You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 07, 2016, 06:46:30 AM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: What will you never play again?  (Read 46904 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline CmdrRenegade

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #475 on: February 11, 2011, 11:27:14 AM »
Two bits. First:My first thought: Auron of FFX. Practically the poster-boy for mysterious swordsmen. Is he your father? No.
Second thought: Sephiroth of FFVII. Pretty-boy mysterious swordsman. Is he your father? No.

The trouble with these "clever" jokes about various game genres is they're believed by people who already don't play or like the games. It's preaching to the choir in the silliest way possible.

This isn't a defense of Japenese games - FFVII was hilarious in all the wrong ways and FFX, the laughing scene, dear god, the laughing scene - just pointing out that the assumptions and generalizations about JRPGs and the like tend to be off the mark.

Sorry if this is off topic, but I have to ask.  Why does everybody keep flogging Final Fantasy X over the laughing scene? They were acting retarded to help cheer themselves up so they could laugh for real.  Can someone explain this to me?

Offline Shjade

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #476 on: February 11, 2011, 01:54:31 PM »
It's not the scene itself so much, Cmdr. If it were, say, written down, I could probably stomach the concept. It's the voice acting done for it, all those overlong pauses between lines and the delivery in general. It's just so...grating.

In a way it's performances like that that fuel the "subtitles > dubbing" crowd with regard to anime translation: it doesn't really matter what the script is if the people speaking it make you want to mute the thing.

With a fire axe.

Unrelated: is there some way to make youtube links not pop the video into the post as well so it's just the URL in the text? Not used to it doing that.

Offline CmdrRenegade

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #477 on: February 11, 2011, 02:54:03 PM »
It's not the scene itself so much, Cmdr. If it were, say, written down, I could probably stomach the concept. It's the voice acting done for it, all those overlong pauses between lines and the delivery in general. It's just so...grating.

In a way it's performances like that that fuel the "subtitles > dubbing" crowd with regard to anime translation: it doesn't really matter what the script is if the people speaking it make you want to mute the thing.

With a fire axe.

Am I the only one who think James Arnold Taylor did a good job of portraying the type of character he's best at? I found him to be quite believable considering Tidus's slowly maturing personality.

I've watched a lot of anime and played a lot of Japanese games, though.  I understand how many of those people feel when it comes to those awkward pauses.  Unfortunately, that's just a problem that will inevitably occur when you translate Japanese to English.  A sentence that  is conveyed in 10 seconds in Japanese might be conveyed in 5 seconds in English with little loss of meaning.  What do you do with those extra seconds? There's no answer that's going to leave everyone happy.  You either have pauses, or you pad the dialogue.  Or you stick with subtitles, but yet you feel like you're still missing something.  This problem is simply because Japanese and English developed completely separately from one another. 

Anyway, multiplayer is something I won't play anymore.

Offline Shjade

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #478 on: February 11, 2011, 03:30:34 PM »
I understand how many of those people feel when it comes to those awkward pauses.  Unfortunately, that's just a problem that will inevitably occur when you translate Japanese to English.  A sentence that  is conveyed in 10 seconds in Japanese might be conveyed in 5 seconds in English with little loss of meaning.  What do you do with those extra seconds? There's no answer that's going to leave everyone happy.  You either have pauses, or you pad the dialogue.  Or you stick with subtitles, but yet you feel like you're still missing something.  This problem is simply because Japanese and English developed completely separately from one another. 
Wh...no. It has nothing to do with translation, it's a performance issue. There's no dialogue around those pauses.

Tidus laughs.

Pause.

Tidus laughs again.

Yuna then says something. <--the only dialogue

More laughing.

Pause.

Yuna takes a breath.

Pause.

More laughing.

Pause.

Genuine laughing.

Unless you're saying the Japanese version had a much longer laugh entry there because, obviously, laughter is condensed when you translate it from Japanese to English...it's just incredibly stilted performance, though it may be as much a problem with timing on the scene as the performances. It doesn't really come across any better in the Japanese version, honestly; it's just goofy either way. Intending to have your characters act silly and actually executing the scene well are two different things.

Anyway, agreed about games that use multiplayer for a crutch. It's great to play with other people in some games, but the ones that rely on it as their main attraction often end up weak overall.

