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Author Topic: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial  (Read 3009 times)

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Offline Dim HonTopic starter

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There is a law getting pushed through in the UK that will lead to people who fileshare (which isn't pirating) being disconnected from their internet connections without trial.

It really needs to be stopped. The petition of UK citizens to sign against this law is here. Stephen Fry has offered to buy all signers a pint.   

Quote
This petition has been set up in response to the Government’s proposal to cut off internet access to those who are caught illegally downloading copyrighted files. We think this has one fundamental flaw, as illegal filesharers will simply hack into other peoples WiFi networks to do their dirty work. This will result in innocent people being disconnected from the internet. What's more, such a punishment should be dealt with in the proper way, in a court of law. This guilty until proven innocent approach violates basic human rights.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 10:53:52 AM by Eden »

Offline Neroon

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Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2009, 11:18:43 AM »
It's another example of the Brown regime's intent to increasingly limit the freedoms of the British public.  The creeping spread of CCTV,, the attempt to introduce biometric ID cards and the failed (thank God!) legislation to give the security services the right to examine the email and phone records of anyone in the UK without a warrant are symptomatic of this need to regulate all aspects of our lives.

Big Brother is watching and his name is Gordon.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2009, 12:11:37 PM »
I've always thought the UK danced a lot closer on the edge of personal liberties (and the lack thereof) than the US. A sad thing considering the country was the birthplace of one of the first democracies with the creation of the Magna Carta.

I fear that the government of the US (and UK) are using the fear of the public to justify all sorts of things. And special interests are always going to get stuff like this slid into the books with as little oversight as they can.

Offline Trieste

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Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2009, 12:20:56 PM »
It's another example of the Brown regime's intent to increasingly limit the freedoms of the British public.  The creeping spread of CCTV,, the attempt to introduce biometric ID cards and the failed (thank God!) legislation to give the security services the right to examine the email and phone records of anyone in the UK without a warrant are symptomatic of this need to regulate all aspects of our lives.

Big Brother is watching and his name is Gordon.

HYou guys elected the wrong Brown. Throw out Gordon, elect Alton.

Offline consortium11

Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2009, 12:31:52 PM »
HYou guys elected the wrong Brown. Throw out Gordon, elect Alton.

Haven't actually had a chance to elect Brown yet... he got the position by default, a lovely side-effect of our parliamentary system

Offline MercyfulFate

Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2009, 01:00:25 PM »
Wow, this is disgusting. For all the things listed in this thread I honestly would probably never visit the UK, which is sad because I want to.

Sometimes I wonder if Orwell really saw these things coming, or if 1984 actually influenced people to do these things. There's a belief out there that Orwell based it off of what he saw working for the BBC, and perhaps saw more coming down the road.

I mean who writes about tele-screens everywhere that watch you, and years later there's an extensive CCTV system that does just that?

Online Revolverman

Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2009, 01:03:03 PM »
I really feel for the British people, being squeezed in a vice by a government that's telling you its to protect you.

Out with Labor.

Offline consortium11

Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2009, 02:17:14 PM »
I really feel for the British people, being squeezed in a vice by a government that's telling you its to protect you.

Out with Labor.

Honestly, it's not a Labour/Conservative divide here... the Torries may traditionally be the party of civil liberties (at least of the big two) but they're not a whole lot better now... and especially not on the day to day aspect. On the headline issues, yes they opposed 42 day detention... but they'll keep 28 days. Hell, they want to repeal the Human Right's Act...

Away from the headline issues they're little better than Laour. Once "hug a hoodie" got sent to its deserved grave and Cameron decided to try to beef up his image the standard Tory way. They didn't oppose the ammendments Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 that made a huge (and very vaguely defined) amount of erotic material illegal. On a whole host of personal liberty issues the best the Tories can say is "not quite as bad as Laour"... and that's without getting into the mess that is the EU and the fact someone who has never been elected in her life is now effectively our foreign secretary and can speak for us...

Offline Sycamore

Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2009, 03:07:04 PM »
There are a hundred and one ways this will fail, and not actually stop piracy.
There are a hundred and one different reasons why this is immoral and harmful to ISPs and to citizens.
There are a hundred and one ways this encourages technological ignorance.

