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Author Topic: Freedom to Worship  (Read 2156 times)

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Offline MnemaxaTopic starter

Freedom to Worship
« on: February 01, 2010, 06:44:03 PM »
Military members of Pagan and Wiccan religions given an outdoors worship area by their military base?  Unthinkable! ^_^

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100201/ap_on_re_us/us_air_force_academy_earth_religion

Offline Ket

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Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2010, 06:56:29 PM »
Why is that unthinkable?  The military has, for quite some time now, been open to all religions.

Offline Brandon

Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2010, 08:11:21 PM »
Theres nothing odd about that. When I was in the military it was mostly Roman catholics, jewish, and a few islam but I knew of a few wiccan's (dated one too) and they were given places to worship both on base and on deployment.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2010, 09:05:38 PM »
It's certainly nice to hear about such things - I remember getting a warm fuzzy feeling when I heard that the pentagram is allowed to be used on military headstones.

Offline Brandon

Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2010, 09:28:43 PM »
religious acceptance has changed drastically within the last 20 years. 70 years ago in world war 2 such things would have been blasphemy (pun intended). Even during the Vietnam war I don't think it would have happened. However today with so many court cases happening involving religious symbols and worship the military has to adapt and provide areas to worship for everyone

Offline MnemaxaTopic starter

Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2010, 11:10:10 PM »
Why is that unthinkable?  The military has, for quite some time now, been open to all religions.

That was more about me being amused than anything else. 

Offline Arhys

Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2010, 02:17:39 AM »
This is pretty cool news.  There have actually been years of problems now with an overly strong Christian evangelical presence and conversion attempts, lots of complaints from people at West Point and Air Force in particular.  And there were those rifles a weapons manufacturer supplied the army with--complete with Biblical quotes engraved on the lens of the scope, that was just recently changed too.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2010, 10:35:40 AM »
I can't imagine what Bible quotes would be appropriate for the scope of a rifle, even from a Christian point of view. O_o

Offline Lilias

Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2010, 10:59:53 AM »
Naturally, all the money here is on the comments. And the comments on the comments.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2010, 02:41:12 PM »
Why not Christians serving in a just military action for good should call on Gods favor.

Offline Avis habilis

Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2010, 02:48:55 PM »
I can't imagine what Bible quotes would be appropriate for the scope of a rifle, even from a Christian point of view. O_o

Hell, isn't the Old Testament mostly about Jehovah smiting the enemies of the Israelites? (When he isn't smiting Israelites, that is.)

Offline Arhys

Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2010, 03:03:18 PM »
They're all being recalled, so at least there was immediate action to address the matter.  Here it is. 

One of the citations on the gun sights, 2COR4:6, is an apparent reference to Second Corinthians 4:6 of the New Testament, which reads: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

Other references include citations from the books of Revelation, Matthew and John dealing with Jesus as "the light of the world." John 8:12, referred to on the gun sights as JN8:12, reads, "Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

The company's vision is described on its Web site: "Guided by our values, we endeavor to have our products used wherever precision aiming solutions are required to protect individual freedom."

"We believe that America is great when its people are good," says the Web site. "This goodness has been based on Biblical standards throughout our history, and we will strive to follow those morals."


Offline Oniya

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Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2010, 03:57:48 PM »
Why not Christians serving in a just military action for good should call on Gods favor.

I'm not averse to soldiers praying at any time they feel the need, but it seems that the scope of a weapon isn't the most appropriate place to put those prayers.

Offline Avis habilis

Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2010, 04:17:49 PM »
Why not Christians serving in a just military action for good should call on Gods favor.

Kinda like this?

Offline Oniya

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Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2010, 04:40:39 PM »
They're all being recalled, so at least there was immediate action to address the matter.  Here it is. 

