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Author Topic: Pathfinder RPG  (Read 13640 times)

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Offline Chris Brady

Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2009, 10:59:35 AM »
Yeesh.  I sometimes wonder why you're so vocal in opposition when you dislike it.  I've found more than enough options to even the odds between fighters and magic-users.

I'm vocal because I want to like, I really, honestly do, but the didn't really change anything enough (For me) to make like it.

And frankly, Pathfinder IS nothing more than a 'scam' to make you think your 3.x books are worthless and you 'need' to buy the PF stuff to remain 'active'.  Perhaps people are happy with it, myself?  If I want to use a 3.x game book, I have a shelf full.

Offline MasterMischief

Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2009, 03:03:57 PM »
I agree that D&D is a genre unto itself.  A subset of High Fantasy, if you will.  I am not that well read, but most of the cinema and literature I am familiar with, the protagonist do not rely so heavily on equipment.  Sure, they may have a magical sword or a ring that makes them invisible, but they are not reaching carrying capacity with glowing dodads.

Thanks for the tip on Anima: Beyond Fantasy.  I am not familiar with that one.

Online Myrleena

Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2009, 03:18:15 PM »
Oh, I totally agree on the majority of the literature.  Very, very few books are the same kind of thing as D&D/Pathfinder.  I like Pathfinder for what it is.  For what it isn't, I find other systems.  I play Exalted, Hero System, and (now) Anima.  Anima is very much a Sword & Sorcery type feel, and while it looks incredibly complicated, once you get past the quirky parts of the rules it's simple enough.  I honestly like the game, even if the translators did a less than stellar job.

Offline MasterMischief

Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2009, 03:19:41 PM »
I played Hero for years, so complexity is not much of an obstacle for me.  I also have G.U.R.P.S. Vehicles, so math is meh.   ;D

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Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2009, 03:22:40 PM »
Exalted isn't so much high as insanely over the top (and I mean that in a good way, as I really like Exalted). I mean, it has dinosaurs that piss heroin, and the ability to do wuxia stunts whilst in mecha sized armour. You don't get much more over the top than that :)

Online Myrleena

Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2009, 03:32:04 PM »
True enough on Exalted.  My thing is I like how each system works on it's own merits.  Hero is great for doing whatever I want, but a pain to GM.  I love the feel of Exalted, it's just so tied to the base world that it gives me some issues.  Not that I can't get past them, but it's made running it strange.  D&D is good for a fairly structured, simple system.  And I've never had the issues balancing things that people talk about.  Anima is nice because, while complicated and level based, it isn't innately capped at a certain level, and they balanced a huge number of things against each other.  A warrior is screwed if the mage launches a spell that's incredibly powerful, but that's the way it goes.  The warrior should have the chance to stick his sword through the mage first.  But at the higher levels its almost as bad as Exalted in sheer over-the-top power scale.

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Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2009, 03:37:59 PM »
Have you seen Scion? If you like Exalted you'd probably like it too.

Offline MasterMischief

Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2009, 03:38:30 PM »
I am on a Mutants & Masterminds kick right now.  It is like Hero Lite for me.  It is not quite as flexible, but much easier to stat something up on the fly.  Its d20 heritage makes it easier to get D&D junkies to give it a try.

It does not lend itself well to a gritty feel, but I have never been a fan of grit.  It does cinematic play well and that is exactly what I like to run.

Online Myrleena

Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2009, 03:52:54 PM »
I have seen Scion, but I haven't had the chance to play it.  I'd like to, but the one person I know who has it, wouldn't use the base world for things, so it kind of throws a kink into things.  I'd personally like to try playing, but... *shrugs*

Other systems I've played have been: Alternity, Old World of Darkness Revised, Big Eyes Small Mouth, Shadowrun (2nd and 3rd), Legend of the Five Rings (Bad GM), Immortal, and Mutant Chronicles.

And all I can say is, if I'm a player, my dice normally hate me.  Seriously, Mutant Chronicles uses a version of the d20 system, where a 1 is a critical success, and a 20 is a botch.  I was playing in both it and D&D, on the same night, using the same die.  I botched 5 times in Mutant Chronicles, Crit succeeded none, and Botched 8 times in D&D, and got no Crit Successes.

Offline MasterMischief

Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2009, 04:01:06 PM »
Dice hate me too.  I love the Hero Point and taking 10 in Mutants & Masterminds.

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Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2009, 05:15:54 PM »
I spent 3 years running an L5R campaign. Very good game, but a bad GM can wreck anything.

