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Author Topic: Legalize it NOW!  (Read 9815 times)

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Offline Kate

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #125 on: March 14, 2010, 06:49:37 AM »
legalise all drugs thus you can regulate its production (pro-hibition just makes unregulared production and profits in the hands of the wrong people) then tax it.


Offline Doomsday

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #126 on: March 14, 2010, 07:05:12 AM »
And, of course, there's the van from Up In Smoke.



The first thing I thought of when I heard 'cars' and 'weed'.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #127 on: March 14, 2010, 09:19:03 PM »
I say legalize all drugs and make them uber cheap. A dime bag is really a dime. Then natural selection will take its course and drugs won't be a problem, or at least, as big a one.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #128 on: March 15, 2010, 12:30:27 AM »
Legalizing all drugs is like handing out loaded guns in daycare centers.

Offline Doomsday

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #129 on: March 15, 2010, 01:42:17 AM »
Legalizing all drugs is like handing out loaded guns in daycare centers.

Whatever you say, Mr. Beck.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #130 on: March 15, 2010, 02:15:59 AM »
If indeed that is Mr. Beck's stance then it remains his most insightful one.  When you have respect for medication and the harm they can do if not properly monitored and given in a controlled enviroment, then you might understand exactly what my statement means.  Till then, take into account that nurses spend most of their shift verifying medication and most of their education is spent learning what to look for when medications have bad reactions.  Also note that one of the main reasons we have an issue with antibiotics is that people do not listen to their doctors and take all of their antibiotics.  People manage to hurt themselves and others with over the counter medications on a routine basis.  I do not want to see what happens when they can pile on more serious ones.

Offline Kane GunlockTopic starter

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #131 on: March 15, 2010, 09:57:57 AM »
so the government should mind its own damn business ;D

Offline Will

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #132 on: March 15, 2010, 11:06:31 AM »
so the government should mind its own damn business ;D

Sadly, they get to decide what their business is.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #133 on: March 15, 2010, 03:13:02 PM »
Public health tends to be considered part of their buisness.  This is one area where they are obligated to step in and make restrictions.

Offline Will

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #134 on: March 15, 2010, 03:19:33 PM »
Yes, of course, but there has to be a line somewhere.  They don't regulate fatty foods and exercise, and I would consider that a public health issue when heart disease is as big a killer as it is.

What I'm saying, in part, is that they get to decide where that line is.  They decide what is a public health issue.

Offline Kane GunlockTopic starter

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #135 on: March 15, 2010, 04:07:50 PM »
they should try to inform in stead of regulate thats what I think the government should try doing instead of making all these laws make it so we can decide for are selfs weather or not we should smoke weed

Offline Mathim

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #136 on: March 15, 2010, 05:15:53 PM »
I think if people weren't so screwed up in the first place with dysfunctional families and the collective IQ of the human race wasn't declining as sharply as it seems to be, drugs wouldn't be an issue. As it is, people think their lives suck and take drugs to numb the pain. Or they are so shallow and stupid that they don't think they can enjoy things like parties and movies without them. Or they are so insecure about what others think about them that the take drugs just to be 'cool'.

While regulation and education are good in theory, the fact is people are just too uncomfortable with themselves and the world to stop taking drugs. We need a massive change in the social climate before anything can improve. All the current methods of prevention are doing is making people want to do more drugs because fear is added to the equation.

Offline Kane GunlockTopic starter

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #137 on: March 15, 2010, 06:19:34 PM »
in other words the system is increasingly irrelevant and it's time for a new one 

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #138 on: March 16, 2010, 09:59:41 PM »
Yes, of course, but there has to be a line somewhere.  They don't regulate fatty foods and exercise, and I would consider that a public health issue when heart disease is as big a killer as it is.

What I'm saying, in part, is that they get to decide where that line is.  They decide what is a public health issue.
Fatty foods and exercise aren't typically seen as chemically addictive. 

Offline Will

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #139 on: March 16, 2010, 10:00:51 PM »
Neither is marijuana, or a host of other drugs.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #140 on: March 16, 2010, 10:06:06 PM »
People's behavior tends to contradict the myth of marijuana not being addictive.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2010, 10:08:19 PM by Pumpkin Seeds »

Offline Saerrael

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Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #141 on: March 16, 2010, 11:20:59 PM »
That's... you can't possibly believe that.

Pretty certain the point of view of Pumkin in this matter is rather clear.

Anyway. I rather refrain from further debate in this thread.
~peace~

Offline Jude

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #142 on: March 16, 2010, 11:29:08 PM »
Quick point, while the two addictions may come about differently on a person there isn't much of a difference in the affects on that individual in terms of addictive behaviors, difficult in quitting the behavior and its affect on a person's life.
That's simply not true.  Something that causes physical dependence can actually kill you during the withdrawal process, alcohol for instance.  Physical dependence is worse than other forms without a doubt.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2010, 11:54:02 PM by Jude »

Offline Noelle

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #143 on: March 16, 2010, 11:42:50 PM »
People's behavior tends to contradict the myth of marijuana not being addictive.

