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Author Topic: What will you never play again?  (Read 46922 times)

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Online TheGlyphstone

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #550 on: March 19, 2011, 12:17:19 PM »
I can't believe people tolerate that kind of crap. "Not only do you have to be online to play multiplayer. Now you have to be online to play the game at all! We are so piracy paranoid!"

Seriously, Blizzard did it with Starcraft II, and it's one (of many) reasons why I can't even look at their name without being disgusted. C&C 4 needed it.

When will you realize that it's a stupid freaking idea, game companies? I mean people like me who can't be connected to play anything worthwhile online. Seriously, what are you worried that I'll figure out some way of horse-powered software piracy? All your doing is stopping honest people from buying your game that they might want to play while the dishonest people steal them anyway, and then they don't have to worry about being online to play it anyway.

Another instance of punishing the good guy. :(

You're being (slightly) unfair to Blizzard, in that SC2 singleplayer/campaign mode is technically 100% playable without an internet connection. All you lose is the ability to earn/track achievements, which don't actually affect anything.

Offline Shjade

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #551 on: March 19, 2011, 03:47:19 PM »
Unless you want that Kerrigan portrait. Several folks struggle to get it due to the achievement requiring a start-to-finish Insane campaign and having your 'net drop out midway through can screw you up.

Sure, it's just aesthetic bonuses, but it's still an issue.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #552 on: March 19, 2011, 05:24:06 PM »
Unless you want that Kerrigan portrait. Several folks struggle to get it due to the achievement requiring a start-to-finish Insane campaign and having your 'net drop out midway through can screw you up.

Sure, it's just aesthetic bonuses, but it's still an issue.

Yeah, but it's not nearly as egregious as some of the real offenders on that issue, which flatly refuse to let you play at all unless you've got an active connection going.

Offline Shjade

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #553 on: March 19, 2011, 05:36:23 PM »
Like Steam if you haven't set it up in advance to play offline. :|

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #554 on: March 19, 2011, 07:01:06 PM »
That's one of them...Steam I'm willing to give grudging forgiveness to though, if only because I've gotten so many awesome game discounts through Valve.

Offline Shjade

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #555 on: March 19, 2011, 07:04:54 PM »
Steam is such a love & hate thing. So much to love! So much to hate. >:|

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #556 on: March 19, 2011, 07:40:10 PM »
Since we're discussing Steam, I'll go momentarily back on-topic:

Supreme Commander 2, I will never play again. Not that it was a bad game. It was only thoroughly mediocre, changed just enough of SupCom1's mechanics to make it bland, and had a horrifically uninteresting storyline with zero replayability value. Was worth the $5 I spent for it via Steam, but I'll likely never touch it again.

Offline bandit

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #557 on: March 27, 2011, 07:14:07 AM »
Ugh, steam...

I love the idea that I can buy a PHYSICAL COPY OF A GAME...and then be told I can't play it because I'm not connected to the web. Discs in hand, I can be told that they aren't sure if I've actually paid for it....*grumble*

Also back on topic, I doubt I'll be playing Dragon Age II beyond my first and final run through. I've been so disappointed with the game that I've written pages long emails back and for with the people at bioware who've been kind enough to try to make me happy. They're good people, it's just obvious that their A team was busy on Mass Effect 3, and their B team was busy with The Old Republic, leaving only interns and guys they picked up in front of Home Depot to finish Dragon Age II.

I'll say that the game is playable and not a terrible game by itself, it's just a piss poor followup to one of the best RPG's I've had the pleasure of playing. My last run through of Dragon Age: Origins was completed at 119+ hours and that's without a lot of the DLC which I'll be picking up soon. My FIRST run through of Dragon Age II, the one that should run longer simply because of the need to explore and usual first run mistakes....well I'm in the third and final act of the game at only 38+ hours. bleh...

If I do play it again it'll simply be to enjoy the company of Varric and Merrill the only two companions who weren't entirely 1 dimensional.

