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Author Topic: Abortion  (Read 12146 times)

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Offline JudeTopic starter

Re: Abortion
« Reply #50 on: October 08, 2009, 08:10:43 AM »
1)  I'm willing to bet you have no idea how often babies end up tossed in dumpsters.  I know I don't have the slightest clue.  If you're going to seriously use that as a claim to support your argument, it would be nice to have an idea of what "so many" is.

2)  Even if that is the case, this in no way speaks of adoption being a failed solution.  Adoption requires a lot of time for the process to occur, knowledge of it as a viable solution, and lots of effort.  The sort of people who toss a baby in a dumpster probably aren't thinking very clearly and/or are looking for a quick fix to their problem; they obviously don't care about the kid if they're doing that to them.

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2009, 08:16:50 AM »
1)  I'm willing to bet you have no idea how often babies end up tossed in dumpsters.  I know I don't have the slightest clue.  If you're going to seriously use that as a claim to support your argument, it would be nice to have an idea of what "so many" is.

Isn't one baby that ends that way more than enough?

I don't say adoption is a failed solution. But there's a line between having it as one option and having it as the only option = forcing women to actually deliver babies they don't want. The health risk and stress it forces on them during the pregnancy is in my opinion way too much to have someone else decide for you if you want to undergo it or not.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2009, 08:17:52 AM by jouzinka »

Offline JudeTopic starter

Re: Abortion
« Reply #52 on: October 08, 2009, 08:21:00 AM »
One baby being dropped in a dumpster out of 400 million residents in the United States doesn't concern me.  Freak occurrences will always happen, it's all about the odds and the ratios.  It's not possible to create a perfect world, so we have to do the best we can.

And I would agree with you in the first instance, but after that if you continue to have sex irresponsibly and end up with the same problem that's where we start to diverge.  If there was evidence that could be produced in court that birth control was used and failed in both circumstances I would feel differently (though I do not know if such would be scientifically possible--though blood samples would show it possibly?).

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #53 on: October 08, 2009, 08:29:21 AM »
One baby being dropped in a dumpster out of 400 million residents in the United States doesn't concern me.  Freak occurrences will always happen, it's all about the odds and the ratios.  It's not possible to create a perfect world, so we have to do the best we can.
A born, which is far more "palpable" a being than a fetus, doesn't concern you, yet here you are, fighting for the rights of those that aren't even born yet.
And I would agree with you in the first instance, but after that if you continue to have sex irresponsibly and end up with the same problem that's where we start to diverge.  If there was evidence that could be produced in court that birth control was used and failed in both circumstances I would feel differently (though I do not know if such would be scientifically possible--though blood samples would show it possibly?).
All right and where do you draw the line? Say you have a 38yo mother, who had an abortion when she was 18 due to a misstep and here she is, 38 with failed barrier contraception (pesar, condom and the like which you can't prove), pregnant and wanting to have an abortion, because she already has children. She obviously falls into your 47% category, so you put her on trial? And then what? If she can't prove she was using a condom that ruptured you force her to have the baby and put it up for an adoption, but whoops, the baby is born disfigured and mentally ill, so nobody wants it for adoption.

What do you do?

Force the mother to raise the child?

Offline Oniya

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #54 on: October 08, 2009, 08:36:11 AM »
Recently, a friend of mine became pregnant.  She has always wanted to be a mother.  She has a wonderful man in her life. 

Unfortunately, she found out that the wall of her uterus is not formed properly.  It is far too thin, and the stretching required by pregnancy would cause it to rupture, killing both of them.

Tell me:  What 'options' should have been considered.

Currently, I have no health insurance, and struggle from paycheck to paycheck as sole breadwinner.  My husband and I use protection.  If I were to get pregnant, I would not be able to afford prenatal care, much less the fees necessary for a normal delivery - and gods help me if there was a problem delivery.  Sure, adoption is an 'option', and I have reasonable assurance that I could go through a normal delivery, but the monetary issues (lost wages + medical bills = lost house) would completely destroy us.

Tell me:  What 'options' should be considered?

Now, instead of some faceless person on the Internet, put yourself or your girlfriend in these scenarios.

