mellow. It needs to hang on to that. :)

Offline Kane GunlockTopic starter

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #61 on: February 24, 2010, 09:29:00 PM »
So, er, this thread seems to be losing its mellow. It needs to hang on to that. :)


Indeed loosen up folks love each other smoke up or if thats not your thing act like your high lets have good time

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #62 on: February 24, 2010, 10:10:58 PM »
If people had a desire to see patients benefit from medicinal marijuana, then they would press for marijuana begin accepted as a controlled substance.  Making it legal to the public is far more difficult to accomplish so by doing so a person is simply making it more improbable for patients to receive that help.  Therefore, the argument for full legalization based on medicinal purposes makes no sense. 

As for your glaucoma, Iím sorry for your condition.  That does not make my statement laughable nor offensive though.  Your condition would benefit more from public insurance or free medical care, not legalizing marijuana.

Offline Serephino

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #63 on: February 24, 2010, 10:15:38 PM »
I think that any arguments made against not legalizing marijuana could also be said for alcohol and cigarettes.  I myself don't use it, but I know a few people that do.  Like anything else, it's all about how you use it.  I have a friend that smokes it once in a while with friends and hasn't really suffered any major negative effects. 

On the other hand, I know some serious pot heads.  They use it as a crutch to escape from life.  They don't have any ambition to do anything, they just want to sit and smoke pot all day.  That's bad, but again, some people, including the ones I'm talking about here, use alcohol to escape from their problems.

I'm not hugely against legalizing it.  I know there will be people out there who would abuse it, but anything can be abused, including over the counter meds. 

And as Rora said, hemp can be used for many other things besides smoking it.  I once got curious and did a little research.  The marijuana you smoke has a high level of THC because they're unfertilized female plants.  Hemp that is grown commercially and not separated does not contain enough of the chemical to get you high, and there are so many things that can be done with it...  Even if you're against using it as a drug, it makes absolutely no sense to ban hemp period.

Offline auroraChloe

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #64 on: February 24, 2010, 10:19:33 PM »
Unlike inebriation you loose cognitive function because the setting around you changes to something its not. With inebriation you still retain cognitive functions no matter how drunk you are but they are limited by the amount of alcohol in your bloodstream. 

"Although usually grouped with other hallucinogens, marijuana rarely causes hallucinations...  "  (reference)


have you ever been stoned?  have you ever been drunk? 
i have been both and believe me, cognitive function while under the influence of alcohol is a LOT more impaired. 


and really....  drunk drivers kill more people than stoned drivers ever thought of. 

it won't be legalized for a long time yet.  big tobacco and alcohol don't want to be loosing their profits now.  it IS all about the benjamin$

at the very least it should be decriminalized.  smoking a joint is a far cry from axe murderer. 

(and damn this thread moves fast !)

Offline Trieste

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Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #65 on: February 24, 2010, 10:30:40 PM »
Oh, that reminds me.

Brandon, caffeine causes hallucinations and delusions, also. And yet...

Offline Brandon

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #66 on: February 24, 2010, 10:39:58 PM »
I realize it's an anecdote, and I state just as much, so take it for what its' worth. Also, that part where you said there were no long-term studies of marijuana on the human body... Well... Yeah. "Overall, by comparison with other drugs used mainly for Ďrecreationalí purposes, cannabis could be rated to be a relatively safe drug." According to Oxford Pharmacology, so take it for what its' worth :P

Thats a long term study, not life long which is what I was talking about.

Quote
You say "The reason why laws are in place is because someone was doing something they shouldn't have done". Who gets to decide what is something 'they shouldn't have done'? Who gets that arbitrary power, and who decides that it's right? Are you implying that marijuana is bad because it's illegal? And that it's illegal because it's bad?

I like how you imply that legalizing marijuana means absolute chaos and anarchy. Yeah. I too am a fan of taking an absolute worst case scenario and even then blowing it way out of proportion.

Then you say "What I'm saying here is to much of anything can be bad for you and for our society". I certainly can't argue with that. Too much water, and you drown or suffer from water poisoning (yes, this actually does happen). Too much oxygen and you'll suffocate. Moderation is key, but do you think everyone who smokes marijuana is automatically using a pound of the stuff per day? You assume that people will not be able to moderate themselves and thus need the government to protect them. Pretty weak, I think.