Anything in the world can be addictive. There are people addicted to sex, some of which could very well be on this website. This website is available on any major search engine. There are people addicted to exercise, addicted to eating, addicted to TV, and if you think those things haven't destroyed lives, you're dangerously short-sighted.

Marijuana is not inherently physically addicting the same way nicotine or heroin is -- but has addiction to marijuana been destructive to someone's lives and loved ones? I'm positive it has. But so has gambling. And sex. And food. People are addicted to caffeine; do you know someone who can't get up in the morning without a cup of coffee? People who obsessively check Facebook? E-mail?  Addiction is everywhere. It's time to start grounding the notion that addiction only happens to strung-out junkies on their last thread.

Equating it to handing a gun to a toddler is overblown and completely unrealistic and completely blown out of proportion. How do I know? Take a good look at Holland. Last time I walked through Amsterdam or Leiden, everything seemed pretty normal to me. Nobody was running around shooting each other or smoking a fat roach in the street and spouting inane banter. There were no wives and mothers bawling in the street because legalized marijuana ruined their family. I'm positive there are still cases of addiction where it's illegal (as is the case for alcohol and nicotine), but there are cases of addiction to everything. There will always be an exception -- just how large or significant that exception is is highly subjective. You hear about one horrific plane crash and forget about the thousands that take off and land safely every single day. For every case of addiction and destruction you hear, remember that you're missing out on stories of people who manage just fine, people who are under control and responsible users.


If anything, legalizing it would provide a wealth of knowledge and begin to promote a culture of conscious, responsible use -- as it is, we have a scare culture giving out the wrong information. In this thread alone, it was claimed that marijuana makes you hallucinate, which is...blatantly wrong. Nobody tells you alcohol or nicotine makes you see things and try to jump off a building and fly, why do you think that is? For one, we have enough personal experience available to draw from, but there is also ample information about both substances. Anybody who doesn't know in this day and age that nicotine isn't addictive or that driving drunk is incredibly dangerous has been living under a rock. People who are well-informed can make the best decision for themselves, that fact can hardly be disputed and sweeping things under the rug or distorting them for your own agenda is not good for the population.


By the way, look around you. I bet you you have encountered at least one person in your daily life who has been a marijuana user and you haven't had the slightest clue. I'm about to be a college graduate with two majors and a pretty promising future. I've seen both sides of the coin, I've seen people who are irresponsible as well as those who promote safe, conscious use. What have your interactions with actual drug users been like? I understand you don't have to be a murderer to know it's bad to kill people, but there is a whole world I have an inkling that you have no idea about.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2010, 11:48:03 PM by Noelle »

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #144 on: March 17, 2010, 12:17:23 AM »
I would like people to take note of the statements which were being said before I made the comment about a hand gun in the hands of daycare children.  The comments were pertaining to legalizing all drugs, not just marijuana.  My statement was not being made in reference to merely legalizing marijuana, but was made in response to the idea of legalizing a greater host of medications that people have no business obtaining without medical advice and counsel.  That is where my analogy of the gun in a daycare center becomes relevant. 

My statement is very true Jude in terms of a person facing the trials of overcoming that addiction.  Indeed a physical withdrawal can be lethal with alcohol, but that is not a barrier to overcoming that addiction.  Few people in AA meetings discuss how they would have quit earlier if it wasnít for that physical withdrawal.  Most people in those meetings discuss the physical cravings along with the psychological cravings of wanting the alcohol.  The same goes for many addicts of other substances both physical and mental.  Indeed because something is a physical addiction there tends to be more resources for those people to get help rather than those that suffer from what people consider merely psychological.  Also alcohol is one of the few substances that can be potentially fatal during withdrawal.

Also in response to the statement about many other addictions.  This is true that many behaviors and lifestyles are addictive.  Yet I am curious as to how many food addicts there are compared to marijuana users.  I am curious as to the amount of sex addicts versus the number of marijuana users currently incarcerated or awaiting trial.  People enjoy flashing up the number of people in prison for marijuana use and/or possession, yet keep in mind these people choose to deal in a substance that they new carried penalties.  They are allowing this substance to interfere with their lives in a drastic fashion.  That is addiction.

Looking around me I also know there are cocaine users, pill poppers, alcoholics, smokers and a wide assortment of other people that I would never know their addiction or behaviors.  That doesnít mean that cocaine use is suddenly ok or that itís alright to down a bottle of vicodine. 

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Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #145 on: March 17, 2010, 12:30:23 AM »
Seems like a good spot to give this a lock, let people take a step back, etc.

It'll be unlocked in a day or two for further discussion.

Offline Noelle

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #146 on: March 19, 2010, 06:44:48 PM »
I would like people to take note of the statements which were being said before I made the comment about a hand gun in the hands of daycare children.  The comments were pertaining to legalizing all drugs, not just marijuana.  My statement was not being made in reference to merely legalizing marijuana, but was made in response to the idea of legalizing a greater host of medications that people have no business obtaining without medical advice and counsel.  That is where my analogy of the gun in a daycare center becomes relevant.

