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Author Topic: Ahmadinejad 1, Couric 0? Not quite...think again.  (Read 1228 times)

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Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Ahmadinejad 1, Couric 0? Not quite...think again.
« on: October 01, 2009, 07:54:20 PM »


To those of us who are incapable of logic and common reason, perhaps Ahmadinejad scored a point in his interview with Katie Couric.

Then reality sets in.

This is actually the first I have heard of Marwa El-Sherbini, and that is a shame. Ahmadinejad is correct, she should have been more covered in the media, as well as the ethnic bias that occurred on part of the German court.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Marwa_El-Sherbini



But for every Marwa El-Sherbini, there are how many uncounted tragedies are inflicted on woman at the hands of the professed sons of Islam, that resort to stonings and other cowardly tactics such as acid attacks?


Furthermore, Mr. Ahmadinejad, you are equating the actions of one deranged and intolerant individual to the barbarism of an entire deranged and intolerant national government, that being the government of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

You have highlighted her tragedy to draw attention away from the backward acts of savagery of the world's largest theocracy, committing an even larger injustice on Marwa El-Sherbini in an attempt to legitimize your actions.


Had El-Sherbiniís killer been Persian, Arab, or Muslim in general, would her death have even made your radar? I suspect not.


Mr. Ahmadinejad, you have used a foreign killing of fellow Muslim to legitimize the mass murder and terrorizing of your own population. What kind of fucked up, retarded line of reasoning is this?


No, Mr. Ahmadinejad you havenít scored a point. Youíve only solidified your role as the Mouth of Sauron, the fork-tongued orator of your theocracy of hate. How dare you, Mr. Ahmadinejad, anything the West can do to speed the decline of your government is a worthy cause.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20091001/wl_ynews/ynews_wl936


Quote
Last week, Katie Couric had the tables turned on her. During an interview with Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Couric asked about Neda Soltan, the Iranian female who was shot and killed by Iranian security back in June.

After expressing his regret for the loss of life, Mr. Ahmadinejad pulled out a photo of another woman. He showed it to Ms. Couric and asked if she knew who the woman was. Couric said she didn't, and that's when Ahmadinejad pounced.

Ahmadinejad explained that the woman in the photo is Marwa Ali El-Sherbini. She was stabbed to death in a German court by a neo-Nazi. The Iranian president then asked why the death of Ms. El-Sherbini wasn't being publicized by the media in the same way as Neda's. Ahmadinejad "suggested that the western media ó who turned Neda into a martyr ó ignored Marwa's story."

The interview between Couric and Ahmadinejad took place last week, but the searches really started to pop this morning. Web lookups on "marwa ali el sherbini" and "who is marwa ali el sherbini" both spiked into the thousands.

The National Post writes that comparing the two deaths was a "little absurd," and referenced Hamid Dabashi's editorial for CNN. Mr. Dabashi, a professor at Columbia University, writes that "there are more holes in Ahmadinejad's point than in that proverbial Swiss cheese." Ms. El-Sherbini, Dabashi writes, was the victim of a "vicious act of a neo-Nazi racist, while Neda Aqa Soltan was one among many other victims of violence at the hands of the security apparatus of the Islamic Republic."

Regardless of whether or not the comparison was valid, interest in El-Sherbini's story has been peaked, and Ahmadinejad reaffirmed his status as a tough interview. But Couric didn't back down. Later in the interview, the journalist showed photos of World War II concentration camps to Ahmadinejad, who has called the Holocaust "a lie."  Couric asked, "Is this photo fabricated? Is this photo a lie?"

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Ahmadinejad 1, Couric 0? Not quite...think again.
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2009, 10:29:11 AM »
Don't forget the actions his government has sponsored, and his claims that there are no homosexual Iranians. (And what happens to the poor unfortunate men/women of his country who are is very bad in some cases).

And let us not forget his past a member of the Revolutionary Guard (that is the group he was a member of right?) and the practices/atrocities they did on anyone that irked/crossed them.

Of course men who do atrocities like he has are usually good at deflecting attention to his own crimes.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: Ahmadinejad 1, Couric 0? Not quite...think again.
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2009, 12:25:27 PM »

The list of intolerance and straight up denial from the Iranian government is a mile long, going anywhere from your above-mentioned denial of any homosexuals among their general population to full flat-out denial of the Holocaust on repeated occasions by Ahmadinejad.


But now this. The article writer is either biased toward Iranian policy or incapable of reason, because this is a yarn and a tall tale of bullshit even for a world government. Iran neednít comment on anything the US government has distorted or lied on, given the bombastic scale of this remark.

Offline Chea

Re: Ahmadinejad 1, Couric 0? Not quite...think again.
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2009, 07:44:33 PM »
Meh, In my opinion the USA ,the West in general, should check themselves first before pointing fingers at other nations. Remember how the US treats the detainees at Guantanamo Bay? Land of the free......my ass.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: Ahmadinejad 1, Couric 0? Not quite...think again.
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2009, 09:56:47 PM »
Meh, In my opinion the USA ,the West in general, should check themselves first before pointing fingers at other nations. Remember how the US treats the detainees at Guantanamo Bay? Land of the free......my ass.

