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Author Topic: Ninjas v. Pirates  (Read 3051 times)

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Offline SleepyWei

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2009, 05:33:15 PM »
If your getting your results from the 'Deadliest Warrior' show then I highly suggest you to rethink everything.

A pirate also has the follow:

Buckler
Dagger
Tomahawks
Caltrop

Those weapons were very affective in close hand combat and both Tomahawks and caltrop were good for range as well. Also, I'd like to see the ninja being able to dodge something that's small and fast like a bullet. They may have trained themselves on dodging arrows or maybe even blow darts but a bullet brings a whole new level to speed that I doubt they would ever have known.

Saying pirates cannot swim is downright insulting to them. Most pirates used to be professional sailors for the navy before they were cut loose thanks to disarmament. That led them to take to piracy. Also, don't go and stereotype pirates as eye-patch and peg legs with hook arms. That's like stereotyping guys with glasses as being smart.

And also, I personally think the Spartan would have had his butt handed to him by the pirate. Hell, the pirate's guns could blow past steel. What can his more weaker and heavier bronze armor do against that?

Offline Paradox

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2009, 06:31:45 PM »
Ninja were not a one-trick pony, samurai could blur lines when they wanted to.

Those are two different styles of warrior!

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2009, 06:34:49 PM »
I suspect the ninja would simply sneak aboard the pirates ship, poison the food / water / rum and leave, and wait for the pirates to drop dead :)

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Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2009, 06:46:24 PM »
Most likely the rum - be sure to get everyone that way.  ;)

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2009, 09:40:06 PM »
Those are two different styles of warrior!
No, the way the original post was put made it sound like samurai were honor-infallible on the battlefield and met their opponents full-on.

Such was not the case.

Offline Avis habilis

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2009, 09:06:06 AM »
Most likely the rum - be sure to get everyone that way.  ;)

Plus what with the whole master-of-disguise thing, you can never be sure that some of your alleged pirates aren't actually ninja!

Offline Captain Maltese

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2009, 09:16:40 AM »
I wrote this once...

Pirate versus Ninja
(a slightly less than neutral comparison)

Upbringing:
Ninjas: living rigidly in a monastery from about five, surrounded by monks and eunuchs
Pirates: born in the slum, growing up hand-to-mouth in the docks and going to sea at the age of nine

Chosen loves:
Ninjas: demure girls of etiquette and well behaviour, be they schoolgirls or geishas
Pirates: drunken whores or runaway governors' daughters, which amounts to pretty much the same

Healing:
Ninja: wisened oriental doctors will cure poisons with herbal treatments and do flawless amputations.
Pirates: drunk and fatalistic quacks will cure poisons with hot rum and do amputations.

Drinking:
Ninja: tea and sake, both in tightly measured amounts; preferably served in elaborate ceremonies
Pirate: beer, grog, cognac, rum, wine, and in a pinch small remnants of all of the above slushed into one glass; served with a thump on the table, or with a giggle on the bedstand, or with a catsnarl in your face.

Combat technique:
Ninjas: elaborate fighting skills acquired through countless hours of studying and training
Pirates: less elaborate fighting skills, acquired through countless brawls and fistfights, and living on a rolling sailship with a hundred other malicious thugs

Weapons:
Ninjas: katanas, throwing stars, blowpipes, all optimally constructed for a silent kill
Pirates: sabers, muskets, merlin spikes, daggers, bar stools, broken bottles

Hierarchy:
Ninjas: complete obedience to the elders and masters until he should one unlikely day be chosen to sit among them
Pirates: gets to vote one of his own mates to be his captain and can be chosen if his mates thinks he'll do the job well


Successfull career goal:
Ninja: becoming a teacher, savoring the respect of the pupils and watch the sunrise from the roof of your own dojo while drinking tea
Pirate: become filthy rich, be pardoned by the governor, have the hottest girl in town for your wife and watch the sunrise as you stagger in bed with her and her twin sister after the night's party

Usual death:
Ninja: poison accident, intelligent bodyguard, or mission betrayed by own master for political reasons
Pirate: fatal venerary disease, Marine musket bayonet piercing, falling from the rig, or a short fall with a hard stop



Conclusion:
Ninja: lives a life of seclusion, training, discipline and dignity, working only for the greater good of the monastery. Or rather, for the political ambitions of the leaders of the monastery. He'll never leave the monastery.
Pirate: lives a life of poverty and lawbreaking, pleasures are raw and base, he cares only for himself and his shipmates and his family, and will likely never come out of the slum.


But while the ninja will have lived a life as a tool barely permitted to live a life of his own the pirate will have been his own man, until the last gurgle in his choking throat.

Offline BluDragonX

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2009, 11:31:37 PM »
Ok I have been needing to add this pic to this tread for soem time now.

« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 11:30:11 AM by BluDragonX »

Offline Paradox

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2009, 10:36:55 AM »
I don't see a picture.

Offline BluDragonX

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2009, 11:46:58 AM »
ggrr Why did it not work.. dam it

Offline TheWriter

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2009, 11:55:01 AM »
Little-known fact for those saying firearms are the decider: if a ninja anticipated combat against ranged weaponry, they would don chainmail underneath their garb.

Also ninjas, because the lifetime of training and missions that everyone's talking about give them killer figures.  All you'll get from a life of drinking rum and shooting things is a beer gut.

Offline Captain Maltese

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2009, 12:02:47 PM »
A pirate is a sailor on a ship. His day consists of climbing in rigging and carrying heavy stuff under a boiling sun, and the food isnt exactly fattened and sweetened to taste better. Beer gut....right.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2009, 12:05:25 PM »
Pirates..... Ninjas.. Meh..