Offline CmdrRenegade

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #479 on: February 11, 2011, 03:57:16 PM »
Wh...no. It has nothing to do with translation, it's a performance issue. There's no dialogue around those pauses.

Tidus laughs.

Pause.

Tidus laughs again.

Yuna then says something. <--the only dialogue

More laughing.

Pause.

Yuna takes a breath.

Pause.

More laughing.

Pause.

Genuine laughing.

Unless you're saying the Japanese version had a much longer laugh entry there because, obviously, laughter is condensed when you translate it from Japanese to English...it's just incredibly stilted performance, though it may be as much a problem with timing on the scene as the performances. It doesn't really come across any better in the Japanese version, honestly; it's just goofy either way. Intending to have your characters act silly and actually executing the scene well are two different things.

Anyway, agreed about games that use multiplayer for a crutch. It's great to play with other people in some games, but the ones that rely on it as their main attraction often end up weak overall.

I wasn't using the laughing scene specifically in my example, but I don't think we're disagreeing.  I brought up the timing thing since you mentioned the whole "dub vs. sub" debate.  My only point is that no perfect solution exists except to speak, read, and understand fluent Japanese.  It was a weird scene to begin with and I've seen it in both English and Japanese, though I thought the whole thing was bit meta.  They were coping with their situations by being as narmy and silly as they possibly could.  I do agree that that scene should have been more tightly edited. 

Maybe I'm just getting less nitpicky in my old age or perhaps I still remember being 14 in the 16 bit era and wishing Square Soft, Enix, and the other major Japanese developers would bring more of their stuff over here.  There was a time when Square wasn't the giant presence it is now on this side of the Pacific. 

Online InkiduTopic starter

  • E's Resident Girlomancer, Dedicated Philogynist, The Compartive of a Superlative, SLG's Sammich Life-Giver
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Location: In a staring contest with the Void.
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #480 on: February 11, 2011, 06:03:58 PM »
Do you know why Square-Enix is buying up Western companies like Eidos? Seriously, they now own Deus Ex, and Tomb Raider. Thank God they're smart enough to let Eidos work on its own and reap the profit margin. The obvious reason for this move is because Japanese games are not hitting American's like they used to. I forget his name but it was the guy who created Mega Man and told the world the Japanese gaming market was stagnating and then he quit Capcom.

I think a lot of the mystique of Japan is wearing off and the tropes and cliches are becoming too recognizable and intolerable to the Western pallet. Japanese games will always sell well in Japan. That's kind of a given, but I honestly don't want to see them bring over more stuff. I'd be happy if they never released another Final Fantasy again. Seriously, now they're up to XIII-2. Damnit Japan!

Offline CmdrRenegade

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #481 on: February 11, 2011, 08:57:00 PM »
The man you're thinking of is Keiji Inafune, Inkidu.  He was also responsible for Onimusha if memory serves.  I didn't know Square-Enix owned Deus Ex and Tomb Raider now.  Though much of what you've talked about with the Japanese market stagnating is true, I think that it's just as true of the Western market.  I think we need a 10 year moratorium on first person shooters (Valve gets a reprieve until they finish Episode 3) and music games for example.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3

Offline Heaven Sent Blossom

  • Evil snake cult leader, now with kung-fu grip action!
  • Lord
  • Bacchae
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Location: Hiding in your bin like a messed up Oscar the Grouch
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #483 on: February 11, 2011, 11:04:25 PM »
I've been considering getting HAWX2, so I'd be curious to know what makes you say that. I thought the first game was quite entertaining, so how is the second one different?

Well I'm six or seven missions into the single player campaign and haven't been able to choose my own plane or weapon load out yet.
The handling on the planes seems slightly more sluggish, although this could easily be down to the fact that I'm flying planes I would mostly never use outside of a tutorial (F-14 for life yo).
It may have been a consequence of using planes I was used to, and thus mopping shit up quicker, however I felt like the AI in the first game actually helped. So far in this one I have actually watched them drop munitions on ground targets, seen the explosion, and then seen the ground target chilling out like nothing happened. This wouldn't be the end of the world if the missions in question didn't have an allied force approaching who were being constantly dicked by said ground targets.
Even less single player "cheevos" compared to multiplayer ones than in the first game. Now I don't care about my gamerscore, never have, however that sort of thing tells me that singleplayer wasn't given the attention it really deserves.
It gave me whooping cough. (Not really, it's just a very bad sequel.)