Offline consortium11

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #558 on: March 27, 2011, 08:51:58 AM »
I wasn't as impressed with Origins as others were (my essential issue being that I was essentially playing a worse version of Baldur's Gate with vast amounts of its plot elements ripped wholesale from the Witcher) but it's about as much as we can expect from a AAA classic cRPG these days. That said I enjoyed it for what is was.

Dragon Age 2... well. Em. I didn't come in with high expectations (when you have staff members explain the central game mechanic as "press a button, something awesome happens" you're always going to struggle) and was really of two minds about getting it in the first place. I agree it's basically a one play through game... characters are far narrower, while they've done a better job than they've done in Mass Effect (and in truth most modern cRPGS) of having choices and consequences they're still no particularly deep, the combat (and combat takes up by far the vast majority of the game) is repetitive and pretty boring when it comes down to it. Spiking the difficulty level doesn't help... while the inclusion of friendly fire makes the battles a little different the AI doesn't improve and every mob battle follows the same pattern... there's a weak wave of first opponents, you defeat them and then a stronger second wave rise from the ground/abseil down/warp in... normally directly next to your support characters. The combat is only more "tactical" in that on the higher difficulties you have to micromanage running your supporting characters around to avoid them getting stomped while your tanks are rendered virtually worthless because opponents seemingly refuse to focus on them whatever you do. The plot is full of clichés and uninteresting characters who follow pretty serious plot related stupidity, despite there being C&C it's often railroaded or feels too constraining and they seem to make so many characters unlikeable that you don't really feel any attachment to either side of the main conflict (as well as the main conflict being completely idiotic when looked at in-game).

That said the boss battles are generally great and actually require some thought (although they over use the "take a quarter of the boss's health, it flies off and a mob appears, defeat them and repeat" mechanic). The second act is by far the best and if the quality remained at that level it would be fine. Even considering that though overall it's deeply disappointing.

Not that it's an actively bad game and the plot holes and lack of C&C don't make me scream like Fallout 3 did. It's distinctly average and not really worth another playthrough... not when the likes of Icewind Dale deliver better combat and BG, Arcanum, Fallout and Planescape offer a better experience. Even if you're looking for a more modern combat based RPG with pretty graphics the Witcher holds up... and assuming they haven't entirely ruined it the Witcher 2 should continue that trend.

Offline bandit

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #559 on: March 27, 2011, 09:40:40 AM »
Eh, I thought the boss battles were lack luster. While I haven't finished it, I'll say that thus far the only boss that gave me any challenge was the Arishok and even with him he was so slow and lame that all I had to do was back off every time he attacked and he'd miss. I think I used all of two health potions in the course of the entire fight.

I think DA:O had more challenging bosses and required real coordination when it came to the use of powers/attacks. DA:O is a game I am replaying and will replay dozens of times in the future...DA2 will be lucky if I finish it let alone ever play it again.

Offline Serephino

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #560 on: March 27, 2011, 12:43:14 PM »
My boyfriend said he liked DA:2 for the most part.  He thought all the cinematics were a bit annoying because there was more of that than actual game play.  But that was his biggest complaint; that you couldn't customize your character just because of all the cinematic where your character talks.  He could have done without that.   

Offline consortium11

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #561 on: March 27, 2011, 01:45:33 PM »
My boyfriend said he liked DA:2 for the most part.  He thought all the cinematics were a bit annoying because there was more of that than actual game play.  But that was his biggest complaint; that you couldn't customize your character just because of all the cinematic where your character talks.  He could have done without that.   

It's the problem with fully voiced protagonists in cRPGs. Because of the nature of them and the cost of voice acting it normally means you get very few things to say (outside of cinematics). It's not quite as big a pet peeve as dialogue wheel type systems which only give you a "hint" as to what your character will actually say (although Alpha Protocol handled that relatively well).

A slightly unfair image, but it illustrates my point.



It's also worth noting that Bioware are being pretty damn shady when it comes to criticism of the game. Linked your game to your Bioware account? You'd better not criticse Bioware on their forums or good luck playing any of your linked Bioware games ever again?

