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Author Topic: Book Banning  (Read 7327 times)

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Offline Hunter

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2006, 04:04:41 AM »
I wasn't really planning on validating my argument but if you insist....

"In 2001, PBS aired a documentary on the J.K. Rowlings phenomenon. This special was quite unbiased and extremely revealing. The docudrama pointed out many of the pagan and real occult parallels in the books. They also interviewed witches to validate the fact that the information contained in the stories is more than just fantasy. (PBS is not part of the religious right)"

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/harry_potter_and_the_occult.html

Offline Lilac

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2006, 04:15:54 AM »
Thank you, though the site you linked to does not mention many specifics.  Most of us here are quite well aware, at least peripherally, of the neopagan movements and that yes, J.K. Rowling drew inspiration from them and their inspirations, just like J.R.R. Tolkein drew from myth.

"evil themes, demonic activity, murder, evil blood sacrifice, and teaching children all of this."

Is what the majority of us see to be absurd.  Not that witchcraft or spells are a part of it (which they obviously are).

Personally, I think she's a bit loopy for believing in spells and witchcraft, but that's another point.

Offline Elvi

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2006, 04:28:06 AM »
However, you are again, not giving us your opinion Hunter, but a direct quote from an internet site from some-one elses opinion.

I am sure, should I decide to spend the time, find several other none Christian religious sites that debunk the whole of what has been said on that one.
Infact, if I wished to, I could probably find the statement made by the Archbishop Of Durham, on that subject where he said it was absolute nonsense to look at books such as Harry Potter as evil and coruptive and that they were mere modern day fairy tales there to expand a child's imagination and perhaps give them the thrill of being a little frightened.

He also pointed out the fact that the bible with it's smiting, stoning, raping and drowning, casting out evil spirits and crucifictions, if looked at in the same context, would be far more horrifying to a child than fiction such as Harry Potter, because, after all, the bible is seen, by several religions as fact.

Offline Hunter

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2006, 04:47:32 AM »
However, you are again, not giving us your opinion Hunter, but a direct quote from an internet site from some-one elses opinion.


I gave my opinion on the very first page of the topic (see below).  As for the site that I quoted, I was apparently being called to defend my position (I took your post to be a very hostile one) and so therefore I supplied the logic behind my thinking.

I'm not going to debate it with you (because I happen to agree with the woman trying to get the books banned).

Offline Elvi

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2006, 04:50:01 AM »
So, I believe the change is from she is correct to I think she is correct?

That still does not validate your arguement, nor does it cover the point that Lilac raised about you adding nothing to a discussion other than a blank comment.
Leaving us unable to confirm nor deny that your point of view is right/wrong/or you are talking out of your behind.

You see this as hostile Hunter?
If this is the post that you are speaking of, then I apologise, it was not intended to be so.

Offline Ariabella

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2006, 07:00:25 AM »
He also pointed out the fact that the bible with it's smiting, stoning, raping and drowning, casting out evil spirits and crucifictions, if looked at in the same context, would be far more horrifying to a child than fiction such as Harry Potter, because, after all, the bible is seen, by several religions as fact.


And speaking as one who had nightmares every time she tried to read fairy tales as a child, I can actually back that up. But my point is, and has been mentioned numerous times, this is a fantasy tale which encourages children to read, which I applaud. I haven't read them yet, like Max, and I probably never will, due to time constraints and their length. But every fairy tale and fantasy story over time has incorporated many of the same topics. Anything Tolkien, which was actually based in Christianity, Grimm's Fairy Tales and numerous children books that I read over the years.

Harry Potter is not intended for the very young, as was pointed out. Quite frankly, I'd rather the children read a tale that teaches the children about the wrongs of prejudicism and things like that, then as tcost said, glorifying war, building bombs and stuff like that.

Offline Natalie C. Barney

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2006, 01:12:26 PM »
It's popped up hundreds of times.  However, this case I doubt she'll win, thanks to sheer ignorance and the public hearing.

How do you figure?

1) evil themes - Ok, Voldemort, sure.  Malfoys, sure.  But that's . . . hmm . . . 10-25% or te "on-stage" parts of the books, and ignores the other 75-90% of the books which actually teach "good Christian" values - love, friendship, loyalty, etc.  [Magick to many Judeo-Christian based churches and other faiths is EVIL, its a matter of placement in Lord of the Rings the magic is clearly in a fictional worldview. They are put off this takes place in the real world.]