Instead of listing them all I will say this. Peter Mandelson a.k.a Sith Mandelson, who has been kicked out of parliament for corruption not once but twice, put forward these laws. This occurred the day after he had dinner with a multimillionaire anti-piracy nut. Yay for democracy. Someone actually threw green custard over him in protest of his greed (Although it wasn't due to this law).

I vote for liberal democrats for a reason, not because they are left wing, but because they genuinely care about their citizens.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 03:22:18 PM by Sycamore »

Online Vekseid

Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2009, 03:25:25 PM »
Quote
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 06:19:03 -0700
From: website-exclusion <website-exclusion@phorm.com>
To: vekseid@elliquiy.com
Subject: Publisher Exclusion Request Autoreply
Parts/Attachments:
   1   OK    ~18 lines  Text
   2 Shown   ~94 lines  Text
----------------------------------------


Thank you for your submission to the Phorm website exclusion list. If there are no obvious grounds to doubt the
legitimacy of the request the URL will be blocked as soon as possible, usually within 48 hours.

Requests must be made by the legitimate owner of the domain. If we have questions regarding your domain Phorm may take a
number of steps, including attempting to contact the domain administrator by email for confirmation of this request. If
the request remains questionable and is not confirmed within 10 days, the URL will be removed from the exclusion list and
an email will be sent informing you of this decision.

Where applicable, please ensure that the Administrative Contact details for this domain are up to date. If you need to
update them, please resubmit your request when the amended details are visible in the WhoIs database - (use a public
whois service such as http://who.godaddy.com/whoischeck.aspx [who.godaddy.com] if you are unsure it has been updated)

>_>

Offline Neroon

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Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2009, 04:33:37 PM »
Sometimes I wonder if Orwell really saw these things coming, or if 1984 actually influenced people to do these things. There's a belief out there that Orwell based it off of what he saw working for the BBC, and perhaps saw more coming down the road.

The theory that Orwell's experiences in the BBC during WWII influenced 1984 certainly has merit.  Certainly, the secret service censors who edited the scripts for all broadcasts were situated in a room just down the corridor from Orwell's own.  Their room number was 101.

Offline MercyfulFate

Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2009, 04:58:33 PM »
The theory that Orwell's experiences in the BBC during WWII influenced 1984 certainly has merit.  Certainly, the secret service censors who edited the scripts for all broadcasts were situated in a room just down the corridor from Orwell's own.  Their room number was 101.

Very true, and the various ministries were based on real ones. The protagonist creates a war hero out of thin air, which in a lot of ways reminded me of Pat Tillman. He was a guy who joined the US Military and turned down an NFL contract with the cardinals, they blatantly lied about his death saying he died heroically fighting the enemy. In fact, he was killed by friendly fire.

Emmanuel Goldstein always drew direct parallels to Osama Bin Laden as well for me. The shadowy leader of an international terrorist organization who's image they throw up on TV to scare and enrage the people.

Offline Dim HonTopic starter

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Offline Hemingway

Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2009, 05:22:52 PM »
Sometimes I wonder if Orwell really saw these things coming, or if 1984 actually influenced people to do these things. There's a belief out there that Orwell based it off of what he saw working for the BBC, and perhaps saw more coming down the road.

I don't know about Orwell, but Alan Moore did see it coming.

Anyway - is this the same as that ACTA deal in the works? Because that worries me. I'm about ready to don a Guy Fawkes mask and take to the streets.

Offline Silk

Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2009, 07:09:37 PM »
I don't know about Orwell, but Alan Moore did see it coming.

Anyway - is this the same as that ACTA deal in the works? Because that worries me. I'm about ready to don a Guy Fawkes mask and take to the streets.

If it does go through I will be arranging a protest in front of whitehall all in guy Fawkes masks, chanting "Remember remember the 11Th of November" Maybe they will get the point.

Offline Sycamore

Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2009, 01:28:26 PM »
If it does go through I will be arranging a protest in front of whitehall all in guy Fawkes masks, chanting "Remember remember the 11Th of November" Maybe they will get the point.
http://freedom.libdems.org.uk/the-freedom-bill/8-the-right-to-protest/
You (unfortunatly) may not have that right. Depends on whether or not the government decides you are allowed to.

Online Revolverman

Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2009, 01:37:57 PM »
http://freedom.libdems.org.uk/the-freedom-bill/8-the-right-to-protest/
You (unfortunatly) may not have that right. Depends on whether or not the government decides you are allowed to.