You talking about the same detainees that would, if freed, attempt to blow us up in our high-rises, our offices, our train stations and our airports.

The highjackers on 9/11 trained here in the US to fly large aircraft, using our own resources to turn against us. Itís the ultimate slap in the face.

Fuck them. If Gitmo wants to discipline with them with Slip-N-Slides covered with broken Coke bottle glass and vinegar, fine by me. I heard stories of the prisoners there spitting or throwing feces at guards. Get one or two and bash their fucking heads in with a lead pipe and then leave them to rot as a warning for the rest. You'll find very little mercy in me for pigs that want to try and kill me or my family and friends. After 9/11 nothing is the same, there can be no forgiveness.

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: Ahmadinejad 1, Couric 0? Not quite...think again.
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2009, 03:47:59 AM »
You talking about the same detainees that would, if freed, attempt to blow us up in our high-rises, our offices, our train stations and our airports.

The highjackers on 9/11 trained here in the US to fly large aircraft, using our own resources to turn against us. Itís the ultimate slap in the face.

Fuck them. If Gitmo wants to discipline with them with Slip-N-Slides covered with broken Coke bottle glass and vinegar, fine by me. I heard stories of the prisoners there spitting or throwing feces at guards. Get one or two and bash their fucking heads in with a lead pipe and then leave them to rot as a warning for the rest. You'll find very little mercy in me for pigs that want to try and kill me or my family and friends. After 9/11 nothing is the same, there can be no forgiveness.

You do realise that likely not everyone there had anything to do with anything when they were handed over? That its quite possible some of them were there as a result of Afghan warlords settling old scores. "Yes, this man is a know terrorist sympathiser, now give me my reward money."

Now, let's lock you up for a few years, deny you contact with friends and family, and for that matter legal council. Trials? Yeah, we'll get around to those some day.

If you didn't have a grudge against America going in, I think it's a pretty safe bet to say you would coming out again.

This is the kind of thinking and acting that creates the next generation of those who want to kill you. You'll never get through to the hardcore anti-American crowd anyway, but this is what drives the moderates into the arms of your enemies. Your words, and your actions have consequences, just as surely as theirs do.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: Ahmadinejad 1, Couric 0? Not quite...think again.
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2009, 04:21:09 AM »

Read my post again Hairy, and slowly. Then respond. You're doing exactly what a mod would jump on someone's back for doing, reading more into it than there is.

Of course I know there's innocents in there, do you think I'm stupid? Hell there's innocent US citizens incarcerated in regular prisons on US soil.

I'm talking about the ones that are in there that did plot, do plot, and will plot and execute plans against us if freed.

At no point did I say 'thrash the innocents too'. If you've been paying attention at all since 2001, it's a given some of them in there aren't supposed to be there.

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: Ahmadinejad 1, Couric 0? Not quite...think again.
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2009, 04:59:21 AM »
And how exactly have you identified which are innocent and which are guilty? If they're identified as innocent, why are they still there? If they're guilty, why have they not received a trial and sentence?

You can't hold someone in limbo indefinately and expect it to have to consequences, even if there was no ill treatment going on.

Take a look at the internment that was carried out in the early days of the Troubles, and you may get an idea of how well such things work out.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: Ahmadinejad 1, Couric 0? Not quite...think again.
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2009, 01:44:37 PM »
And how exactly have you identified which are innocent and which are guilty? If they're identified as innocent, why are they still there? If they're guilty, why have they not received a trial and sentence?




We have a thing called due process that we use to settle criminal cases with the country for citizens. I will be the first to admit that Gitmo seems to be largely outside that whole thing, something I am hoping Obama can clean up.

Hell, don't ask me...ask the arses that run that place...

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Ahmadinejad 1, Couric 0? Not quite...think again.
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2009, 03:50:40 PM »
Meh, In my opinion the USA ,the West in general, should check themselves first before pointing fingers at other nations. Remember how the US treats the detainees at Guantanamo Bay? Land of the free......my ass.

Point of fact: The US has done some bad things. (Slavery and the Trail of Tears come to mind given my own family history) BUT you cannot compare Gitmo detainees' living conditions and treatments to what the folks in Iran who dissent get.

Having said that, I felt that Gitmo was taking a page from a book we didn't need to. Due Process was lagged AND still is.

Offline Chea

Re: Ahmadinejad 1, Couric 0? Not quite...think again.
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2009, 07:55:41 PM »
 See the US's propanganda is designed to make you a xenophobe, to make you concentrate on the bait while it's preparing to strip you of your rights. Your beloved "Gitmo" is only the beginning my friend, soon anti-Muslim propaganda will have Americans so mesmerized that they'll be able to use Gitmo tactics on US citizens. If you're familiar with history this whole deal sounds like neo-McCarthtism....doesn't it?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Ahmadinejad 1, Couric 0? Not quite...think again.
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2009, 10:12:37 PM »
See the US's propanganda is designed to make you a xenophobe, to make you concentrate on the bait while it's preparing to strip you of your rights. Your beloved "Gitmo" is only the beginning my friend, soon anti-Muslim propaganda will have Americans so mesmerized that they'll be able to use Gitmo tactics on US citizens. If you're familiar with history this whole deal sounds like neo-McCarthtism....doesn't it?