2) witchcraft - That's a laugh.  And based solely on ignorance. [Ditto Witchcraft is still seen as demonic in many Christian and other traditions just becasue a good portion proclaim to use white magic does not mean they see it as a good source giving that power.]

3) demonic activity - Haven't seen any of that in six books so far. [Hello the witches and wizards cast spells, commune with spirits, get their source from a power not of God that to many makes this demonic.]

4) murder - Alright, yep, this one's in there . . . in the books targetting a 14-16 year old audience . . . [Actually two murders the caretaker at the start of the Goblet of Fire and at the end of the Golblet of Fire plus Harry's parents.]

5) evil blood sacrifice - Alright, once. [Once is true.]

6) spells and teaching children - Please . . . waving a wand and spouting pseudo-Latin's got as much to do with "spells" and "teaching children" magic as walking across the street. [The fact they are practicing magic is enough here.]

Simply put think of it this way Lord of the Rings had magic but the world was fictional, the magic was low key compared to Harry Potter and used mainly in defense by the good guys and the movie was laced with Christian images the Eagles, they Talked about heaven in a way suited to the movie the white shores speech by Gandalf and all the same elements you mentioned of Harry Potter in number one above. They don't seem as offended by the idea so much as location in the real world and that not once do any of the witches or wizards talk about religion. That is what I don't like why aren't any Christian or Jewish or Muslim or Confusionist it seems the writer is biased against people of faith. I have the same concerns with Star Trek the only religious themes were is the DS9 series that were seriously covered and hinted at elsewhere. Not that I'm heavily religious being a Secular Humanist leaning to agnosticism but even I tend to be offended when a large natural element in a world is left out like religious belief.

Most of you read the books does any major igure show up and is a practicing Anglican or a practicing of any religion?

Offline VandrenTopic starter

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2006, 01:43:31 PM »
They don't seem as offended by the idea so much as location in the real world and that not once do any of the witches or wizards talk about religion. That is what I don't like why aren't any Christian or Jewish or Muslim or Confusionist it seems the writer is biased against people of faith.

And why should she have to?  The purpose of writing fiction is to entertain, not to teach or push a given set of values.  For Rowling's purpose in writing - discussing racism, genocide, love, loyalty, friendships, etc. religion isn't necessary.  However, for those who want to find it, it's there.  Likewise, why should a secular governemtn bow to the whims of a Christian who gets offended by a book (s)he has never read?

Quote
Most of you read the books does any major igure show up and is a practicing Anglican or a practicing of any religion?

See above.  And, as a Tolkien scholar, there's no overt religion in the entirety of the LotR book(s).  As with Rowling, if you want to see religion in it, that's fine, but you're putting that interpretation there yourself.  Anyone can easily do the same thing with Rowling's work.  On that level, there's no difference.  But, as noted above, why should an author have to espose a religious belief in his/her writing?  Especially if it's not important to the story?

Quote from: Elvi
It's the responcibility of every parent to ensure that their opinions and morals are handed down to their children, whether others see them as right or wrong.
It is not the right for every parent to insist that everything they see as 'bad' to be banned.

If this woman feels that these books are not suitable for her children, then it is up to her to make sure her children don't read them, not to insist that everyone elses don't.

Bingo.  Too many parents, especially in the U.S., want to have children then have their TV, librarians, or someone else raise the kids so they don't have to.  In the process, they seem to feel that it's perfectly alright to trample the civil liberties of everyone else around them.

Quote from: Max
If I am understanding that part correctly, the books would be removed from the school's libraries, but would still be available in the public libraries.

Yep, that's my understanding.  And, it would be alright to remove them if they weren't age appropriate - say if they were written for a high school audience and were appearing in a elementary school library.  That's one thing.  But total removal . . .

Quote
But, some books should be.  I just think we all need to decide which ones to ban.

Definite problem.  Yes, Mein Kampf is banned in Germany, it's illegal to own a copy.  And their reasoning is understandable.  However, that also means that their students, adults, etc. are missing out on an important part of their national history.  True, it's a rather nasty part (like the slaughter of Native Americans in the U.S., America's eugenics program/forced sterilization in the 1930s, Japanese-american internment camps in the 1940s and the Armenian genocide in Turkey), but that makes it even more important to learn from.

Quote
The lady in question doesn't, but at least she seems to be trying to keep harmful books (at least to her very limited understanding) away from her kids.  Many parents might not be bothered to try.

