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Author Topic: Windows 7 Discussion  (Read 3073 times)

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Offline CythieusTopic starter

Windows 7 Discussion
« on: October 27, 2009, 09:17:21 PM »
I didn't see this anywhere, sorry if its in the wrong place. But this is the place to talk about the program if you have it and how you like it and help others know how stuff works and where features are. Also, users with some interest in it can look into how it works.

Like right now I am looking for this XP mode.

Offline Karma

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2009, 12:19:38 AM »
I've used it for a few months now, and I adore it. I like the new look, the searchable start menu is simply indispensable, and the driver issues have been generally resolved. Vista2 Windows 7 is my new mainstay.

Offline CythieusTopic starter

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2009, 12:29:07 AM »
Sadly most of the stuff you mentioned pretty much debuted in Vista. I keep telling people that about the searchable start menu and the new search functions and they only didn't try Vista cause they heard someone else did and didn't like it.

Offline Karma

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2009, 12:33:13 AM »
I tried Vista, and at the time, driver support was disastrous. Consequently, my sound card didn't work well, and game performance was frankly atrocious. Vista leaked memory like a sieve, and when I tried it again as of SP1, none of these issues had been very much addressed. Maybe in SP2 it was taken care of, but I was past being interested at that point. As for the XP Mode you're looking for, I believe it no longer exists in 7.

Offline CythieusTopic starter

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2009, 12:54:54 AM »
I tried Vista, and at the time, driver support was disastrous. Consequently, my sound card didn't work well, and game performance was frankly atrocious. Vista leaked memory like a sieve, and when I tried it again as of SP1, none of these issues had been very much addressed. Maybe in SP2 it was taken care of, but I was past being interested at that point. As for the XP Mode you're looking for, I believe it no longer exists in 7.

I had Vista from May of last year until 10 o'clock the other night, only had one compatibility issue and it was due the program more than Vista itself. I upgraded to 7 I get about the same speed I was getting before, some thing are slightly faster.

Offline Morven

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2009, 07:37:34 AM »
A big chunk of Vista's problem always was drivers, and a lot of that can really be laid at the feet of how the PC market has changed.  Your hardware's a year old? The Taiwanese or Chinese company that designed and built it doesn't care anymore.  They don't sell that model; it's ancient history by now.

This is why upgraders had a crappy time, but Vista worked great for those who bought it already pre-installedóbecause the OEM made sure all the drivers were good.

Memory leaks were quite likely at the driver level too.

Offline Raveled

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2009, 08:49:45 AM »
Well, I can't talk of things like memory leak, but I had Windows 7 for about a week, and all I remember was that NONE of my games or downloaded programs would work.  None of them.  Hell, it was a success if the download wasn't bugged.  I'm staying on XP until there's a game comes out that needs Windows 7.

Offline CythieusTopic starter

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2009, 10:36:58 AM »
I don't know where people get this cherry pie and ice cream vision of upgrading, I mean I remember that when I upgraded to ME it was the worse of the times I had but with 98, XP and every other PC upgrade I made I had issues. I couldn't get Service Pack 2 for XP for the longest at one point because it would crash during install and mess up programs when I did get it so I had to roll it back.

Offline Morven

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2009, 10:38:01 AM »
I suspect that was with the free beta thing, right?  Not the finished product?

Offline CythieusTopic starter

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2009, 10:56:01 AM »
Oh I knew better than to get that, I have a full version of Ultimate now. But yeah that Beta thing was buggy. Many of Vista's issues started with a buggy Beta too and people actually complained as if it was done.

Offline Morven

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2009, 10:59:38 AM »
I also think Microsoft should be WAY stricter on hardware manufacturers and be much more aggressive about calling them out for bad drivers and the like.  Because every time a bad driver makes Windows not work well, who gets blamed?  MS.

Offline CythieusTopic starter

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2009, 11:01:44 AM »
I also think Microsoft should be WAY stricter on hardware manufacturers and be much more aggressive about calling them out for bad drivers and the like.  Because every time a bad driver makes Windows not work well, who gets blamed?  MS.

My issue with it is this, Vista comes out Auto CAD doesn't work. I'm not genius and I don't claim to know a lot about programing and the like (when it comes to Hardware I know a lot more than the average person) but how come Auto CAD didn't just rebuild their system. I mean It didn't work on Vista because Vista was new and built from the ground up, so they needed to build something from the ground up. That's necessary sometimes, not blaming the new thing for not working with old shit. That doesn't even make sense.