Offline JudeTopic starter

Re: Abortion
« Reply #55 on: October 08, 2009, 08:38:46 AM »
The biggest problem I have with the "It's my body, I can do what I want with it" argument is that it's inconsistent.  We tell people what to do with their bodies all the time as part of law.

Even if you ignore the fact that all law essentially governs what we do with our body (i.e. murder is doing something with your body to take someone else's life), we even have laws on an internal level which govern what we can and cannot do to ourselves.  You can legally be stopped from committing suicide, taking drugs, and many other internal-focused actions.

Even if you believe the harm principle (i.e. if an action does not harm anyone other than yourself it should be allowed) there's still the fact that you are harming a life that would be without your interference; one which you directly created fully knowing it could happen with your actions.

The truth is, if I had to decide where I fall on the issue, I am pro-choice.  But I can still see the inconsistencies and problems with the arguments on both sides of the issue.  There's nothing productive to be gained from each group sitting on their side of the fence and railing on about how they're totally right and glossing over all of the problems with their position; and make no mistake, there are problems with both sides.

The truth is, I am convinced, there is no perfect position to take on abortion.  Someone gets screwed no matter what the policy decision is.  It's all about building a good compromise to minimize the amount of damage done to both side's legitimate concerns.  I just wish people would start talking the whole thing a bit more seriously and productively and less evangelistically.

All right and where do you draw the line? Say you have a 38yo mother, who had an abortion when she was 18 due to a misstep and here she is, 38 with failed barrier contraception (pesar, condom and the like which you can't prove), pregnant and wanting to have an abortion, because she already has children. She obviously falls into your 47% category, so you put her on trial? And then what? If she can't prove she was using a condom that ruptured you force her to have the baby and put it up for an adoption, but whoops, the baby is born disfigured and mentally ill, so nobody wants it for adoption.

What do you do?

Force the mother to raise the child?
You bring up a good point.  Change the proposed law so that there's a 10-20 year forgiveness period.

That's the thing; we don't have to get bogged down by specific ideas.  Everyone needs to learn to compromise on their ideals somewhat so that the country can actually conclude this issue in a healthy fashion rather than deepening the growing divide between us on all of these issues.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2009, 08:40:16 AM by Jude »

Offline JudeTopic starter

Re: Abortion
« Reply #56 on: October 08, 2009, 08:43:31 AM »
Recently, a friend of mine became pregnant.  She has always wanted to be a mother.  She has a wonderful man in her life.

Unfortunately, she found out that the wall of her uterus is not formed properly.  It is far too thin, and the stretching required by pregnancy would cause it to rupture, killing both of them.
That's a clearcut case where abortion should absolutely be done.  I wouldn't begrudge anyone who gets one done where the child would live but the mother would die as well.

Currently, I have no health insurance, and struggle from paycheck to paycheck as sole breadwinner.  My husband and I use protection.  If I were to get pregnant, I would not be able to afford prenatal care, much less the fees necessary for a normal delivery - and gods help me if there was a problem delivery.  Sure, adoption is an 'option', and I have reasonable assurance that I could go through a normal delivery, but the monetary issues (lost wages + medical bills = lost house) would completely destroy us.

Tell me:  What 'options' should be considered?

Now, instead of some faceless person on the Internet, put yourself or your girlfriend in these scenarios.
I think you missed the point where I said I wasn't against abortion categorically; just its continual use (which I consider abuse).  In your position I would think it totally justifiable and understandable.

A lot of the issues you're bringing up relate to the healthcare problem, and that's a whole other can of worms which we really shouldn't get into without a derail.  If someone would like to make a spin off topic, I'd be glad to discuss it, however:  I think everyone can agree that we should make effective, quality birth control easily accessible (possibly even free) to anyone who needs it.  You don't even need to make it an issue of human rights, it's a matter of what's best for society as a whole.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2009, 08:54:16 AM by Jude »

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #57 on: October 08, 2009, 08:50:27 AM »
If I were going to be against things because people with different morals than mine might use them to do bad things, I would have been crusading against the child support system years ago. It falls on the same lines as, "I may not like what you say. I may in fact loathe it, but I will - I will - defend your right to say it." The right to choose includes the right to make choices that I may not agree with, but it's still a right. In an ideal world, there would be better education and supportive families for, say, girls who get pregnant in high school.