Which she has the right to do . . . however, she doesn't have the right to tell anyone else's children what books they can check out from the library (any library).  That, for me, is the big issue.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2006, 01:45:25 PM by Vandren »

Offline ZK

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2006, 02:00:27 PM »
I agree with you whole heartidly on that, Vandren.

Offline VandrenTopic starter

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2006, 02:02:31 PM »
Just looked over that holysmoke site . . . several dozen Christian and Muslim sects apparently commit "occult crime" every day, according to their vague definition (or lack thereof).

And looked at the inplainsite page.  Most of what they point out as "occult" comes from Rowling's background in Classical Studies.  The rest appears to be typically contradictory . . . according to Christian doctrine, spirits/ghosts don't exist (nor to demons), but demonic possession apparently does . . .  Much of what's left is a bit of a stretch at best.  And misunderstanding - calling the owls, cats, rats, etc. familiars, for instance, when they plainly aren't (can't buy a familiar and these are simply trained animals anyway).  The random quotes with no discussion of their importance is also a classic sign of a poor argument/writer as well.  And their take on the first book's title blatantly ignroes the fact that medieval, Renaissance, and Enlightenment "philisophers" were nearly all devout Christians, calling upon saints, angels, and the Seal of Solomon for their work.

Likewise, referring to "all spirits" are evil entities is blatantly hypocritical.  Afterall, what are saints and angels but spirits . . .

Side note to Natalie . . . who says that magic in Rowling's world doesn't come from a divine source?  She's never stated anything one way or the other, and given that it's a genetic ability, one could easily argue that "God" created wizards and witches in the world - then free will kicks in to determine how the indivdual uses that gift.

Offline VandrenTopic starter

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2006, 02:05:22 PM »
To quote a friend on the listserv that initial post showed up on:

Quote
Yeah.  You see, these books are the reason why we should only study the
classics:  they teach children such a high moral sense of values!  Classical moral values! 

HAMLET (men should kill brothers, marry wives, nephews should kill uncles,and almost everybody should die)

MACBETH (witches! Murder! Killing children! Killing presidents oops Kings!)

MEDEA (mothers should kill children, yay!, no doubt the classics are the reasons for the number of mothers in Texas who kill children)

And finally, THE BIBLE (all those enlightening stories where people kill people, and God kills lots of people too yay--children, never laugh at bald prophets or ELSE).  (collects large pile of stones).  P.S. it's only the OLD Testament which counts, and God totally dictated it.

Oops.  Obviously reading anything is terribly dangerous and we should all just sit down and watch reality TV.

Offline Celestial Goblin

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2006, 02:36:10 PM »
Meh, HP might encourage a kid to try 'magic', but it likely won't work anyway, so what's to worry?
I think it's simpy the woman's intolerance to things associated with 'pagan' and 'new age' beliefs that for example Wicca people have in their religion. I'm sure she'll dislike the 'One Thousand Night Tales' if it was a bestseller too, after all Islam is also a different religion.
Myself, i remember trying to worship greek Olympian gods when i was like, 6 or 7, cause i really loved greek mythology, but really hated having to go to the church every sunday. It lasted like a day or two, and Athena didn't help me with my homework. I drawn an altar for Zeus sakes! And an amphore or something.
Anyway, if the woman thinks HP is a book that describes occult beliefs, okay. But who says those beliefs are inferior to hers? Christians were called a 'weird and dangerous cult' when they were a young religion too.

Offline Hunter

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2006, 03:19:06 PM »
(Last post on the topic by myself and I stand by my opinion.  By quoting the article below, I am drawing on a source that definitely isn't a member of the 'religious right'.  The article author claims to both be an active practicer of witchcraft and a fan of the harry potter series.)
   
http://www6.aeonflux.net/~io/index2.html

"Real Witchcraft? in Harry Potter?
Yes. J.K. Rowling has done her homework. Her hidden references are so numerous, and her knowledge so deep, that I'm certain she has done much research on the subject of real sorcery. Many of her characters are named after famous occultists of the past, many of her fantastic spells actually exist, and her magical creatures are straight out of ancient mythology.
She is writing about the same witchcraft that I study at home, far away from Hogwarts! You see, I'm one of the few people who actually know how to use flying broomsticks and magic mirrors, wart potions and magic wands. Apparently, so does she. I recognise much of J. K. Rowling's work from Middle Age grimoires I've read."