I honestly can't think of a single redeeming feature to this game, it might be different if you use that crazy cinematic camera they introduced in the first game, however I don't so I can only tell you how the game feels from inside the cockpit view. And from there it feels sluggish and lazily produced.
I'm not big on trading games in, especially if I haven't finished them, yet HAWX 2 is already a distant memory to my games collection (replaced by Project Sylpheed funnily enough) and hopefully I can heal my wounds enough to be able to love again when the next Ace Combat comes out.

Offline Vezaphire

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #484 on: February 13, 2011, 09:09:56 PM »
Dynasty Warriors Strikeforce.  I really like Dynasty Warriors games, silly as they are, but this game was such a huge step back in so many ways, it was just painful.  The disappointment was utterly crushing.

Any more Guitar Hero games.  They just keep getting worse and worse.  And now Rock Band is starting to follow suit.   :'(

Online InkiduTopic starter

  • E's Resident Girlomancer, Dedicated Philogynist, The Compartive of a Superlative, SLG's Sammich Life-Giver
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Location: In a staring contest with the Void.
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #485 on: February 15, 2011, 03:04:30 PM »
I've decided just to do it. No more Blizzard games until they can actually produce something from this current half decade and not something stuck in 2001 with "purdy" graphics. I wish I could get more people on the bandwagon, but the addicted fan base is apparently the best kind.

Offline Hemingway

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #486 on: February 15, 2011, 03:11:41 PM »
I've decided just to do it. No more Blizzard games until they can actually produce something from this current half decade and not something stuck in 2001 with "purdy" graphics. I wish I could get more people on the bandwagon, but the addicted fan base is apparently the best kind.

If I had more willpower, I'd probably be on the same boat. Come Diablo 3, though, I'll march down to GameStop like everyone else and get the game. I'll probably enjoy it, too, until my first playthrough ends. Then, slowly, the bitterness will start building up.

The next StarCraft chapter is a somewhat different story. The story of Wings of Liberty was such a letdown, that at this point, I don't even care what happens next. And that is not something I say very often.

Offline Sabby

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #487 on: February 15, 2011, 03:29:32 PM »
Any Far Cry game from the original Xbox. Far Cry: Instincts, Far Cry: Instincts: Predator, Far Cry: Instincts: Evolution...

Every one of them sucked. Shitty game engine with poor physics that made everyone look like blow up dolls or cardboard boxes, the stealth was even worse then the original (which is an accomplishment, and all the things it adds to stealth is made immediately redundant because of "EPIC FERAL POWAHS!!"

Why? Why should I crawl around in a bush for 10 minutes tempting a guard to come poking around to walk into a tree branch trap, when in 10 seconds I could travel across this entire beach as a freakin' Lycanthrope and murder all 20 people on the way with my bare hands taking minimal damage?

And then theres the story... is there even a plot to these games? I remember playing the original on PC. All I got was an incredibly confusing nightmare sequence, I wake up on an island, sneak inland and find Jurassic Park inhabited by baby Rancors. And this was after I played the Xbox version, which is a remake, so I was left wondering where the hell my boat is, how the hell I ended up there, what happened to the girl, hell, what happened to ANYTHING that was in the Xbox version? How is it a remake when the game its remaking had zero of the events in the opening cutscene?

So now suddenly theres a semblance of a plot! Yay! I actually see my boat destroyed and I get stranded, and it likely has something to do with my client, a mysterious reporter woman. This is so much more informative then the events it supposedly reenacts. So far, so good.

...wait, I'm a Werewolf now? Why am I shooting mini-dinosaurs now? o.O Why am I storming a mad scientists heavily fortified base by jumping from a Helicopter dual wielding P90's like I'm some combination of James Bond, Neo and the fucking Hybrid from Underworld? WTF is going on?! No! Change grenade types, not change trap types! I don't want a spiky branch. I don't NEED a spiky branch. In case you haven't noticed, I HAVE FUCKING CLAWS!! I don't understand it, but I've certainly noticed, and it makes a sharp sapling kind of useless!