You do know what the Trail of Tears was right? What about Executive order 9066? Or the ongoing treatment of the Native American by the Department of Interior?

I did not say we were perfect, HOWEVER.. we don't condone the GENOCIDE of an entire nation. We don't torture people as a matter of state policy. And by torture I mean beatings, the removal of digits and finger/toenails, brutalization and such.

As for the 'They'll do it to us next' comment, I have this qoute in retort:

"The price is freedom is eternal vigilance." Thomas Jefferson said that as well as : "A Little Rebellion Now and Then Is A Good Thing". You want to make sure you're government is representing your interests is to keep an eye on it. Something the average american citizen hasn't done. That being said.. yes, the US has some warts..and we as a people have let fear and complacency control them for the better part of a decade.

And McCarthy could have been stopped by the public long before he was.

That however, doesn't address how we're as 'evil' as the Iranians..who are known to oppress anyone that threatens their status quo. (Ironically using the same practices as the  Shah who they overthrew in decades ago.)

The Iranians have overthrown their oppressors before.. I'm sure if they keep it up they will be doing it again.

Offline Cythieus

Re: Ahmadinejad 1, Couric 0? Not quite...think again.
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2009, 09:37:43 PM »
To the people arguing about Gitmo, many of the people there tried, many weren't caught on our soil or by us and some even went back to being terrorists upon release.

About Ahmadinejad, that's man's a delusion mouth piece. He's Iran's Glenn Beck.

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: Ahmadinejad 1, Couric 0? Not quite...think again.
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2009, 08:07:37 AM »
You say that many went back to being terrorists upon release. If there was evidence enough to prove them terrorists, then why were they released in the first place?

Do you think it possible that someone who was wrongly imprisoned for years, harshly treated and then released might just have developed a reason to want to go and take up arms against those that had done that to them?

Not so much returning to terrorism, as you put, but having been turned to terrorism by those who held them?

Offline Cythieus

Re: Ahmadinejad 1, Couric 0? Not quite...think again.
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2009, 11:40:42 AM »
You say that many went back to being terrorists upon release. If there was evidence enough to prove them terrorists, then why were they released in the first place?

Do you think it possible that someone who was wrongly imprisoned for years, harshly treated and then released might just have developed a reason to want to go and take up arms against those that had done that to them?

Not so much returning to terrorism, as you put, but having been turned to terrorism by those who held them?

I would say its a possibility, but this article speaks of someone released to Saudi Arabia in 2007 and being put in a special rehabilitation program. But he recently emerged as the deputy leader in Yemen.  Another article speaks of a low percentage, lower than many estimates.

Let's remember that everyone in that place isn't innocent, people seem to think that we're just scooping up suspicious people off the street and putting them in there and that's it. After all, with these low estimates on how many of them go back to it, couldn't it just as easily be concluded that we're preventing most of them from wanting to go back to terrorism.

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: Ahmadinejad 1, Couric 0? Not quite...think again.
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2009, 01:01:39 PM »
I would say its a possibility, but this article speaks of someone released to Saudi Arabia in 2007 and being put in a special rehabilitation program. But he recently emerged as the deputy leader in Yemen.

I think I've heard of that program, and its not a bad idea. They have the people involved trained in job skills, councilled by imams, and I think encouraged to marry ... give them reasons not to continue on the path they were on. I don't know what the success or failure rate of it is though, but no program is going to be 100%

Another article speaks of a low percentage, lower than many estimates.

The numbers they have there sound reasonably thought out.

Let's remember that everyone in that place isn't innocent, people seem to think that we're just scooping up suspicious people off the street and putting them in there and that's it. After all, with these low estimates on how many of them go back to it, couldn't it just as easily be concluded that we're preventing most of them from wanting to go back to terrorism.

Everyone may not be innocent, but I highly doubt that everyone is guilty. And you can't 'go back' to something you weren't involved with in the first place. That's why those imprisoned need to be processed. If they are guilty, then charge them and sentence them. If they're innocent, make reparations and let them go. But don't just leave them to rot, year after year.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Ahmadinejad 1, Couric 0? Not quite...think again.
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2009, 01:11:57 PM »
Personally I have thought the individual soldier on the ground or suicide bomber wasn't the people we should be targeting.

The bankers and recruiters are the ones we should be looking for. But thanks to the last oh.. 20 years of downsizing human intelligence on the ground (too long to culture, too expensive compared to an analyst looking over sigint or satellite feeds) we don't have the assets to definitively identify them.

I mean.. what takes a bigger bite out of the terrorist. Stopping the guy with the AK or finding the fuck who convinces KIDS to blow themselves up?