Offline VandrenTopic starter

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2006, 03:23:56 PM »
(Last post on the topic by myself and I stand by my opinion.  By quoting the article below, I am drawing on a source that definitely isn't a member of the 'religious right'.  The article author claims to both be an active practicer of witchcraft and a fan of the harry potter series.)
   
http://www6.aeonflux.net/~io/index2.html

Oh!  This wacko!  I think this is the same person who's been trying to get the British government to issue him a license to fly his broom for over a decade now.  Also claimed that the people in the movies were flying their's the wrong way because they put the bristles in the back.  With a few exceptions, all the pagans and Wiccans I know think he's an utter looney and a disgrace to their faith.

And I see that this person's not actually provided citation info for the supposed sources of the information.  Sorry, not buying it.

On a second read, this isn't the same person.  However I'd still not take anything on the site seriously as the site author states: "Any information given on this website is intended . . . for entertainment value only."  (I editted out the "historical" part, due to questionable veracity.)  Alright, two things get cited (from the same author), though no translator is noted . . . and given the titles both works were written in Latin . . . though at least one of the books actually exists.

Once again, no one is denying that Rowling draws upon classical and medieval sources.  However, the idea that a child reading the books can "learn" to be a witch and cast spells and whatnot it utterly preposterous - about as likely as doing the same by watching Charmed.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2006, 03:36:46 PM by Vandren »

Offline Elvi

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #39 on: April 17, 2006, 03:32:54 PM »
Again Hunter, what is your opinion and why?
You are giving us other peoples opinions not your own.

I am an athiest, I do not believe in God, yet my daughter had MY copy of the bible (infact two, one the childrens bible that I had as a child), she wants to go to church, I myself will not go, but if she insists I will arrange for her to go with someone that I know, a very good friend of the family.

I am very very against religion, some more than others and christianity is at the top of the list, but because she enjoys reading the bible, calls herself a christian and reads/sings christian songs I am not going to dissown her.
So.......why should the opposite apply?


Offline Natalie C. Barney

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2006, 03:39:43 PM »
Well I have to disagree with one point any writing is influential and thereby its important for a writer to use a certain decorum in how they treat his or her material. Even a work of fiction can hold great authority and influence on the mind and on the morals. Harry Potter is widely read and therefore has power especially over impressionable minds of the young. Now I for one think a writer has a solemn power- such as a film maker can influence the masses and a news reporter has the obligation to seek the truth and report it. Now it was mentioned Lord of the Rings never mentioned religion. It is true there were no churches BUT its clear that Gandalf and others acting in accord with a higher power of light. Elven magic was drawn from the fires of the Eldar. Gandalf returned with the express purpose of fighting evil in humanities last stand after passing beyond this viel to the next world.  Even Gollum had his part to play and there was a "power beyond" guiding fate. Plus it was set in a fictional world not the real one where Harry Potter is superimposed upon so there is a difference. In our world religion is a major force with organized sects.

That is the crux I studied the occult religions including Satanism (traditional and Lavey) and much of what is in the movie has strong ties to the Left Hand Path traditions. The power of the individual over the world, looking down on other without such gifts, summoning monsters, casting curses, dark rituals and shapechanging not to mention its all done devoid of a faith. So I can see why Christian parents would see this as a threat.

I just pointed out their views here but like I said having these witches and wizards not even acknowledge among some characters they are religious seems downright arrogant of the author and overlooks an important factor in the real world. And the world of Harry Potter has ties to the real world deeper than any other novel.

As for the classics many of those works are strictly meant for adults and not meant for younger people a better comparison would be the Oz series another fine series and the Narnia series written by a Christian and with many fantasy elements.


Offline Lilac

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #41 on: April 17, 2006, 03:43:31 PM »
I am an athiest, I do not believe in God, yet my daughter had MY copy of the bible (infact two, one the childrens bible that I had as a child), she wants to go to church, I myself will not go, but if she insists I will arrange for her to go with someone that I know, a very good friend of the family.

I am very very against religion, some more than others and christianity is at the top of the list, but because she enjoys reading the bible, calls herself a christian and reads/sings christian songs I am not going to dissown her.
So.......why should the opposite apply?

While that's very tolerant of you, might I suggest also introducing her to Unitarianism and Gnosticism?  I still find the latter in particular to be especially fascinating. ^_^

You should, at least, see to it that she understands a bit of the history of how Christianity came to be.  And, perhaps, take a look at a few other faiths.