Pretty much sums up how I feel on the entire thing...

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #58 on: October 08, 2009, 08:57:10 AM »
Specific ideas are ultimately specific people's lives that are going to be affected. A good movie to see about this issue is "If These Walls Could Talk"

One problem I have with this whole "let's ban abortions" issue is that in its essence it's awfully populist. It's so much easier to step up in front of your voters and say: "We ban abortions, because an XY number of children are murdered in them!" than actually step up in front of your voters and say: "Friends, the number of XY abortions is a result of our neglect in raising our children to responsibility and lack of enlightenment in contraception issues. The abortion is misused and it's OUR fault and we have to take actions to remedy this situation."

Why 10 years? Why not five? 5 years is the difference between high school and college graduate, which is a completely different person in regards to maturity... ultimately, who gets to decide how, why... ?

On another note, it is incredibly naive to think that banning abortions will bring an equal rise in natality. Abortions will always be performed. ALWAYS. Sometimes by doctors in hospitals, sometimes by angelic grannies on kitchen tables in the women's houses, with instruments that were hardly boiled over, God forbid sterilized and women will be ending up bleeding to death, or dying in awful pains of total sepsis because of the usage of dirty instruments or in the better case barren, disfigured... Good book to read about how this grey environment existed is "A Case of Need" by Michael Crichton.

In the light of that I'm all for giving the women the choice of doing it legally with all the care that's needed for the procedure to be done right.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2009, 09:02:07 AM by jouzinka »

Offline Oniya

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #59 on: October 08, 2009, 08:57:51 AM »
The problem is, when you declare a procedure illegal, you're doing that for the valid uses as well as the abuses.  What is to stop one of these 'serial abortion' people from going from one clinic to the next, declaring hand-to-heart that this is their first one?  What's to prevent a doctor from declaring a woman who has numerous miscarriages (which, like it or not, are a form of natural abortion) to be 'unfit'?

Every 'plan' to limit availability is going to have some way for people to get around it - whether that's from outright lying to a doctor, or going to a back-alley - or even taking matters into one's own hands, on either the woman's part or the man's.  One of the leading causes of death in pregnant women is homicide.

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #60 on: October 08, 2009, 09:06:32 AM »
I don't agree with it but I could never force my opinion on anyone.  The choice is not something I will ever be faced with so I can't begin to put myself in the place of someone who needs to make that decision.

I do believe, though, that anyone who campaigns against a woman's right to choose that alternative should also campaign to provide the necessary support system a woman will need to give birth to and raise the child.  I hate it when I hear someone say no you shouldn't then turn and walk away as though they've done all they could.


Offline JudeTopic starter

Re: Abortion
« Reply #61 on: October 08, 2009, 09:08:39 AM »
I realize the plan won't be perfect, but even a plan where women who do their best to dodge it and lie about it can get around it is better than the current system where a whopping 47% of all abortions performed are done on people who have had them before.

No matter how you feel about abortion you have to admit that is a shameful statistic that speaks of a great lack of responsibility on behalf of a segment of the population.

And I really don't think this has anything to do with complete ignorance.  I don't think anyone at this point has sex not knowing that a child could come of it.  Even the abstinence only people are aware that there's a good chance their inability to control themselves will result in a earthshattering outcome.  Obviously I think Abstinence Only isn't a productive thing to teach our children and we do need to make birth control more acceptable and face that reality; but that's only one side of things.

I can't understand how anyone can be completely pro-choice and refuse any compromise on the subject when such an attitude has complete disregard for the way a good portion of the country feels.  We don't need a law as extreme as anything I proposed, involving sterilization, but shouldn't we put some protections down, if only to have a law on our books related to this matter which actually reflects the democratic principles of our country instead of an oppressive majority's view?

I am not for banning abortions outright, not now, not ever.  But this is such a counterproductive issue that hurts the country politically in so many ways.

As a people we're going to have to start resolving our political issues by compromise and sacrifice if we want the political process to start working again.  "No, get over it" doesn't work in a relationship, and whether we like it or not, the various factions in our country are related, if only by citizenship.