I agree that if it does become legalized, it will be taxed. Not to say I think it should be; I have no thoughts on that as of right now. But I do believe it would be.

Oh, and one last closing statement... Do you know what the most liberal country in Europe is when it comes to drugs? It's not the Netherlands. It's Portugal.

After decriminalizing all hard drugs in 2001, Portugal's drug use among teens plummeted, the rate of new HIV infections caused by shared needles dropped considerably, and more than twice as many drug users sought treatment for their addictions. Not to mention, the lifetime marijuana use in people over 15 over in Portugal is now at 10%, compared to 39.8% in the United States.

I mean, just sayin'.

I think you need to go back, reread what I said and think about it before you post again because you're taking a lot of what I said out of context and I dont like that. I never said that legalization of marijuana would cause anarchy in our society. I never said that people couldnt moderate what they took into their bodies.

I know people want to keep the mellow but I really hate it when someone puts words into my mouth

Offline Rider of Wind

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Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #67 on: February 25, 2010, 11:16:49 AM »
   I try really hard not to respond to people's actual points because usually my brain blurs out at about two sentences into a paragraph and I fail to cognitively figure out what the heck their points even -are-. >.<

  On a side note, there's a very good reason I've never tried the Happy Greens. The smell makes me twitchy, like 3 cups of coffee kind of twitchy. I once used a friend's hemp lotion without realizing what it was and about reduced myself to clawing at the things crawling under my skin before I figured out I needed to wash my hands...so yeah, no funtimes for Rider.

  Also, it is my opinion that I should be the Grand Poobah Administrator Regulator of Cannabis when it gets legalized. Perhaps I need to be cryogenically frozen until that time occurs, but I am taking applications for underlings.  O8)

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Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #68 on: February 25, 2010, 07:56:51 PM »
If they legalize pot I won't be able to find a freaking bag of Cheetos (The fact that this is in the Firefox spellchecker scares me a little.) in any state bordering my own.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #69 on: February 25, 2010, 07:57:53 PM »
Or Funyuns.

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Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #70 on: February 25, 2010, 08:03:42 PM »
Or Funyuns.
I'm not joking, I went to a college that just got a small convenience store on campus. Five guys and one young lady came in fully baked and that was the best night of business that store ever saw.

Offline Sabby

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #71 on: February 25, 2010, 08:46:45 PM »
If they legalize pot I won't be able to find a freaking bag of Cheetos (The fact that this is in the Firefox spellchecker scares me a little.) in any state bordering my own.

Ages ago, I got off work, went straight to a backyard party, was absolutely ravenous with hunger... first thing I saw was the snack table. Hell yeah! Oh, wait, bags empty... bowls empty... nothing there... nothing here... what the hell? Theres just packets!

Then I looked around and noticed everyone was high.

"Dude, you okay?" "Yeah, just trying to find a bag of Dorito's in a pot then thats already in full swing... how are you?"

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Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #72 on: February 25, 2010, 08:56:21 PM »
Ages ago, I got off work, went straight to a backyard party, was absolutely ravenous with hunger... first thing I saw was the snack table. Hell yeah! Oh, wait, bags empty... bowls empty... nothing there... nothing here... what the hell? Theres just packets!

Then I looked around and noticed everyone was high.

"Dude, you okay?" "Yeah, just trying to find a bag of Dorito's in a pot then thats already in full swing... how are you?"
It's like something out of the Twilight Zone.

Online Doomsday

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #73 on: February 26, 2010, 12:49:03 AM »
As for your glaucoma, Iím sorry for your condition.  That does not make my statement laughable nor offensive though.  Your condition would benefit more from public insurance or free medical care, not legalizing marijuana.

Actually marijuana is just as effective as Argon Laser Surgery and a boatload cheaper.

Offline Sabby

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #74 on: February 26, 2010, 01:26:38 AM »
Not to mention 'crippling glucoma' is a very common excuse for scoring a bag of weed. So common that I only ever hear it as a joke now.