Offline Lilac

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #42 on: April 17, 2006, 03:51:32 PM »
Well I have to disagree with one point any writing is influential and thereby its important for a writer to use a certain decorum in how they treat his or her material. Even a work of fiction can hold great authority and influence on the mind and on the morals. Harry Potter is widely read and therefore has power especially over impressionable minds of the young. Now I for one think a writer has a solemn power- such as a film maker can influence the masses and a news reporter has the obligation to seek the truth and report it. Now it was mentioned Lord of the Rings never mentioned religion. It is true there were no churches BUT its clear that Gandalf and others acting in accord with a higher power of light. Elven magic was drawn from the fires of the Eldar. Gandalf returned with the express purpose of fighting evil in humanities last stand after passing beyond this viel to the next world.  Even Gollum had his part to play and there was a "power beyond" guiding fate. Plus it was set in a fictional world not the real one where Harry Potter is superimposed upon so there is a difference. In our world religion is a major force with organized sects.

The Lord of the Rings was set in our world.  Middle Earth is the Mediterranean, and Tolkien said so himself.  Tolkein was very specific in eliminating direct religious references from his work, keeping it clear of any given religion.  He had a lot of conflict with C.S. Lewis (I still believe the man to be an athiest, just milking Christians for their money) about this point.

Quote
That is the crux I studied the occult religions including Satanism (traditional and Lavey) and much of what is in the movie has strong ties to the Left Hand Path traditions. The power of the individual over the world, looking down on other without such gifts, summoning monsters, casting curses, dark rituals and shapechanging not to mention its all done devoid of a faith. So I can see why Christian parents would see this as a threat.

Traditional Satanism?  Like those little guidebooks certain inquisitors wrote?

Offline VandrenTopic starter

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #43 on: April 17, 2006, 03:57:13 PM »
Well I have to disagree with one point any writing is influential

Who are you disagreeing with?

Quote
and thereby its important for a writer to use a certain decorum in how they treat his or her material. Even a work of fiction can hold great authority and influence on the mind and on the morals.

Ah, ok, let's toss out Shakespeare (murder, incest, regicide), Chaucer (rape, incest, murder, anti-Semitism), the Bible (rape, murder, selling one's daughter into prostitution to save oneself), the Koran, etc. etc.  Their writers never considered such things.

Quote
Harry Potter is widely read and therefore has power especially over impressionable minds of the young.

Ah, yes, must protect those impressionable minds . . . thirty years ago, "weak minded" women were included in that.  Children can separate between fiction and reality as young as 3-4 years old.  Read some Vygotsky, Luria, and other developmental psychologists.

Quote
It is true there were no churches BUT its clear that Gandalf and others acting in accord with a higher power of light.

Really?  I've read the books at leasto nce a year for the last 16 years and nope, that's not especially clear.  In fact, he claims to be a servant of the Secret Fire (FotR, Ballantine 1965, 429).  But the Balrog also serves fire, so that says nothing, unless you choose to interpret it as religious.  Having read Tolkien's letters, only once does he refer to religion in even those.  And that was while writing to C.S. Lewis, there he claimed Gandalf as an angel.  But only there.

Quote
In our world religion is a major force with organized sects.

And your point is?  This says nothing.

Quote
That is the crux I studied the occult religions including Satanism (traditional and Lavey) and much of what is in the movie has strong ties to the Left Hand Path traditions.


Again, just your own interpretation . . . which is fine, but that doesn't mean everyone else has to intrepret it that way.  Nor that this was Rowling's intent.  Not that any of the Christians lambasting the books knows any of this.

Quote
I just pointed out their views here but like I said having these witches and wizards not even acknowledge among some characters they are religious seems downright arrogant of the author and overlooks an important factor in the real world. And the world of Harry Potter has ties to the real world deeper than any other novel.

Hmm . . . last I looked, Ed McBain, Richard Wright, Ken Kesey, William Golding, and Tim O'Brien (all writers of contemporary fiction) have characters killing people, stealing from people, and whatnot.  No mentions of religion in them either.  Once again, who says that an author has to include religion in their novels?  Seems pretty arrogant to be telling them that they have to, when it has nothing to do with their story.

Quote
As for the classics many of those works are strictly meant for adults and not meant for younger people a better comparison would be the Oz series another fine series and the Narnia series written by a Christian and with many fantasy elements.