Generally people accept that extremism is bad, but when it comes to this issue, I just don't get why people can't see that.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2009, 09:11:41 AM by Jude »

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #62 on: October 08, 2009, 09:21:35 AM »
I can't understand how anyone can be completely pro-choice and refuse any compromise on the subject when such an attitude has complete disregard for the way a good portion of the country feels.  We don't need a law as extreme as anything I proposed, involving sterilization, but shouldn't we put some protections down, if only to have a law on our books related to this matter which actually reflects the democratic principles of our country instead of an oppressive majority's view?
I've bitten my tongue long enough for now, but I'd like to point out that I'm always amazed how men feel the clutching need to discuss and bring forth this issue. I haven't, in any debate, hear woman bring this up. Maybe I'm just (un)lucky.

Anyway, I don't think countries need a law to restrict abortions. Countries need every mom, dad, TVs and publishers and whatnot to start leading the kids towards more responsibility and protection when sex is concerned, but that's not a popular issue, I know, plus the results can be expected no sooner than in fifteen or twenty years. I see that putting restrictions is just so much easier...
I am not for banning abortions outright, not now, not ever.  But this is such a counterproductive issue that hurts the country politically in so many ways.
Forgive me for saying so, but I don't see how banning or not banning abortions can hurt a country politically?
As a people we're going to have to start resolving our political issues by compromise and sacrifice if we want the political process to start working again.
Sacrifice? That sounds so noble, but please, tell us what you are personally willing to sacrifice in this issue. As long as you don't come forth, at least to yourself, and say WHAT it is that you'd sacrifice, you're only pushing others to make the sacrifice.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Abortion
« Reply #63 on: October 08, 2009, 09:28:18 AM »
I will keep this simple the child is a living person at conception, as a Libertarian I'm all for the mother having every means available to avoid that from happening but once a child is creates its rights EQUAL the mothers to life. So unless there is a case of self-defense where the mother WILL die from the pregnancy and there is no hope to give the child a chance abortion is murder. In the case of rape and incest the unborn child comes first unless the mothers life is in danger. Adoption or other options including counseling are available.

And what about all the children that are aborted that could be productive citiazens, doctors and tradespeople we eliminate with abortion. We could abort a Einstein or a Bach just as much as a Hitler or Stalin, God has His ways if a child is born its His will. If a child is created the soul and child are sacred.

Offline JudeTopic starter

Re: Abortion
« Reply #64 on: October 08, 2009, 09:30:27 AM »
I've bitten my tongue long enough for now, but I'd like to point out that I'm always amazed how men feel the clutching need to discuss and bring forth this issue. I haven't, in any debate, hear woman bring this up. Maybe I'm just (un)lucky.
That's really nothing short of a personal attack, as it references my personal sex directly.

What exactly is your point anyway; because I'm male my opinion on the matter isn't relevant?

Offline Oniya

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #65 on: October 08, 2009, 09:33:19 AM »
Okay - things that would help:

Education.  You say that you don't think that anyone out there has sex without knowing that a child is a possibility, but I'd disagree, especially with the younger couples, and those that have not had some form of sex ed - which is still only given with parental permission in schools, and there are still parents who think if they don't learn about it, they won't do it.

Availability.  Birth control should be safely and confidentially available - without stigma - as should unbiased counseling regarding the options should it fail.  This should include adoption and motherhood-support as well as abortion.  One thing I'm tired of is people assuming that the 'choice' in pro-choice doesn't include the first two options (which would sort of make it not a choice, wouldn't it?). 

Support.  Regardless of the outcome, the people involved (including the man if he chooses to remain involved) should have the ability to make their decision freely.  While I'm at it, post-natal or post-abortion counseling should be readily available as well.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Abortion
« Reply #66 on: October 08, 2009, 09:57:19 AM »
I agree with Oniya..

Education: I don't mean JUST the girl (or even the boy) but the entire family. Mom and Dad need to understand that kids WILL 'play' and while the average person on this board is aware of that, there is a LARGE percentage of the parental population is in denial ("My child don't do that...")
Teaching the repercussions and impacts as well as the mechanics of sex will do a lot.

Availability: While we're not the WORSE country when it comes to birth control methods that I've been in, we need to be a bit more accessible.  (At one point when I lived in Ireland, they had allowed birth control. IF you could find a doctor who would prescribe and IF you could find a Pharmacist who would fill it.. big IFs at the time)

Other factors play in this.