Online InkiduTopic starter

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Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #562 on: March 27, 2011, 02:24:54 PM »
Yeah, a passive set of dialogue choices that only the most fanatical gamer is ever going to use all of. Seriously, can you ever say you use half? I know I wouldn't. I'd stick with what works every time. Both have their drawbacks and advantages. With the wheel at least there were few enough choices to encourage experimentation. Even Bioware games that use the number-choices system have half that value most of the time (DA: O and Jade Empire) It's kind of a variation on the Shenmu Cupboard theory. Just because you can have oodles of dialogue doesn't mean it's good.

(Original Theory: Just because a gamer can open every door and drawer doesn't mean they want to.)

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #563 on: March 27, 2011, 03:13:26 PM »
I assume those eyes were photoshopped.

Offline consortium11

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #564 on: March 27, 2011, 03:50:33 PM »
Yeah, a passive set of dialogue choices that only the most fanatical gamer is ever going to use all of. Seriously, can you ever say you use half? I know I wouldn't. I'd stick with what works every time. Both have their drawbacks and advantages. With the wheel at least there were few enough choices to encourage experimentation. Even Bioware games that use the number-choices system have half that value most of the time (DA: O and Jade Empire) It's kind of a variation on the Shenmu Cupboard theory. Just because you can have oodles of dialogue doesn't mean it's good.

(Original Theory: Just because a gamer can open every door and drawer doesn't mean they want to.)

Planescape (the game in question) is one which encourages a large number of playthroughs due to C+C so the vast majority of players will have used all of them to see what the different reaction is each time... in addition to the fact that of the 18 dialogue options about 14/15 are useable throughout the conversation... the vast majority of Planescape players are going to go through them all in the same way they did for the slightly less dialogue heavy system in BG 1+2. In addition Planescape is a game which positively encourages you to really examine the dialogue characters say to you... the very basics of the plot are spoonfed but for any depth you essentially have to search it out yourself as well as giving distinct in game advantages for having read through the entire plot. The simple fact is in "classic" cRPG's (such as those using the Illusion Engine) there's no "I'd stick with what works" option... everything works just in slightly different ways most of the time.

The issue I have with most of Bioware's recent efforts is that the "options" are essentially false. You rarely if ever get dramatic changes in gameplay due to choices you make in conversations or otherwise. Maybe a merchant stops selling to you, maybe a character disappears (sometimes almost immediately replaced), maybe you get a bonus point on an arbitrary scale that doesn't really effect to game. To be fair it's not as if it's entirely Bioware's fault... Bethesda are notorious for it and it seems to be the trend in modern rpgs.

Perhaps that's overall the biggest problem. Modern RPGs don't feel like RPGS to me... they generally feel like other genres with some RPG elements tacked on. Take Mass Effect 2... I enjoyed it and it's s good game... but it's a terrible RPG. Fallout 3 was pretty poor all round but playing it as if it was a (bad) mod for Stalker was far better than playing it as an RPG. New Vegas tried to sort out many of the problems Fallout 3 had but couldn't quite do it... and brought its own to the party (normally because of Obsidians incompetence). Origins was an ok step back from that although it suffered from not really being a patch on the games it aped.

Online InkiduTopic starter

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Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #565 on: March 27, 2011, 04:14:37 PM »
Planescape (the game in question) is one which encourages a large number of playthroughs due to C+C so the vast majority of players will have used all of them to see what the different reaction is each time... in addition to the fact that of the 18 dialogue options about 14/15 are useable throughout the conversation... the vast majority of Planescape players are going to go through them all in the same way they did for the slightly less dialogue heavy system in BG 1+2. In addition Planescape is a game which positively encourages you to really examine the dialogue characters say to you... the very basics of the plot are spoonfed but for any depth you essentially have to search it out yourself as well as giving distinct in game advantages for having read through the entire plot. The simple fact is in "classic" cRPG's (such as those using the Illusion Engine) there's no "I'd stick with what works" option... everything works just in slightly different ways most of the time.