I recommend Scion if you get the chance.

Online Myrleena

Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2009, 05:32:28 PM »
Yeah.  He was running his L5R game like a Call of Cthulu game, and didn't tell anyone beforehand.  And was running us, as base starting characters, through the Second Day of Thunder.  We couldn't do anything, and you could see the railroad.

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Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2009, 06:06:33 PM »
That's insane.

Online Myrleena

Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2009, 06:26:10 PM »
Yeah, after he used one of my 'favorable past' bits to get me possessed by the Dark Oracle of Fire, and then my 8 point Artifact advantage got turned into a Phoenix egg that never hatched, we got frustrated enough to quit.

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Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2009, 06:32:45 PM »
I wouldn't blame you. I've been fairly fortunate in the group I play with, never had anything like that happen.

Online Myrleena

Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2009, 07:02:17 PM »
*shrugs* It was right after I'd finished my D&D Epic Level game.  I was burnt out, so I was letting other people GM.  He was willing to try.  We'll never let him try with us again.

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Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2009, 07:05:09 PM »
Heh. Kinda reminds me of a very short lived MERP game back at school. We let the guy try GMing. He took our party of starting characters into Moria.

Guess who we met?  :P

One Balrog later and at least half the group was dead, and his career as GM was over :)

Online Myrleena

Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2009, 07:26:15 PM »
*nods*  Yeah...I've heard horror stories about MERP from my GF....she's taught me a lot about how bad things can go.  There are just some people that shouldn't GM.

On the other hand, I maintain my position that every system has its advantages and disadvantages.  It'd be very hard to tone down Exalted enough to play a D&D game, after all!  Possible, but difficult.

Offline Callie Del NoireTopic starter

Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2009, 07:41:31 PM »
Hmmm... games I've played

D&D (Basic though 3.5)
Pathfinder
Buffy/Angel
Shadowrun (1 thru 4)
Cyberpunk (original and 2020)
Mutants and Masterminds
Marvel Superheroes
Spycraft
Top Secret SI
Scion: Hero
BESM (1st and 2nd)
Orginal World of Darkness (Vampire, Magic, teeeny bit of Changeling)
Call of Cthulhu (Orignal, d20, Delta Green and Gaslight)

As for Pathfinder making 3e books redundant? I don't.. I have one GM on RPOL who adapted Goliaths, Warforged and such and was intent on using the Forgetten Realms.

4e makes 3e books obsolete. Not Pathfinder.

Online Myrleena

Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2009, 08:08:04 PM »
As for Pathfinder making 3e books redundant? I don't.. I have one GM on RPOL who adapted Goliaths, Warforged and such and was intent on using the Forgotten Realms.

4e makes 3e books obsolete. Not Pathfinder.

Agreed.  I just spent an hour or two transcribing feats and several classes for my home Pathfinder game, adjusting a few so that they fit the different rules.  Took minimal tweaking, and honestly my Polearm Users need a few more feats.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2009, 10:43:23 PM »
I meant Paizo wanting it's customers to think 3.x is 'dead'.  Because if it's not, then there's no reason to go all that far into PFRPG, and that means no buying their books.  After all, if you can just dump stuff into it, there's no point in buying their Monster Manuals, or anything other than their adventures.  Not buying their books, means no more money for Pathfinder, no money for Pathfinder, well, you know where this is going.

So they need to convince you that you're shelf full of 3.x stuff is worthless without their own books.  Which...  Well, that's dead wrong.

Online Myrleena

Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2009, 11:50:53 PM »
You're completely misrepresenting everything Chris.  3.5 as it is is dead.  No more books are being produced.  The number of 3.5 Player's Handbooks, Dungeon Master's Guides, and Monster Manuals is locked.  Sure, you can get them right now, but later?  Not so much.  They can't copy things exactly as they are, under the OGL, so they built Pathfinder.  It's close enough, and lo and behold, now there is a source of new rulebooks for those who want to purchase them.  If they tried to just put out their adventures for 3.5, they might stay in business for a few years, but they'd probably lose so much business by the end that they'd lose everything, because the system they want to support would be out of print.

