Kylie you are one cluey girl.
you would make a good benevolent dictator I think.
Hee, wow thanks... I wonder. I might be a little too impatient to get all the "ducks" lined up
In Kylie's view ... which seems simular in some ways to my own
(at least in core values, however she does seem considerably more eloquent and probably more educated on the matter ... )
Puah! I am about to crack up. At least someone is still learning about more of what the Greeks actually did to organize their people besides orate and go to the theatre. Which was all interesting too... Just, I have some sneaking suspicion that with the modern fluidity of capital, we have twisted the Greek notion of theatre into a really manipulative spectacle. Something known as advertising or propaganda, but these days it has a cultist effect in producing a constrictive race to property for many / sense of entitlement for a few.
Kate, can you say more about how the Greeks viewed the function of religion or spirituality (and that versus
theatre)? I'm curious because thinking about public spectacles like this reminded me of Henry (Culture Against Man
), who wrote that today we actually (mis)use advertising much like an evangelical religion.
better seating in amphitheater's during plays or orations (which was not THEIR seat... it just happened to be offered to them at times they did attend ) ...
I think there is something to this. It could, under certain orders, be misused. I'm not positive if (or when exactly) there were duels and such in Greece, but the modern US Senate has certainly been prone to assumption
of privilege and process that can elbow out service, and historically even turned the place violent... However, I do think it is very important that extra privileges be linked somehow to when people are actually connected to a project somehow. Today, it's more like, if one has the numbers in the bank or the capacity to waste other people's time massively (for instance, with filibuster and intimidation politics), then others are pressured not to claim that reality could be moved any other way -- however practical and popular the alternatives might prove to be.
They realised one thing very quickly - the more possessions you own the more they own you - if they had 40 houses - they need to clean more, there is more to protect more security, more "insurance" less fraction of wealth to enjoy at any one given time.
I wonder what their concept of "gifts" might have been...
For example, China has long had an idea that more stamps of ownership on a painting actually can make that piece more interesting. It imbues the work with an added social history... To me, this also suggests at least conceptually, there was some sense that only so many works could be enjoyed at once anyway... To the extent that a class has way too much stuff -- and ideally, to the extent that some of that stuff is something many people actually have some interest in finding a common use for -- why not keep passing some things on to others who will actually use and share them? While there have been wealth disparities and a fair bit of bluster about showing off in Asia too, the gift as a diplomatic gesture and
furtherance of some cause has a certain history there.
she wouldn't easily be able to liquidate her "investment" easily - as her "wealth" is more an understanding and a range of quodos and privileges that is quiet localised.. her running away doesn't let her keep that "work" - but she still benefits from it a lot when she is in the town, because she has a lot to loose and nothing to gain running away, she unlikely would make trades that give her good short term returns but poor effect on the community as a whole (as doing so makes her loose qudos she earned)
I think this is really vital...... The general privatization of core services, massive real estate, infrastructure, parks, security and warfare today... Combined with the flight of capital to sites of poorer labor, different cultures with vulnerable markets, and a notion of international "development" that crowds out working native systems just as soon as a "crisis" can be manufactured... All of this has brought deep alienation, urban architecture that presumes
systemic crime and violence, class conflict, and North versus South hostility (in certain forms, also known as "terrorism").
Capitalism tends to claim that the thinkers, inventors and investors of the market should have the privilege to develop anything they want wherever they can manage to go... So as things stand, they often "manage" from remote "heights" of the system while delegating the work to middle managers who parcel it out to desperate or technocratic (or sometimes plain thuggish) lower agents... Each of whom is removed from worker communities or from waste/restructuring sites -- places where the costs and suffering are most visible.
taking over a greek town wasn't easy as everyone wanted to save their neighbor, and the powerful wouldn't easily be abandoning things (which was 1/2 the reason why the powerful ensured that decent walls were maintained etc ... for their own sake).
This is really interesting, too. Today lots of people are screaming, oh "socialism" will make us weak... The Soviet Union is typically held as an example. And oddly enough, considering that the impact of American military spending on Soviet plans and moreover, on the longer-term American
economy is not explicitly scrutinized there! It has been some time, but I recall reading that spending on for example, large navies has historically been a considerable drain on the economic progress of nations...
because there really wasn't a linear return on investment for many tasks (ie you dont get an extra dollar working an extra hour) ... many had free time to spend not working...
There are many fields that are set for multitasking, seasonal effort, or work in series over longer periods. Certain artistic projects, pastoral labor, perhaps some agriculture, tourism even... If these can be rewarded in something other than a linear and immediate monetary payment, there could be more incentives for people to do them better, develop the methods during down seasons, take on a second occupation not because they have to make X amount more money but because it's really a second occupation they are interested in, etc. Thanks for the post. I'm feeling again like many of us are not being taught a whole lot more about (even Western) history than just the canon of reading in Classics. But that was quite encouraging.