GAH!

Online InkiduTopic starter

  • E's Resident Girlomancer, Dedicated Philogynist, The Compartive of a Superlative, SLG's Sammich Life-Giver
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Location: In a staring contest with the Void.
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #488 on: February 15, 2011, 04:42:17 PM »
If I had more willpower, I'd probably be on the same boat. Come Diablo 3, though, I'll march down to GameStop like everyone else and get the game. I'll probably enjoy it, too, until my first playthrough ends. Then, slowly, the bitterness will start building up.

The next StarCraft chapter is a somewhat different story. The story of Wings of Liberty was such a letdown, that at this point, I don't even care what happens next. And that is not something I say very often.
You know, any other company that pulled what Blizzard pulls with its "perfectionist" (a.k.a. Long-ass waits for no reason) attitude would go out of business in two blinks. Not Blizzard they've got people hooked on what is basically legal crack and they use their drug money to keep themselves afloat while the produced the great golden oldies from '01. Again, and again, and again. Die Blizzard. Just do the right thing and go out of business.

Offline Shjade

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #489 on: February 15, 2011, 07:48:51 PM »
I'll probably pick up the Zerg and Protoss SC2 campaigns as well when they come out, but Diablo's a dead series as far as I'm concerned. That kind of gameplay was pretty taxing in the first place and it hasn't gotten any better with age. That new Lara Croft game covers similar ground in a more exciting way.

Offline Wyrd

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #490 on: February 15, 2011, 08:30:51 PM »
I've decided just to do it. No more Blizzard games until they can actually produce something from this current half decade and not something stuck in 2001 with "purdy" graphics. I wish I could get more people on the bandwagon, but the addicted fan base is apparently the best kind.

Don't worry brother! I'm with ya. I getting sick of the Blizz lately and I'm hoping Diablo 3 tanks.

Offline Shjade

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #491 on: February 16, 2011, 09:23:14 AM »
Speaking of popular developers with slow game output times, it occurred to me late last night that I'm probably going to ignore Half-Life 2 Ep. 3 if/when it ever comes out, too.

Online InkiduTopic starter

  • E's Resident Girlomancer, Dedicated Philogynist, The Compartive of a Superlative, SLG's Sammich Life-Giver
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Location: In a staring contest with the Void.
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #492 on: February 16, 2011, 04:38:24 PM »
I doubt Diablo 3 will tank. Too many people are addicted to that kind of game play. Seriously though. Valve is bad with its Half-Life series but at least it throws you Portal 2, and Left 4 Dead while you wait. And yes, they need to stop having this love affair with that engine of there's and start making something besides FPSs. How awesome would that be applied to a third-person game? Blizzard, Blizzard just says you shut up, you wait, you're not important your dollars are.

I'd much rather take a shot at a somewhat flawed game like Alpha Protocol (which despite what I said, when it gets down in the thirty-dollar range looks pretty appealing) that tried something new and daring than have the safe, stale, same crap over and over. I mean Id is taking forever too but they promised they would at least try something new and big with Rage.

Offline Shjade

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #493 on: February 17, 2011, 10:27:01 AM »
Valve is bad with its Half-Life series but at least it throws you Portal 2, and Left 4 Dead while you wait. And yes, they need to stop having this love affair with that engine of there's and start making something besides FPSs. How awesome would that be applied to a third-person game?
As far as I'm concerned, Left 4 Dead is better than Half-Life. I've sunk something like 600 hours into that series. Love the co-op, love the versus (with friends, mind you, not so much pubs), great games.

Why would you want it as a third-person game instead? O.o

Online InkiduTopic starter

  • E's Resident Girlomancer, Dedicated Philogynist, The Compartive of a Superlative, SLG's Sammich Life-Giver
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Location: In a staring contest with the Void.
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #494 on: February 17, 2011, 06:40:42 PM »
As far as I'm concerned, Left 4 Dead is better than Half-Life. I've sunk something like 600 hours into that series. Love the co-op, love the versus (with friends, mind you, not so much pubs), great games.

Why would you want it as a third-person game instead? O.o
I didn't say I wanted L4D to be a third-person game (I find it too multiplayer-focused to really be worth my time) I said I want Valve to apply their engine to a third-person game, anything actually but they're getting to be a one trick pony with all their FPSs.