Offline Morven

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2009, 11:18:29 AM »
If you run AutoCAD, you are doing so for professional purposes (nobody drops $4000+ on software unless they need it badly, or almost $1000 even for AutoCAD LT).  Under no circumstances should you be upgrading anything AutoCAD relies on until you have official word from them that it works.  Doing otherwise is risking what you are relying on to make money for you and your employer.

I don't know the specifics, but AutoCAD appears to work on Vista now, so clearly whatever issues there were were resolved.  It could very well have been that there were bugs in the initial release of Vista that broke AutoCAD, and they decided to wait for Microsoft to correct them rather than working around them.

It wasn't like you couldn't still buy a computer with XP installed instead of Vista.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2009, 11:30:28 AM »
I make it a point when I was a MS user (not now.. Snow Leopard is my current OS of choice) of waiting till at LEAST 6 months or a SP update came out to buy the new Windows. I have terrible memories of Windows 3 and having to use memory managers for this or that program and to be honest it seems to me that 95/98  was the last time they put all the tools out for the people to use.

If you don't know half the things to do it's really HARD to work on tweaking the OS (and I do that a LOT.. ) But, I always felt that the Driver's issues was as much (if not more) the manufacturers fault as it was Vista's.

Offline Karma

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2009, 11:37:43 AM »
Maybe you missed my little joke in my first post... where I called 7 Vista2. I have no illusions about what 7 is, but the fact remains that Vista had issues that remained unresolved for over a year, and were finally fixed in 7. I don't enjoy the implications you're making about why I feel that way, either.

Offline Morven

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2009, 11:39:33 AM »
Yes; I trust Apple enough to upgrade straight away.  Although even then, if there was something I absolutely needed to work, I'd use caution; plus, I always take a full image backup before doing anything like that.

Even so, part of that is because, while I certainly USE all kinds of programs, the list of things I actually NEED to have working on the Mac is:

Terminal
Mail
X11
Xcode
Safari

and all of those come standard with the OS and are extremely unlikely to not work, given that Apple engineers use them all on a frequent basis.

Aside from that, the programs I regularly use otherwise are mostly from fairly small developers who are passionate about their stuff.  They won't leave bugs unfixed.

Offline Morven

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2009, 11:41:22 AM »
I don't enjoy the implications you're making about why I feel that way, either.

Who were you talking to here?  Most of what's been said here hasn't been specifically in response to your post, I think.

Offline CythieusTopic starter

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2009, 11:43:42 AM »
If you run AutoCAD, you are doing so for professional purposes (nobody drops $4000+ on software unless they need it badly, or almost $1000 even for AutoCAD LT).  Under no circumstances should you be upgrading anything AutoCAD relies on until you have official word from them that it works.  Doing otherwise is risking what you are relying on to make money for you and your employer.

I don't know the specifics, but AutoCAD appears to work on Vista now, so clearly whatever issues there were were resolved.  It could very well have been that there were bugs in the initial release of Vista that broke AutoCAD, and they decided to wait for Microsoft to correct them rather than working around them.

It wasn't like you couldn't still buy a computer with XP installed instead of Vista.

AutoCAD was the main reason that people called Vista out for incapatibility in the business sector to my knowledge. There were issues with Campaign Cartographer 3 which seemed to be resolved and somehow are now back on Windows 7. Like I said before, I had Vista for a year and I never had issues from it. The people now who are singing the priases of 7 seem to either have never tried Vista on a computer made for it, or had issues that weren't related to Vista (shitty sound cards and old software issues)

Likewise, I think Windows and the other companies should jump on these manufacturers because I worked at Fry's for a while and I remember that one of the biggest issues was Vista and people wanting XP. Computer users need to learn they can't hold the rest of us back because they don't want to progress. Some guy came in and bought a 4000 laptop and they had the audacity to get mad because there was no plug for his dial up modem and blamed the salesperson (he saw and touched it in real time).

The manufacturers were making XP machines, and when Vista came out, they literally just tossed Vista into it and shipped it with that "Made for Vista" sticker on it.

I could tell they weren't Vista computers by the specs.

I am running an HP with 2 gigs of ram and 1.6 gig dual core, things work great for me with just that. My friend is running a quad core and he says he never notice memory issues what so ever. That just goes to show a lot of it was a problem with specs.

