Topic: ExXxalted game

[ultlifeform]

Oh My God! There's three different kinds? When did this happen? Why was I never... Wait, what were we just talking about?

[Ryvaken]

The Silver Pact remembers its betrayers. Remembers why they fled the Loom of Fate into the Wyld.

And the Sidereals are about as crafty as a drugged puppy. I have high standards for devious behavior -- smashing a constellation with an arcane hammer doesn't qualify. Evading censure is a hat trick, and the result damaged the Sidereals' own position, even amongst eachother. And for all that effort, they never found the true problems, or fixed the problems in Heaven. The Fivefold Brotherhood deserves neither respect nor praise for any of its known actions.

[ReijiTabibito]

To be fair, a few things about Sidereals.

A: They don't just go around announcing themselves to all of Creation.  That's counterproductive, that's not subtle, and they aren't supposed to draw attention to themselves.

B: Chances are, if a Sidereal risks contact with a Solar, it's because they're of the Gold Faction, and they want the Solars back in charge again.

C: And no one has found the true problems which ultimately caused the Usurpation.  Even Chejop Kejak doesn't know about the Great Curse.  No one does.  So it's not fair to expect the Sidereals to know about it, and try to fix it, when the Solars themselves, the supposed masters of Creation, didn't do any better.

D: The Sidereals might not have made the right choice, but they made the one that benefitted the most people.  To quote Spock, "the good of the many outweighs the needs of the few."  The Viziers were stuck in an Exalted Kobayashi Maru - a test which was essentially unwinnable.  They could do nothing, and watch Creation be destroyed by the Solars' tyranny; they could try to reform the Solars - secretly, since discovery would cause the Solars to turn not only on them, but on the Lunars as well; or they could do what they did.  Was it right?  No.  But the Sidereals are sworn to protect Creation...even if it has to be from their chosen rulers.

[Ryvaken]

A: Not subtle is about the definition of a Sidereal.

C: Lytek does. Explicitly stated...somewhere. There have been so many books I've lost track. It might have been in the Infernals, in the same pointy where they said that he could DEFINITELY restore their Exaltations to their proper glory, unlike the Abyssals. More importantly, the Curse can't bear the blame unless it fell on the gods, too.

D: The prophecy of gold was public disclosure, not secrets. And the Sidereals have done a wonderful job protecting Creation.

[Zaer Darkwail]

So far as I know none present time solars remember sidereals (expect if there was survivor and I recall there is one in Wyld, disguising as barbarian god like Lunars are and Silver Pact is aware of him). Lunars would most likely remember that dragonbloods were the ones to betray solars, as any sidereal which they personally do not know would had slipped over time from their minds (but would remember a expectional skilled assassin hit squads maybe). Only perhaps elders of silver pact (survivors of first age) could remember sidereals. Not freshly exalted lunars and they are only told 'hate civilization' (which is run and created by dragonbloods, sidereals only created the religion order and even that is not well known act).

[Chimerelf]

It seems a lot of assumptions are being made about the Sidereal.

Is the issue that you don't like Sidereal or your character doesn't?  I'm finding it somewhat hard to tell.

My only request is that you don't judge my character before meeting her.  She has no obvious tells of her being a Sidereal, and personality wise, she has high compassion and tends to avoid fighting at all costs.  She's also a member of the Gold Faction, as she can understand death to cause change, but can't accept betrayal to avoid a potential disaster.  At least not unless it's the absolute last choice.

I'm telling this openly for two reasons.

1: My character doesn't lie, at least not to allies, and even when she lies to enemies she sucks at it.  Therefore, all of this will likely come forward eventually anyway.

2: I'm hoping this somehow makes you realize our characters don't have to be enemies.

[ultlifeform]

Yeah, can't the Solars and the Lunars and the... ummmm... Well, can't we all just be friends ^_^

[Idej]

Well, I think it could be possible for it to happen, but I'm not sure how.

[ReijiTabibito]

C.  Lytek is exactly one god out of thousands, and if he knows the truth, then he's not been trying to recruit people to help solve the problem, which either means A: he doesn't know, or B: he does, but just doesn't care.  And I personally think that the God of Exaltation would want to fix the Great Curse.  BTW, checked the Infernals book, the closest reference to the Great Curse and Lytek is that Lytek found after purifying a tainted Exaltation that there was a nearly imperceptible taint that stuck to the Exaltation after purification - see page 51.  Now, the Ebon Dragon knows about the Great Curse, but I don't think one of the Yozis is about to share that information with the Celestial Exalted.