Offline Sabby

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #495 on: February 17, 2011, 07:14:54 PM »
I prefer 3rd over 1st. Periphery vision helps.

Online InkiduTopic starter

  • E's Resident Girlomancer, Dedicated Philogynist, The Compartive of a Superlative, SLG's Sammich Life-Giver
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Location: In a staring contest with the Void.
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #496 on: February 17, 2011, 07:24:14 PM »
I prefer 3rd over 1st. Periphery vision helps.
I don't think it really matters myself. I mean the Elder Scroll games would not be the same without the first-person view, but seriously guys branch out. You don't release enough games to say you get to do only one thing. Ubisoft likes third-person but you get a great game from them every couple of years or so.

Offline Shjade

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #497 on: February 17, 2011, 07:42:33 PM »
I suppose it depends on what kind. "3rd person" covers a wider variety of possible control schemes than first-person does.

Over-the-shoulder 3rd person, for instance? Probably my least favorite gameplay style, period. Aiming and moving almost always come off feeling awkward and I end up abusing any first-person aiming options available, even if it's otherwise a hindrance (slower movement, only certain weapons use it, etc.). I think I'd honestly find games like Grand Theft Auto simpler to play if they used a FPS control scheme; of course then you'd miss out on hilarious ragdoll physics when you get blown up, but eh, they could always throw the camera out wider to show you getting blown across the interstate if need be.

More RPG-style games, on the other hand, seem more fun in 3rd-person since, well, I get to see the character, and I typically don't need to "aim" anyway, just target things and use abilities. The camera angle isn't a detriment to the gameplay.

If you just mean using the Source engine for 3rd-person gameplay, I don't know of Valve-created examples, but I'm pretty sure Alien Swarm and Vindictus both use the Source engine, don't they? If I'm remembering that right, then yeah, there's some good potential there in the engine. I'm just not sure what kind of game I'd want to see made with it from an exterior perspective. I'm not a physics-engine-buff, really. Did you have anything in particular in mind, Ink?

Sidenote: using one point of view isn't the same as doing only one thing. TF2, Portal, L4D and Half-life are all first-person shooters, but they're considerably different "things." That's not trying to be all MUST DEFEND VALVE - I only play one of those four games and kinda loathe one (TF2, neh) - that's just observing camera view isn't the entire game. There are other mechanics at work to make a game, too.

Online InkiduTopic starter

  • E's Resident Girlomancer, Dedicated Philogynist, The Compartive of a Superlative, SLG's Sammich Life-Giver
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Location: In a staring contest with the Void.
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #498 on: February 17, 2011, 07:50:11 PM »
Portal is the only one with fundamental game play differences. The rest use different tactics for the same FPS mechanics. The only thing that changes are your weapons, enemies, and situation.

Offline Sabby

Re: What will you never play again?
« Reply #499 on: February 17, 2011, 08:27:22 PM »
Portal is the only one with fundamental game play differences. The rest use different tactics for the same FPS mechanics. The only thing that changes are your weapons, enemies, and situation.

Welcome to every first person shooter ever :P I'd actually say the Half Life series does more different in one shooter series then most other series do in a year, simply because of the range of situations, and lets face it, adding a fun level with a cool gameplay twist is a lot easier then totally reinventing shooter mechanics with each new release :P

Yeah, they repeat shit like the see-saw puzzle and the slow elevator, but name for me 3 other first person shooters with the same level variety. How many other games do you have to fight your way through packs of ground enemies to get a bomb on a slowly moving siege machine, when its a massive open area with multiple siege machines and multiple pathways, and the enemies are programmed to destroy your bombs, and you also have a vehicle for transport and any buildings you could hide in are completely destructible.

Or what about sneaking through war torn junkyards to get behind a set of suppressing turrets? Or helping humans fight off increasingly tough waves of bugs with placeable turrets and mines? Or battling through a hospital that is already engaged in a 2 sided war? Only Halo does that last one :P

Sorry if I seem confrontational, I just can't stand people insulting Half Life for silly reasons like "It's the same as other shooters". Its not. Anyone whose listened to the dev commentary knows its not.