@Karmentok: What about my issue with CC3 that was fixed in Vista and is back with 7? Every OS has issues, how long was XP out before Service Pack 2? No one seems to remember that.

Service Pack 2 was 3 years later...that's 3 years of messed up issues XP had
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 11:46:02 AM by Odin »

Offline Karma

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2009, 11:46:32 AM »
I don't know where people get this cherry pie and ice cream vision of upgrading
That's necessary sometimes, not blaming the new thing for not working with old shit. That doesn't even make sense.

Comments like this that are laying ignorance at the feet of anyone that didn't like Vista. To me, you're sounding annoyingly defensive.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2009, 11:52:54 AM »
Comments like this that are laying ignorance at the feet of anyone that didn't like Vista. To me, you're sounding annoyingly defensive.

Now now.. don't got blaming folks for having a difference of opinion about what is reasonably 'backwards' compatible. Not everything is going to be Backwards compatible for any varitety of reasons. (I'm sure that some stuff will always NOT work on the next version of something)

Offline Morven

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2009, 11:56:59 AM »
AutoCAD was the main reason that people called Vista out for incompatibility in the business sector to my knowledge.

Well, that's dumb.  Any OS upgrade changes things.  Microsoft can't be expected to work around every bug in every application everyone uses (and in this context, doing something undocumented with the OS counts as a bug).

Also, a quick Google showed that setting 'windows XP compatibility mode' and 'run as administrator' on the AutoCAD executable made it work.

Huge applications like AutoCAD inevitably have a drawn out process for changes and bug fixes, and this may mean that if major rewrites are needed of components to run properly in a new OS, the patches may not be available for a while after its release.

Offline Karma

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2009, 11:58:28 AM »
I understand that. It's the way in which Odin is saying it, not that he's saying it. At no point have I said that I expected more from Vista than I got. After all, I remember those three years of XP horror quite vividly, considering I used Win2K until then for that very reason. What's getting at me is that Odin seems to be saying that we should upgrade and just bear with it because we're supposed to or some nonsense like that. It should be perfectly acceptable to anyone that someone is not yet comfortable with a new, drastic change like an OS switch, especially if the switch causes unnecessary problems like driver conflicts that take either time or money to fix.

This thread was supposed to be about discussing Windows 7, not Odin being an apologist for Vista, in the first place.

Offline CythieusTopic starter

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2009, 12:02:55 PM »
Comments like this that are laying ignorance at the feet of anyone that didn't like Vista. To me, you're sounding annoyingly defensive.

I think from here you look defensive with comments like that. You can't be a realistic person and expect a company to make their new program to work with millions that came before. This is just why Mac did what they did and got so closed off for so long because when you are directly watching who develops for you, you're not having to worry so much about the issues of incompatibility.

But I blame the Vista griping on consumer ignorance more than anything. Most of these people weren't there for windows 3.1 and they don't know what a real driver issue is.

I'm not being apologist for Vista, Vista might as well have just been continued with 7. This is like getting XP Media center or SP 2. It's not a new OS. And you're putting words in my mouth, I didn't say they should just upgrade and bear it.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2009, 12:08:20 PM »
I think that if MS wants to get the stability of something like OS X, they are going to have to change their design philosophy. One of the problems that my buddy the programming geek is (This guy LOVES to program code and hack) pointed out was the amount of bloat and redundancy in the windows layout.

He admited he didn't have a better design criteria for how to fix it, but he said a new approach was needed and given some of the stuff I've seen him code/design I figure he knows more than me. (Writing virii for his test bench because he was bored...using the MicroMin shop to physically upgrade his processor speeds.)


Offline CythieusTopic starter

Re: Windows 7 Discussion
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2009, 12:14:13 PM »
I think that if MS wants to get the stability of something like OS X, they are going to have to change their design philosophy. One of the problems that my buddy the programming geek is (This guy LOVES to program code and hack) pointed out was the amount of bloat and redundancy in the windows layout.

He admited he didn't have a better design criteria for how to fix it, but he said a new approach was needed and given some of the stuff I've seen him code/design I figure he knows more than me. (Writing virii for his test bench because he was bored...using the MicroMin shop to physically upgrade his processor speeds.)



Oh yeah, Windows needs to stop doing a lot and start trying to actually innovate and also be more open. Because I mean they lock themselves off from other programs and block them out. I noticed like six features in Vista that were straight out of Mac and I notice one in 7 that is too. Also, how come Mac OS costs less and seems to have more?