[Ryvaken]

The Lunar elders gain nothing by hiding the existence of the Sidereals from their youngsters. I'm not saying there's a full history lesson and reeducation, But I expect any Lunar to be able to
A) Recognize the proper names of Celestial Exalted, the various Castes thereof
B) Know that the First Age wonders were made by the Twilight Caste
C) Know that the Sidereals masterminded the Usurpation and that the Loom of Fate can track the Lunars
D) Have about twenty different opinions on the Solars presented to them in the form of subtext, with no one proper doctrine or party line.


To answer your question. I don't like Sidereals. Like I said, I have very high standards for subtlety and the Sidereals fail miserably. At best, they foist the actual legwork on the pattern spiders. The Bronze Faction simply compounds that with stupidity. About the only faction I have respect for is the Silver Faction, and then only because they're the ones that have correctly spotted the only individuals that have any understanding about what a civilization must be: everchanging.


C. Autochthon knew, too. His response was to flee before the Solars turned on him. Lytek doesn't have that option, and he's already been assaulted by Sidereals. Any attempt to spread that information would be a political nightmare, probably get him censured for disrupting the Bureau of Destiny, and possibly cause another, more tractable god to take his place in the Celestial Bureaucracy (which I remind you happened once in the Usurpation, demoting him to his present state). All of which means that sharing the information openly is A) bad for him B) bad for the Exaltations and C) bad for the rest of Creation.
As for recruitment, who would he go to? The Sidereals are the only ones who have the authority to be active in Creation on a routine basis, and even going to the Sidereals would be a political disaster.
Ah, found it. Compass Celestial 3, page 143. Lytek and the Maiden of Secrets both know of the Great Curse. Canon. And apparently he is working with the Gold Faction, or trying to, so some of my conclusions were a little overreaching. C'est la vie. His current focus is on Abyssals, which makes sense. If he can get a hold of an uncursed Solar Exaltation, it would be a coup for his research into removing the Curse.

[ReijiTabibito]

Yes, Autochthon knew, but he was one of the Primordials, and it was the Primordials who made the Great Curse.  And depending on the GM, Jupiter is capable of knowing pretty much everything - though the problem with her is that by her very nature, she can't tell anyone.  Same goes for Nara-O, who, according to the same book, can find any secret known by any being.  Plus, as Plot Hooks said, what Exalted would know about the Sidereals?  The only possible candidates that I can think of are the Lunars who went into hiding and survived the Usurpation, and have recently returned.  Or someone with the Past Lives merit, but that's about it, I think.

[DreadD]

Honestly, I think we should avoid OOC fights of this nature.  Even if one does not personally like the Sidereal, that does not mean one gets to ecide their character is going to try to murder another party member before the game even starts, that's not even a little cool.

On the other hand, I will agree the Lunars with, probably, Silver Pact training would be inherently distrustful of sidereal as, since *all* of the lunars, or close to it, had to retreat into the wyld to avoid being killed by Sidereal assassins (Mentioned in both the Lunar and Sidereal books) so I would expect the oral tradition of the Lunars would include "And then the Sidereal tried to kill us all" because the Lunars existed as a tribe in the wyld, and came back out of it, it's not like the Solars where they have a massive gap in their history unless they have past lives because they were all dead, there was no "history reset" for the Lunars.

Still, I would like to err on the side of politeness and getting along and request that people not take an OOC dislike of a type of exaltation and turn it into something IC before we even get to start.

[Ryvaken]

I didn't say murder. I'm willing to settle for a few oaths, properly sanctified, that the Sidereal isn't going to act in any fashion with the intention of alerting the Wyld Hunt, or any other agency with similar goals, to our existence or location. A simple precaution.

As to remembering the Sidereals...read the mechanics on Arcane Fate, people. You can remind someone about a Sidereal's existence and spark off another roll. Unless the entire Silver Pact failed those rolls at once, there is no reason to suspect them of losing that knowledge as a group.

[ReijiTabibito]

Well, considering that the Sidereals we have so far are Gold Faction, I think alerting the Wyld Hunt would be counterproductive to their overall goal of returning the Solars to the throne of Creation.  Plus...do we even have an Eclipse caste?  Last I checked, we had a Dawn, Zenith, and a Twilight, but no Eclipse.  And Eclipses are the ones who do the sanctified oath thing.  So, it's all moot unless there's an Eclipse present.