The issue I have with most of Bioware's recent efforts is that the "options" are essentially false. You rarely if ever get dramatic changes in gameplay due to choices you make in conversations or otherwise. Maybe a merchant stops selling to you, maybe a character disappears (sometimes almost immediately replaced), maybe you get a bonus point on an arbitrary scale that doesn't really effect to game. To be fair it's not as if it's entirely Bioware's fault... Bethesda are notorious for it and it seems to be the trend in modern rpgs.

Perhaps that's overall the biggest problem. Modern RPGs don't feel like RPGS to me... they generally feel like other genres with some RPG elements tacked on. Take Mass Effect 2... I enjoyed it and it's s good game... but it's a terrible RPG. Fallout 3 was pretty poor all round but playing it as if it was a (bad) mod for Stalker was far better than playing it as an RPG. New Vegas tried to sort out many of the problems Fallout 3 had but couldn't quite do it... and brought its own to the party (normally because of Obsidians incompetence). Origins was an ok step back from that although it suffered from not really being a patch on the games it aped.
Eh... yeah and no.

First off, you were talking about the players of Planescape in a purely fan basis. It's people who are fans of Planescape, but honestly, I can't see myself sifting through 15 choices per interaction just for the "role playing" aspect of it.

What you have to understand is what Bioware is doing now is new, and it is expensive (plus there's that urge to make everything equal despite moral choice, something most games are guilty of). It's easy to slap up one hundred dialogue options when they don't need V/O and yes Mass Effect is sacrificing some of your role playing so that it can engage the player more and feel more cinematic.

As games like Mass Effect go on, utilizing this wheel option, and as games generally level off on better graphics being the standard to achieve in video games (something that is happening now) more focus will be put into the interactions. I doubt you'll ever have even ten "choice" options in one moment of conversation but what you do will begin to affect the game's story more and more. Asking for it now is like asking for Michael Bay-caliber special effects when they're only capable of clever low-budget stuff. Just wait. It's going to take off.

Like I said both have drawbacks, but if my lack of willingness to not go and play Jade Empire because it uses the old number-choice system is any indication, Mass Effect is on the right track.   

Offline consortium11

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #566 on: March 27, 2011, 04:59:31 PM »
Eh... yeah and no.

First off, you were talking about the players of Planescape in a purely fan basis. It's people who are fans of Planescape, but honestly, I can't see myself sifting through 15 choices per interaction just for the "role playing" aspect of it.

It would also include all those who played pretty much any Infinity Engine game excluding Icewind Dale (which was basically a dungeon crawler)... notably including the Baldur's Gate series that was wildly successful and is generally considered (in a somewhat over-exaggerated manner) to have saved the RPG genre in the West... notably enough that Bioware hyped the hell of of DA:O as a spiritual successor of BG after the failing in Neverwinter Nights.

What you have to understand is what Bioware is doing now is new, and it is expensive (plus there's that urge to make everything equal despite moral choice, something most games are guilty of). It's easy to slap up one hundred dialogue options when they don't need V/O and yes Mass Effect is sacrificing some of your role playing so that it can engage the player more and feel more cinematic.

It's not particularly new... Gold Box games had similarly limited dialogue choices. I agree with you on the cost element... I believe I pointed it out above... and I also agree on the need to make everything equal... a trend I find pretty appalling and one that often leads to huge amounts of plot induced stupidity. The fact that most cRPGs (both older and modern) struggle immensely with getting a morality system that works in an even somewhat effective way doesn't help.

As games like Mass Effect go on, utilizing this wheel option, and as games generally level off on better graphics being the standard to achieve in video games (something that is happening now) more focus will be put into the interactions. I doubt you'll ever have even ten "choice" options in one moment of conversation but what you do will begin to affect the game's story more and more. Asking for it now is like asking for Michael Bay-caliber special effects when they're only capable of clever low-budget stuff. Just wait. It's going to take off.

It's not as hard as you make out. Alpha Protocol may have been a buggy mess but what it did include was one of the deeper C+C options in any game, let alone a modern one, often based around dialogue. Dialogue became a key part of the game despite having at most 5-6 exclusive conversation options at a time. Late in the game it had a habit of collapsing under the amount of choices but that's essentially down to Obsidian and their seeming refusal to properly play test a game and generally sloppy approach (virtually every single one of their games has suffered from this). If Obsidian with a small team and a relatively tiny budget can do that then Bioware... with a much bigger team and budget... should at least be able to match them. Deep dialogue doesn't have to be the Infinity Engine type (although I think it helps)... it can be done with the wheel choices.