That makes my brain and my balls hurt.

Offline Hemingway

Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2009, 01:39:35 PM »
Call me paranoid, but I think there's writing on the wall here.

Offline MercyfulFate

Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2009, 03:19:31 AM »
http://freedom.libdems.org.uk/the-freedom-bill/8-the-right-to-protest/
You (unfortunatly) may not have that right. Depends on whether or not the government decides you are allowed to.

That's disturbing but that do that in the US, force you to get a permit which is a direct violation of the right to peaceably assemble.

Offline Jooo

Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2009, 08:32:01 AM »
Stephen Fry has offered to buy all signers a pint.

I was unaware of this.
Any one have any way to contact, i pretty much forced most of my friends to sign this.  I'm not exactly a hardcore pirate myself, but this law is just stupid, it's like democracy and human rights have gone out of the window.

Offline Dim HonTopic starter

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Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2009, 08:40:55 AM »
It has nothing to do with pirates, and everything to do with the people they will use to shield themselves with.

Offline consortium11

Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2009, 02:40:22 PM »
I read one of the greatest lines I think I've seen in a long time on this issue...

Was Jesus stealing from the fishmongers and bakers of Galilee when he turned 2 loaves and a fish into a feast to feed the crowd?

Offline Sycamore

Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2009, 03:21:06 PM »
It has nothing to do with pirates, and everything to do with the people they will use to shield themselves with.
Although this is partially true....
It's also to do with the system needed to implement this will cost ISPs millions. The statistics that copyright associations knock out are ludicrous and horribly biased beyond belief. I tell you now it will cost the ISPs far more, than the record industries etc will gain back in profit. To top this off, it won't even stop piracy. People will simply use file storage hosts and encryption.

I've seen statistics suggest that billions are being lost every year through piracy for the UK alone. Yet considering there is no overhead for production with piracy (due to the fact it isn't stealing, it IS copying), and there is absolutely no way that anyone can estimate how many of the pirates will go out and buy the media if they have no other option, how on earth do you calculate how much is truly lost in sales? This is the equivalent of me counting the value of the lost possible sale on top of the material value lost from production of the media (which in the case of piracy is nil). On top of this, honestly I don't even believe UK citizens have half the disposable income the copyright associations suggest they would be spending on media if piracy were stopped. Especially considering the economic downturn we are taking.

Piracy is a symptom rather than a root problem. There are numerous moral reasons why people pirate, but I'll keep them to myself instead, so as not to derail the thread.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 03:57:51 PM by Sycamore »

Offline Dim HonTopic starter

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Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2009, 03:27:08 PM »
Also - I do not understand how they think filesharing using the internet is any different to someone taping tracks off the radio.

If they are so enraged about filesharing, what does that suggest to the people who buy a physical copy? That they purchase the right to listen to the track, not the physical object but the sound embedded in that object, so wouldn't the company be obliged to replace the physical object if it get damaged?

It is such a tangle. 

Offline Hemingway

Re: UK Webwar: 'Illegal Filesharers' To Be Disconnected Without Trial
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2009, 03:44:10 PM »
About filesharing and piracy in general, with music in particular, what they're doing is so ham-fisted. I regularly buy music online, but I've downloaded otherwise in the past, and it seems like such a paradox that pirated music is, besides being free, also easier to find and download. It's simply a better service.

I mean, when I download from various stores, the tracks aren't labeled or named properly, and they appear in no order at all. Which I guess is fine, ... except that one time I bought a concept album. Listening to it in random order sort of sucked, you know? I've also had difficulty listening to the music I paid for on some mp3 players, whereas pirated music gives me no trouble at all. I also ran into trouble with music I'd paid for in media player a while ago, as it suddenly demanded I download some update or another to listen to music I'd listened to previously. It just blows my mind, because the solution is so simple; provide a better service, without putting pointless restrictions on it. A system like what they have on Xbox Live would be perfect - buy "points" and use them to buy whatever you like. Or, heck, just let me pay for individual tracks without having to enter in all my information every time. Something like that. It's so ... I don't know, it says something about the way they see customers, I think, if they'd rather force us to use their terrible services, than try to improve and compete.

Oh well. Just my opinion. : )