[Ryvaken]

You mean like my Mate? Yeah, we have an Eclipse.

[Josh the Aspie]

The fact that this RP is closed for new players is... disheartening.  Ah well, perhaps I'll find an exalted game at some other time.  Have fun you guys!

[Chimerelf]

I'm aware that the Lunars dislike the Sidereal (and with good reason), but I fail to see how you would know us to be Sidereal. 

It really does feel like you have a personal problem with Sidereal and are ready to act on that with your character before even knowing who or what we are.  In that case, you're metagaming.  I would appreciate it if you were to avoid such actions.

I have no real issue taking an oath to that regard, but threatening our characters with violence before the game even begins is immature.  If your character already knows about the factions, then he should know not all Sidereal are interested in calling down the Wyld Hunt.  Furthermore, my character has no interest in killing anyone for personal or factional reasons.  As for the other Sidereal in the party, I don't know the details, but I know he's Gold Faction so it seems unlikely he would have an issue with you, unless you were to start something first.

Empyrean, I think the game is ready to begin whenever you're ready.  Right now, it appears to have just devolved into ooc bickering. 

[Ryvaken]

Chimerelf, the moment you spend Peripheral essence that caste mark is showing up on your forehead. Likewise, have you considered how you plan to travel with Exalted without actually telling anyone what Charms you know, or what Caste you are? These are not atypical questions to ask, and paranoia is a survivalist trait. Now, if you manage to construct a completely plausible guise as a Terrestrial, Lunar, or Solar, that's one thing. But I don't think that you will find it possible to conceal yourself like that, and the addition of lying to us personally to the usual bag of anti-Sidereal sentiment will make your inevitable reveal that much nastier.

[ultlifeform]

Well, as long as we can at least try to stay civil, we should be fine. Our characters don't have to like each other, and I suspect many characters will all but hate everybody in the group (my character included, she's about as apathetic as they come). But as long as we can work together without pulling blades every few minutes, we don't need to like each other. It's good dynamics to have uneasy relations within the group. But for the greater good, you sometimes have to work together with people you don't like. Usually when there is a group that is greatly unliked, they also have a lot to offer and are highly useful to have around. Comprimises will have to be made, and a lot of characters are going to be perpetually pissed off, but as long as we aren't attacking each other all the time, we should be fine. No one ever said we had to like it, just have to deal with. Paranoia is good survival instinct, and I would agree that you would want to watch the Sidereals as closely as possible. Just don't attack without provocation. That's just as likely or even more likely to cause mountains of problems...

[DreadD]

>_>  I don't think *everyone* in the group is going to be hated.

That being said, it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out, though we certainly have loads and loads of characters, hopefully things don't get too bogged down/chaotic because of it, we may need to have our activities spread out across multiple threads for this to end well, I suspect, but we shall see..

As for my character, well, she's somewhat more easy going than a lot of you seem to be, between the guy who wants to take over the world and the reasonably paranoid.  Though, come to think of it, did we decide on a plot or are we waiting for the final unveiling yet?

[Chimerelf]

I have no intention of lying to anybody. I thought I had made that clear.  You're welcome to be as paranoid as you like to be, but keep it in character.

My character has no problem with anyone.  That includes Infernal, Abyssal, and Fair Folk.  She'll stand against what they're for, but on a personal level, wishes them the best with their existence.  That's just the way she is.

You're welcome to try to attack or kill my character or whatever you want.  I'm through with this argument.  Play your character however you want and I'll play mine how I chose.

To the rest of you, I'm sorry you had to see this ooc squabbling.  Ultlifeform, you're right.  You're exactly right.  Let's just play by those rules and see where the story takes us.

[ultlifeform]

>_>  I don't think *everyone* in the group is going to be hated.

I don't mean to imply that all characters have a reason to be hated. I simply mean that some characters just don't like people in general, and whether they are given reason to or not, will probably just hate everybody. Even in real life, some people are like that. My character doesn't really hate everyone, she just doesn't care... about much of anything... so as long as you don't cross her, she has no reason to cause problems, but on the other hand, if you don't appear as useful to her, she probably isn't going to help you either. Doesn't really matter what the other people are like, some make blanket judgements about people in general

[Idej]

You mean like my Mate? Yeah, we have an Eclipse.

Someone mention me.

I'm here, yep I am playing as an Eclipse Solar that is connected with Ryv's Lunar.

[Idej]

We have two now.

[Idej]

I'm certain there will benefits to this.