-Responsibity: Both partners need to be responsible (Not likely to happen in modern society sadly)


All this is fine and good BUT Abortions shouldn't be banned. Why?

Because if you regulate the conditions of the procedure you can control the availability BUT MOST importantly.. if a person wants an abortion..they will GET ONE. Better it to be done by accountable, regulated and trained personel than some back room hack who is doing it for a quick buck.

Because folks, it happened BEFORE Roe v Wade.. and it will happen if Abortion is taken off the books as an option.

You want to do away with Abortion? I got the way you do that.

Change our culture to eliminate it. Don't make it illegal.

Don't shoot our doctors in their church or blow up their clinics or anything like that.

Teach the FULL facts about the consequences of sex and don't act like it's a dirty secret (And I mean the FULL brief.. STDs, Birth Control and the rest..)

Find a way of making folks be more responsbible with their actions (good luck with that my inner cynic says)

Personally, given some of the most fervant anti-abortion folks that I have met are fundies of the first order who think sex is 'dirty' I doubt the pro-life movement will do the steps needed to change our culture to eliminate abortion as an option.

And if anyone out there says that education is being done.. I'm sorry.. My mom worked with the Health Department for two states.. I drove her around several times and met girls who didn't understand that 'sex makes babies'. The amount of ignorance in some teens is truly terrifying.

 

Offline Greenthorn

Re: Abortion
« Reply #67 on: October 08, 2009, 09:57:35 AM »
If everyone can agree that people who use abortions as birth control and repeatedly have them are doing something wrong, why can't the country agree on a compromise position of only punishing those who use abortions as such?

A staggering fact I saw as I was reading through statistics yesterday:  in recent years, 47% of all women who have an abortion have had one before.  That means roughly half of the people who have abortions are guilty of that abuse.  This isn't a small problem by any means, despite how downplayed it is by pro-choice individuals.

Why not require sterilization or some other form of punishment after your second abortion?

Why should someone have the right to have a child later on if they've killed 2 fetuses given to them previously?
This would only effect the results of the statistics if for some reason there were different attitudes in the segmented population.  i.e. if people who self-pay or opt out have different statistical results than those who do not.  I don't know if either of those things would affect the result or if the statistics didn't somehow take those matters into account.

Either way if that was addressed to me and the statistics I provided, I'm gonna have to call logical fallacy on this one; moving the goal post.  You can't ask someone to provide data which has no glaring problems with it and then disregard it by raising the bar after the fact, I met your challenge.

Again, cite please.

Segmented population?  There are different attitudes in each individual, so why not in each segment?

I can ask for you to provide data.  Anyone can.

I just want clarification.

Offline jouzinka

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #68 on: October 08, 2009, 10:20:55 AM »
And what about all the children that are aborted that could be productive citiazens, doctors and tradespeople we eliminate with abortion. We could abort a Einstein or a Bach just as much as a Hitler or Stalin, God has His ways if a child is born its His will. If a child is created the soul and child are sacred.

That depends. If you are a fatalist, then the child has actually no future as a doctor or the next Einstein. Its destiny IS to be aborted.

That's really nothing short of a personal attack, as it references my personal sex directly.

What exactly is your point anyway; because I'm male my opinion on the matter isn't relevant?

If you feel that way, I'm sorry. It wasn't meant as a personal attack, merely an observation. Although, since you ask, I do believe that this whole issue should be more discussed by women, then men, because in the whole scale it will affect women more. Of course men should have a say in the individual case with their partner, but as a nation-wide issue, I'm not so sure. I guess that makes me sexist, yeah, I know.

Offline Valerian

Re: Abortion
« Reply #69 on: October 08, 2009, 10:26:22 AM »
As for the point in red, that came from this link to the Guttmacher research that I posted yesterday. The full statistic reads:

Quote
Each year, about two percent of women aged 15-44 have an abortion; 47% of them have had at least one previous abortion.
There's also a "statement of accuracy" linked at the bottom of that page that discusses their methods.

There's a PDF available from this page that gives some more detailed statistics about those women who have more than one abortion -- actually, there are quite a lot of articles viewable at that site that give a great deal of useful info, so anyone who's interested in more should browse through there.  Their scientific methods and sampling look good.