Like I said both have drawbacks, but if my lack of willingness to not go and play Jade Empire because it uses the old number-choice system is any indication, Mass Effect is on the right track.

Most people refused to play Jade Empire because it was basically terrible... achieving the seemingly unique feat of annoying everyone. As for Mass Effect being on the right track, maybe... as I say it's barely an RPG now... but it's worth noting that the original (hah) Dragon Age: Origins didn't use a wheel system and at this stage looks like it'll go onto sell more and get far higher critical acclaim than the sequel... which does.

Offline Wyrd

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #567 on: April 02, 2011, 10:31:28 AM »
How DA:O even got any amount of critical acclaim at all is far beyond me. As for another game that should be avoided... Sacred 2. A perfect example of how the birds I view "RPG" genre is a dying sloth. With the exception of the satire like feeling and some funny and slightly entertaining quests here and there its bad. Not two worlds or Diablo 2 bad, but still bad.     

Offline Sel Nar

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #568 on: April 02, 2011, 02:58:02 PM »
Yet another game tossed onto my pile of 'Won't touch with a ten-foot pole' List.

Prototype.

Schlocky, Schlocky, Boring Schlock. Some of the gimmicks are amusing (Accuse an innocent of being you, watch his buddies turn him into a lead drive) but everything felt 'samey' and, graphics-wise, There was enough red, brown and grey to ensure that everything just blurred together.

Now, if you'll pardon me, I'm going to go abuse more demons in Painkiller, because that game was at least pure awesome.

Offline Yorubi

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #569 on: April 02, 2011, 03:28:22 PM »
Well not the biggest gamer myself (though yes I do play some pssh I get it I play more then most 'non-gamers' do) I don't have to many I tired out, but I am a sucker when it comes to free MMos. I was and randomly do still play Ragnarok Online (Amazing game, shouldn't even tarnish its name by mentioning it in this thread) which got me seeing a game like Secret of Solstice and going "well its got a similar play style but nope!

Secret of Solstice = Bad

Something about the graphics make me cringe and the interface, and when it came to actually playing it, iy just wasn't at all appealing to me. Pretty much just confirmed to me that RO is and will probably be the only game of that style that I will like.


Online InkiduTopic starter

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Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #570 on: April 03, 2011, 05:54:36 PM »
Well not the biggest gamer myself (though yes I do play some pssh I get it I play more then most 'non-gamers' do) I don't have to many I tired out, but I am a sucker when it comes to free MMos. I was and randomly do still play Ragnarok Online (Amazing game, shouldn't even tarnish its name by mentioning it in this thread) which got me seeing a game like Secret of Solstice and going "well its got a similar play style but nope!

Secret of Solstice = Bad

Something about the graphics make me cringe and the interface, and when it came to actually playing it, iy just wasn't at all appealing to me. Pretty much just confirmed to me that RO is and will probably be the only game of that style that I will like.
I don't see how you could drag Ragnarok Online any lower than it already is by mentioning it here. It is an MMORGP after all. :) [/ba-zing!]

Offline Wyrd

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #571 on: April 03, 2011, 07:57:21 PM »
Nice! ;)

Offline Yorubi

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #572 on: April 03, 2011, 10:41:55 PM »
:(

Offline SinClaire

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Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #573 on: April 15, 2011, 11:38:48 AM »
Final Fantasy X, Final Fantasy X-2. I nearly declared myself as an un-fan of Square when I had the misfortune of playing those things.

FFXII I enjoyed, but I wouldn't play it again - Vaan is hell to get past, at least for me, so I don't think I'll be going back to it any time soon.

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Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #574 on: April 16, 2011, 04:10:53 PM »
I'm never playing Armature Surgeon: Part 2 again. Stupid bee thing; dumb-ass syringe mechanic...