I can dump stuff into it.  I've seen the lead designers tell people to do so.  But because over 90% of the 3.5 products can't be used by them, they have to go with what they have.  And I, for one, like the fact that they pay more attention to me than WotC ever did.  I gave a couple of harsh reviews of their products on their site, asking why something was done, and the lead editor replied to me, and gave me a few ideas as to the actual reasons for it.  They have open beta tests, unlike a lot of people do.  And I participated in them.  They actually listened to what people thought.  So I'm sorry, but your comments mostly sound like sour grapes and irk me somewhat.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2009, 04:37:23 PM »
So all my 3.x books are gone?  They don't exist anymore?  I dunno, they all seem to be right there.  I don't need a 'supplement treadmill' to tell me whether or not I can use a game system.  Frankly, a game is as dead as you the player want it to be.  And for me, 3.x is still very much alive.  I don't need anything new.

Just because new books are not being produced a dead game doesn't make it so.  In fact, odds are everyone STILL interested in 3.x either ALREADY has the books (Not likely to get new players, not when 4e is the big monkey) or has access to the D20 SRD which is FREE and LEGAL at www.D20SRD.org  You are working on some incorrect assumptions, which Paizo wants you to believe.  How else are the going to make any money?  Now, don't get me wrong, I am not slamming Paizo.  This is GOOD BUSINESS.  It's how most companies make money.  And if it works, more power to them, but at the same time I am going to explain why I, me, Christopher V. Brady doesn't like certain aspects of their marketing.  You do NOT have to agree with me, nor do I expect you to.

And they are wrong.  Everything that isn't product identity CAN be used in PF.  Legally.  WoTC cannot take back the D20 license.  That means they can incorporate things like Book of Nine Swords, the various Complete series books, some parts of the various other non-setting books, and parts of those too.  Just so long as they don't retype it word for word.

I also was in the PFRPG beta test, but when they didn't listen to most of us (And we were EXCEPTIONALLY polite.  And we avoided the Fan wank in their forums...  Dear God the bile thrown at us for having the GALL, the UNMITIGATED GALL of disagreeing with a couple of design choices...  The early forums were not very nice...) we left.  No point if having an Open Beta when no one actually responds and listens to E-Mails.  Personally, I would have accepted if they actually responded to my GM's E-mails about certain changes and they said 'No' and maybe even explained them.  Instead, we get silence.  And a product that doesn't look like it's actually been tested and edited (Have they corrected Hideous Laughter yet?  I have no idea if they did or not.)  They 'nerfed' somethings but boosted others, to the point where it really doesn't change much.  Just enough to kill backwards compatibility (Which for the record, would mean that the PHB would be required to use, instead of the PFRPG core.)

Now, here's the BIG THING.  If YOU, and YOUR FRIENDS are HAPPY with Pathfinder, that's perfectly fine.  All of this is MY opinion (Except for the Open License thing, Paizo really don't have their hands tied as they think they do when it comes to what they can add) and frankly isn't a quest, or a rampage or anything of the sort.

I wanted PFRPG to be MY D&D game.  Sadly, it didn't turn out that way, because the problems I had (Which I found aren't only me, sadly) are not solved, and in some cases made worse.

Online Myrleena

Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2009, 06:39:31 PM »
So all my 3.x books are gone?  They don't exist anymore?  I dunno, they all seem to be right there.  I don't need a 'supplement treadmill' to tell me whether or not I can use a game system.  Frankly, a game is as dead as you the player want it to be.  And for me, 3.x is still very much alive.  I don't need anything new.

I'm not going to respond to the rest of the vitrol.

Guess what.  I've had three separate people ask me where they could buy a copy of the rules.  You have your copies, great for you, but that doesn't help the people who want to get into the game and can't find a new copy of the core rules.  You don't need it, great.  You aren't the audience they're trying to approach.  And I'm not the player, unfortunate as that may be.  I'm the GM, and I have two separate RL gaming groups.  One hadn't played 3.5 at all, and your assumption of using the d20 SRD?  They don't want to.  They want to have a hardcopy in front of them, and not a crappy one they've printed out.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Pathfinder RPG
« Reply #49 on: November 13, 2009, 11:09:56 PM »
I know people running Original DnD at the local game shop, 1st Edition is still popular as is 2nd Edition. 3.X oddly went out of favor after they pulled the 3.5 version on us and we felt ripped off.

2nd Edition is a great example several players were in the playtest groups for that, they playtested it for two years with gaming groups trying it and making recommendations. In fact they saved the Bard when people wanted it. Now do they playtest the new rules with gaming groups for two years asking US what WE WANT to see in the DnD game? No.

Pathfinder RPG is in my view what 4th Edition should have been fixing the earlier rules and having a well tested final edition of the game.