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #70 on: October 08, 2009, 10:35:00 AM »
Thinking by numbers, saying approximately half the people who have abortions now have had them in the past is not a surprise. How long have abortions been legal? Not long enough for people to fully accept them, especially with such controversy on the issue. The people who are going to trust abortion the most will be those who have tried it in the past. The percentage should decline steadily over time - both because the education and easier access to contraceptives, and because more people will see the procedure as less threatening.

 

Offline Aiden

Re: Abortion
« Reply #71 on: October 08, 2009, 10:39:31 AM »
I had a huge debate with my friends last weekend.

In the end we all hated one another after that because they called me a hypocrite which I really was to be honest.

My views on it
"let the woman decide, it's her body"
BUT (Huge)
If it was my situation
I would forbid the mother of MY child to abort, I would live with an eternal guilt if I knew I did not do anything in my power to not bring my offspring into the world.

Am I ready for a child at my age? No
Do I take the risk by having (un)protected sex?(There is always that risk the pill might not work) Yes
Will I take any and ALL responsibilities for having sex? Yes
 (A few years ago, I was not mature enough to answer this question and I am glad I did not end up with an STD or a pregnant girlfriend in my younger days).

In the end all the statistics and views meant nothing to me since I already know what I would do in this situation.

Offline Greenthorn

Re: Abortion
« Reply #72 on: October 08, 2009, 11:06:11 AM »
Quote
Each year, about two percent of women aged 15-44 have an abortion; 47% of them have had at least one previous abortion.

Thank you Valerian.

Now see, TWO PERCENT of women and out of that TWO PERCENT, 47% have had at least one previous abortion.  The way I saw it posted was that 47% of women who have had an abortion have had one before...there was not a complete statistic mentioning the 2% part (in the post I quoted).  This makes the statistic less shocking to me. 




Again, thank you for the clarification.

Offline Silk

Re: Abortion
« Reply #73 on: October 08, 2009, 11:20:29 AM »

If you feel that way, I'm sorry. It wasn't meant as a personal attack, merely an observation. Although, since you ask, I do believe that this whole issue should be more discussed by women, then men, because in the whole scale it will affect women more. Of course men should have a say in the individual case with their partner, but as a Nationwide issue, I'm not so sure. I guess that makes me sexist, yeah, I know.

Sorry I have to call fowl on this one, because the male is more often than not as equally affected in this, if not more so since it seems common ground that he "Doesn't have a choice"

One of my close friends had sex the girl he had sex with lied that she was on the pill, when she got pregnant she acted as if it was his fault. But she went ahead and had the baby, my friend pleaded with her not to but he didn't get that choice. He now has to give her allmost half his wages to help raise the kid he is not allowed to see, did not want, and from the start was being played for the fool.

 I've said for him to stop paying welfare because she is not letting him see his child but hes spending his now turning 25 life working his butt off for the child that doesn't even know he exists. Should males not get a say in the matter? Should they remain subservient to the females choice and as a result not having a choice in the matter? Just because some guys walk away doesn't mean the women cannot also, but the woman "Can and does" blackmail the father to being her whipping boy.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Abortion
« Reply #74 on: October 08, 2009, 11:42:21 AM »
I had a huge debate with my friends last weekend.

In the end we all hated one another after that because they called me a hypocrite which I really was to be honest.

My views on it
"let the woman decide, it's her body"
BUT (Huge)
If it was my situation
I would forbid the mother of MY child to abort, I would live with an eternal guilt if I knew I did not do anything in my power to not bring my offspring into the world.

Am I ready for a child at my age? No
Do I take the risk by having (un)protected sex?(There is always that risk the pill might not work) Yes
Will I take any and ALL responsibilities for having sex? Yes
 (A few years ago, I was not mature enough to answer this question and I am glad I did not end up with an STD or a pregnant girlfriend in my younger days).

In the end all the statistics and views meant nothing to me since I already know what I would do in this situation.

 So you are for "let the woman decide, it's her body" until it happens to you. Then your stance is "Hell no! I helped make that baby, I should have a say if you wanting to abort it."  You are implying that you would prevent her from getting an abortion if she wanted one. 

 If that's your belief, that is hypocritical