Okay - I was envisioning full quotes inscribed somehow (maybe in a ring around the outside or something).  The quotes seem a little non-sequiter-ish, but listing chapter and verse is something I could probably overlook if I were using said gun.  My biggest 'problem' with associating Bible quotes and guns is that - with very few exceptions - Jesus is depicted as a pacifist, who has more in common with Gandhi than with your average unit commander.

Offline consortium11

Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2010, 08:57:06 AM »
Okay - I was envisioning full quotes inscribed somehow (maybe in a ring around the outside or something).  The quotes seem a little non-sequiter-ish, but listing chapter and verse is something I could probably overlook if I were using said gun.  My biggest 'problem' with associating Bible quotes and guns is that - with very few exceptions - Jesus is depicted as a pacifist, who has more in common with Gandhi than with your average unit commander.

My biggest issue with it is it means that accusations that this is a "Holy War" against Islam now have some weight behind them, which is worth its weight in gold in propaganda terms.

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Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2010, 09:00:24 AM »
That would be in addition to Bushs crusade comment, and the military briefings with the bible quotes on them?

Offline consortium11

Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2010, 10:55:37 AM »
No doubt... these operations have been repeatedly hamstrung by PR blunders... blunders that may well have cost lives.

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2010, 11:34:27 AM »
Well, they certainly won't help matters any.

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Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2010, 01:49:30 PM »
Of course the Earth-Based Religion's site on the Air Force Academy Campus has already been involved in some potential hating.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/02/03/christians-desecrate-wiccan-religious-site-at-air-force-academy/

Offline Carpy

Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2010, 12:35:36 AM »
Of course the Earth-Based Religion's site on the Air Force Academy Campus has already been involved in some potential hating.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/02/03/christians-desecrate-wiccan-religious-site-at-air-force-academy/

Isn't it great that had it been any other faith there would have been a huge out cry over it but it down played just because its pagan/wicca.

Offline Jude

Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2010, 01:56:07 PM »
From the sound of things all that happened is someone left a wooden cross at the earth religions site.  I couldn't find a more destructive description of what happened, so I'm going to assume there hasn't been a big outcry because it wasn't a big deal.

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Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2010, 02:19:59 PM »
I actually have to agree with Jude here.  The counterexample of 'If someone had left a swastika at the Jewish site' doesn't really scan with me because the Nazi swastika isn't a religious symbol.  (The Hindu swastika is, but it 'swirls' the opposite direction.)  Also, the cross was simply propped up against a rock.  It wasn't pounded into the ground.  It wasn't scorched into the grass.  It wasn't spray-painted onto any part of the site. 

The Puckish part of me would have had the railroad ties broken up and (if not made out of treated wood) set aside for the Beltane fire.  And maybe posted a notice thanking the perpetrators for the donation.

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Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2010, 02:43:39 PM »
x3 - I was thinking earlier this morning that leaving a cross lying around isn't exactly a swastika - although considering how upset some pagans can be about christian crosses and whatnot, I wouldn't go so far as to say the swastika holds more cultural meaning for the jewish community... just different, now.

Offline Carpy

Re: Freedom to Worship
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2010, 03:03:36 AM »
From the sound of things all that happened is someone left a wooden cross at the earth religions site.  I couldn't find a more destructive description of what happened, so I'm going to assume there hasn't been a big outcry because it wasn't a big deal.
I actually have to agree with Jude here.  The counterexample of 'If someone had left a swastika at the Jewish site' doesn't really scan with me because the Nazi swastika isn't a religious symbol.  (The Hindu swastika is, but it 'swirls' the opposite direction.)  Also, the cross was simply propped up against a rock.  It wasn't pounded into the ground.  It wasn't scorched into the grass.  It wasn't spray-painted onto any part of the site. 

The Puckish part of me would have had the railroad ties broken up and (if not made out of treated wood) set aside for the Beltane fire.  And maybe posted a notice thanking the perpetrators for the donation.

True, but I doubt the meaning behind placing to cross there was anything less then a stab at the pagans/wiccans and had some thing similar been done to a mosque or a church that there would have been a greater out cry over it.