Cocaine is made legal right now. Are you going to go out and try it? I'm not. HOLLAND. I can't point it out enough. When marijuana was decriminalized there, I can guarantee you that the Dutch citizens were not pouring into the streets going LET'S GO GET STONED. Those users who were already doing it were given a safe, government-regulated place to do it and told where it would not be tolerated (you can't smoke in the streets/in public, for example). I'd say that's a fine example of people who would not otherwise choose to do drugs STILL choosing not to do so. Just because cigarettes and alcohol are legal doesn't mean I don't have the capability to decide that it's not something I want to do.

This brings me to my next point.

You know why it's not like a daycare? Because we're dealing with adults. Adults who have the capacity to make decisions, good or bad, pertaining to the way they live. We're dealing with adults who have the capacity to read information and analyze it and decide what's best for themselves. I am not a child and neither are you. The difference between what's real and what's a "daycare" is that children don't know better. Children cannot reason for themselves. Children have no legal ability to choose their own path and distill information to decide what's best. By spreading biased so-called "facts" and choosing to ignore positive examples of responsibility in favor of saying EVERY DRUG WILL RUIN YOUR LIFE, you are turning our population into children and taking away their right to think for themselves and reason with the facts.

Quote
Also in response to the statement about many other addictions.  This is true that many behaviors and lifestyles are addictive.  Yet I am curious as to how many food addicts there are compared to marijuana users.  I am curious as to the amount of sex addicts versus the number of marijuana users currently incarcerated or awaiting trial.

This is not an apt comparison. Food addictions aren't ruled illegal. You don't see 400-pound Shamu Jr. getting cuffed for trying to buy his fifth hamburger of the day or because his blood pressure is dangerously high. You can't compare statistics -- you can't say, "I wonder how many people drink orange juice compared to those who are in jail for alcohol abuse" because drinking orange juice isn't illegal just like being addicted to food or sex or humping doorknobs or what-have-you isn't, either.

Quote
People enjoy flashing up the number of people in prison for marijuana use and/or possession, yet keep in mind these people choose to deal in a substance that they new carried penalties.  They are allowing this substance to interfere with their lives in a drastic fashion.  That is addiction.

That is not addiction. I smoke once every few months, if even that, and am recently clean so I can be ensured no trouble finding employment. If they took a hair sample of me right now, I would not register clean -- THC stays in the hair follicles for years, and part of that would have come from my time spent in a country where it's legal, and this alone could get me jailed. Are you seriously telling me this is an addiction? Because I am an informed drug user who chooses to be a positive example and exercise moderation while still maintaining a healthy, productive lifestyle? This is poor logic; if it were decriminalized, the argument is completely nullified. People abuse alcohol legally all the time (binge drinking is common among college students, for one), and it's not made a habit to the point of interference, but but your definition, this is still addiction. Makes no sense.

Quote
Looking around me I also know there are cocaine users, pill poppers, alcoholics, smokers and a wide assortment of other people that I would never know their addiction or behaviors.  That doesnít mean that cocaine use is suddenly ok or that itís alright to down a bottle of vicodine. 

No, but it means that the image portrayed of all drug users being wasteoids whose live are slowly degenerating because of their drug of choice is not an accurate portrayal. That stoner on the couch is not me. It means that there's more going on than what people are recognizing.

Offline Jude

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #147 on: March 19, 2010, 07:40:18 PM »
Here's a bunch of links about alcohol being worse (or in one case as worse as) than Marijuana.  Really the first two are the best, in my opinion (though I'd read the one I give just a bit later if any).
http://drug-abuse.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_benefits_of_marijuana
http://www.saferchoice.org/content/view/24/53/
http://www.rapvt.org/index_files/Page756.htm
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/188590/marijuana_heroin_vs_alcohol_tobacco.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norm-stamper/420-thoughts-on-pot-vs-al_b_188627.html

But ignoring all else and going straight for the scientific facts, these are the results of a study done by the Lancet (A U.K. Medical Journal):  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_%28mean_physical_harm_and_mean_dependence%29.svg

The bottom line is, if you're okay for something that's not as bad and legal, you gotta be okay with the other.  So anyone who's against marijuana legalization, are you for prohibition of alcohol?

Offline Will

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #148 on: March 19, 2010, 07:46:47 PM »
I agree with you in spirit and all, but perhaps you should say "are you for the prohibition of alcohol if it were practical?"

Offline Kane GunlockTopic starter

Re: Legalize it NOW!
« Reply #149 on: March 19, 2010, 08:16:26 PM »
I agree with you in spirit and all, but perhaps you should say "are you for the prohibition of alcohol if it were practical?"

"all Prohibition did was make a bunch of crooks rich"-Hunter S. Thompson