Ah, yes.  Killing little old ladies, stealing, murder (all conducted by the hero[in]es, I might add), and other related themes.  Yep.  Uh huh.  Sure.  Those're better.  I might add that Hobbit was a children's book (initally reviewed by a 10 year old) and is focused on theft, lying, cheating, breaking out of prison after being lawfully convicted, and rebelling against the regime in power.

Offline Elvi

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #44 on: April 17, 2006, 04:02:05 PM »
Lilac, we actually, for a non religious household, have more discussions with her over religion and politics and how they intertwine, than I guess many religious homes.

She is brought up in a multicutural/national/religous enviroment.
She has my two bibles because they are the religious books that I had, my family are a mixture of catholic/church of england/babtist/methodist and contipestal.

Beast girl had her first brush with Budism when she was two months old, went until she was five to a Hindu day care centre and decided when she was seven that she really should be Jewish because she liked the men singing.

I will certainly attempt to discuss different religions/concepts with her and wiil suport her in a search for a religion she is happy with, if that is what she has the need to do.
I can open the doors, she has to walk through.

The only other thing I will add to this debate at the moment is:
C.S.Lewis "Fine upstanding christian....." *cough* *choke*

 

Offline Lilac

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #45 on: April 17, 2006, 04:07:45 PM »
Well that wasn't entirely my point.  I think anyone interested in Christianity should be familiar with Gnosticism.

Of all things, it was not rejected because they believed that Yahweh was evil, but because they allowed women to teach.  Clearly, that was absurd. >_>

Would have a few words to say about that...

Offline Hunter

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #46 on: April 17, 2006, 04:09:31 PM »
Again Hunter, what is your opinion and why?
You are giving us other peoples opinions not your own.

I've given my opinion several times.  You haven't been listening.  I've said several times that I agree with the woman trying to get the books removed from the public school.

Offline Kurtz webber

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Re: Book Banning
« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2006, 04:20:42 PM »
I want the books replaced with something by a decent fantasy author but thats just coz i reckon the books are nowhere near as good as a lot of other ones i read and i am irritated at how popular they are comparitively :p

On a more serious note the whole courtcase is total crap by an ignorant women. If u wanted to stop kids learning 'evil' take away their games console first. 'tards...

Sorry to make my point a little more seriously:

People seem to think kids will just copy anything they see / read if that is the case then we have a trully massive problem and the solution is not trying desperatly to remove everything bad they can see. Thats impossible. If your afraid your kids will blindly copy anything they see and read then teach them to think.

To be honest its a vital ability for anyone: to be able to think over a subject and come to an informed decision on wheter its right or not. The specific situation is not too relevant.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2006, 04:42:39 PM by Kurtz webber »

Offline Elvi

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #48 on: April 17, 2006, 04:32:52 PM »
Well that wasn't entirely my point. I think anyone interested in Christianity should be familiar with Gnosticism.

Of all things, it was not rejected because they believed that Yahweh was evil, but because they allowed women to teach. Clearly, that was absurd. >_>

Would have a few words to say about that...

OOPS...Sorry Lilac, got side tracked there.....
There was supposed to be a mention of that in my post.
At the age of 10 life and religion is too confusing an issue to begin bringing in this sort of thing, I have trouble getting my head around it all myself.
(Though I did briefly explain what Gnostic was when she asked what an agnostic was)
 

Offline Ariabella

Re: Book Banning
« Reply #49 on: April 17, 2006, 05:11:09 PM »
To me, it's much like the whole bit with we shouldn't have this on tv, and you shouldn't listen to this music, becuase if you watch Looney Tunes, you'll jump off a cliff and if you listen to Judas Priest you'll want to commit suicide. I grew up on Looney Tunes and never once emulated Wile E. Coyote and I love Judas Priest, never once did I hear them tell me to kill myself.

Play a record backwards and hear the voice of Satan? Tried it, sounded like gobbldegook too me.

Point is, parents have the responsibility to teach their children right and wrong and to make the right choices. If everything you see/read/hear makes you act out, then there's a bigger problem.

Bottom line, children need their minds and imaginations engaged and with the loss of so much music and arts programs in school, why discourage their reading age appropriate material? If it's against your religion, so be it, don't allow your child to watch/read/listen. Don't deprive the other children of expanding their minds.

Reading takes the world to many places and worlds.