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Author Topic: Don't sell yourself, Shoplift!  (Read 2316 times)

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Offline Zakharra

Re: Don't sell yourself, Shoplift!
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2010, 09:38:11 AM »
 You are correct to a point. However, if what was done was legal but unethical, then it's a gray area since it IS legal to do. If it was done illegally, let the law hit them like a ton of bricks. If it was legal, then the buyer is the one who should beware.

 My statement about  this
Quote
People should know, above all else, that stealing from the rich is not a right. It is our moral responsibility.

.. though isn't targeted to just the banking industry, but to any 'rich' person. I've seen blogs and gotten into arguments with people who think that ALL rich and wealthy people stole their money. That in order for them to be successful, that they have to cheat  the middle class and poorer people out of their money

 
Quote
It's amazing how many people seem to think that the wealthy steal the money they get. That to become rich, the rich use illegal means of cheat their customers in order to get the money. It can be a very short hop from deciding it's alright to steal from such 'cheats' because they can 1, afford to loose the money and 2, because it was gotten by theft anyways.

 I meant the above. most business people have earned their wealth by hard work. It often isn't;t hand labor, but keeping a business running is not an easy thing to do. You have to manage the payroll, taxes, inventory, power, water and a host of other things that can leave a person mentally drained. It might not be physical labor, but physical labor alone is not and should NEVER be the only requirement for 'hard work' for a business to succeed.

Offline Vekseid

Re: Don't sell yourself, Shoplift!
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2010, 07:09:23 PM »
At the risk of sounding harsh, it wasn't stealing. A lot of people who took those mortgages (junk bonds?) were borderline being able to pay them back. When you sign something, I'm given to understand at the bottom is a statement that the signer agrees and affirms that they have read and understand the contract they are putting their signature to.

Except you don't. Fortunately for you, the courts consider illegible contracts the same way I do. Which has led to some good restructuring of business to business contracts, but not so much business to consumer yet.

There are a lot of morally shady ways to make money. It's really really hard to succeed as a business, without inheriting something, and still be completely ethical. Not impossible by any means, but the unethical ones certainly make it harder for the rest of us.

However, unethical businesses have gotten to the point where they are both lobbying and legally entrenching themselves. This is a serious problem, and would be a direct threat to our democracy in any less rapidly advancing age.

Online PaleEnchantress

Re: Don't sell yourself, Shoplift!
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2010, 11:02:38 PM »
I'm neither religious nor someone who sees stealing as acceptable regardless of if it targets the rich. I got a chuckle out of the article and the concept that the priest is saying "it's okay to steal". That really isn't what he is saying though.

He says quite clearly that stealing is wrong. I think he is just trying to be a realist and admit that the world isn't perfect and sometimes one might have to go for the lesser evil. If someone is in a position of extreme desperation they don't really have the luxury of surviving and avoiding all wrongdoing. In this case shoplifting from a large corporation is (by comparison to robbery) the path that causes the least amount of suffering. It isn't that large corporations deserve to be taken advantage of. It's that they are simply going to be impacted the least.

Of course who was the priest targeting with his sermon? People who have the ability to dress up and drive to Sunday mass? Most of us that are reading this in front of our personal computer screens? Probably not, but that does seem to be who he ended up saying it too.

Offline kylie

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Re: Don't sell yourself, Shoplift!
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2010, 02:01:25 AM »
Quote from: PaleEnchantress
Of course who was the priest targeting with his sermon? People who have the ability to dress up and drive to Sunday mass? Most of us that are reading this in front of our personal computer screens? Probably not, but that does seem to be who he ended up saying it too.
          I don't quite know how many poor are in this particular congregation.  Assuming for the moment that it is a congregation more of people who are not in poverty...  It isn't as if the poor actually live in a totally separate world.  People with more means may decide to dedicate some time or resources to alleviating their situation, or they might decide to push social policies that make poverty more glaring. 

          I don't have enough information to say technically whether this all amounted to a New Testament or other style statement on what better Christians should do with regard to the poor.  I would say that the harder line the congregation takes, the more poverty, misery and theft will persist or expand.  If they aren't moved to make changes that push people across an absolute line such that poverty drops dramatically, there are still relative differences depending upon what point of view those people take. 
« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 02:03:54 AM by kylie »