I see them all and raise you NAVY SEALS! MUhahahahah


Basically Pirates who ARE Ninjas!

neener

Offline SleepyWei

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2009, 04:34:08 PM »
Little-known fact for those saying firearms are the decider: if a ninja anticipated combat against ranged weaponry, they would don chainmail underneath their garb.

Also ninjas, because the lifetime of training and missions that everyone's talking about give them killer figures.  All you'll get from a life of drinking rum and shooting things is a beer gut.


First of all, a chainmail won't do jack against a pirate's version of the shotgun. Second of all, if that girl is a ninja, then I highly advise her to seek a better occupation. Red makes her an eyesore even at night.

And I think that former navy soldiers have much better training than a ninja.

Offline Captain Maltese

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2009, 05:09:04 PM »
Ninjas are probably trained better to be murderers than pirates are, let's accept that. But in a fight those silent moves are wasted once it's on.

Offline BluDragonX

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2009, 03:00:38 AM »
take 2 on adding the pick

That works

Offline TheWriter

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2009, 04:14:41 AM »
First of all, a chainmail won't do jack against a pirate's version of the shotgun.
Shotguns as we know them didn't come into common use until the 18th century.  Provided we're comparing them to ninjas at the height of their proliferation in the 16th century, gunfire was still single-shot slugs.  It'll knock a ninja down, definitely, but the chainmain would ensure it certainly wouldn't keep him there.  And that's being generous to start with, presuming the pirate would get his shot off.

Quote
Second of all, if that girl is a ninja, then I highly advise her to seek a better occupation. Red makes her an eyesore even at night.
I will hear not one word against Taki.  Besides, my point still stands; you might call the sight of her an eyesore, but I call her a sight for sore eyes.

Quote
And I think that former navy soldiers have much better training than a ninja.
To be fair, not every pirate was a former navy soldier.

Offline Captain Maltese

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2009, 06:32:05 AM »
Shotguns as we know them didn't come into common use until the 18th century.  Provided we're comparing them to ninjas at the height of their proliferation in the 16th century, gunfire was still single-shot slugs.  It'll knock a ninja down, definitely, but the chainmain would ensure it certainly wouldn't keep him there.  And that's being generous to start with, presuming the pirate would get his shot off.
I will hear not one word against Taki.  Besides, my point still stands; you might call the sight of her an eyesore, but I call her a sight for sore eyes.
To be fair, not every pirate was a former navy soldier.

Um. Chainmail doesn't stop a lead bullet, even if it's just a black powder one. If it had, Napoleon and Wellingtomn's troops would have presented a different sight indeed.

Offline WhiteyChan

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2009, 07:30:15 AM »
As a member of the Kontraband.com forum, I must insist that ninjas will always win against pirates.

Offline TheWriter

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2009, 09:47:23 AM »
Um. Chainmail doesn't stop a lead bullet, even if it's just a black powder one. If it had, Napoleon and Wellington's troops would have presented a different sight indeed.
I didn't say it wouldn't.  I'm sure it'd still hurt like hell, but punching through chainmail would dampen a lot of the stopping power.  Besides, Napoleon and Wellington's armies were, again, 19th century forces.  Ninja, who can be traced back as far as the 600s, predate them by over a millenium.  My argument is that pirates of that era wouldn't have access to the inarguably superior weaponry you're championing.  It's like saying that Gauls were better than Romans because modern day France has a bigger nuclear stockpile than Italy.

Also, I'm about to go off on a massive tangent here, so bear with me.

It's true that the proliferation of firearms in Japan was one of the major forces that effectively eradicated the feudal era, alongside the Western traders that introduced them, but that brings me to why I disagree with the comparison between pirates and ninja: these are two archetypes of warriors separated not just by time or lifestyle.  There was a time that to sail the open seas meant encountering pirates, preparing merchant vessels for do-or-die battles against pirates which if popular culture has taught us anything they inevitably lose.  One begs to ask, what happened?  In the same vein, what happened to the vikings?  The Mongols?  Destroyed by their own reputation, by an ambitious force wanting to unite the world, be it the British Empire, the Normans, the Romans, or even the East India Trade Co.  Their kind were wiped from the face of the earth, as were the samurai.  But at the same time, what of the ninja?  Yes, Joe Schmuck on the street corner can learn how to fight like they did, what Edo-period gadgets have been popularized by modern culture are easily explained and replicated, but very little is known about the workings of the ninja, how they truly functioned in society. 

While famous pirates can be named in the dozens, like Francis Drake, Calico Jack, Black Sam Bellamy, etc; with ninja you get a list of names of people who could've been ninja, such as Hanzo Hattori, Sasuke Sarutobi or Kotaro Fuuma, and even then these were merely samurai with peculiar interests, or several warriors given one moniker, or may have simply never existed at all.  The point is, there is no one person in history that can be pointed at as an example of a ninja, only myths, legends, ghost stories.  They acted on a level of secrecy unprecedented in their time; for all anyone knows they could still exist today, if in a less romanticized form like modern pirates.  The bottom line is, pirates and ninja are separated not just by time, but by infamy.  As far as I'm concerned it'd be more apt to compare ninja to something like the Illuminati than with pirates.  After all, how can something vanish without a trace if it left next to no trace to begin with?
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 09:48:57 AM by TheWriter »

Offline Defiance

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2009, 10:00:13 AM »
To help the troupe that needed helping in the first place;

If it's supposed to have a "ninjas are better" kinda spin to it, then a performance where a group of pirates are slowly taken down by ninjas, followed by a duel between said ninja and the pirate captain in which something silly ends up leaving the pirate captain unable to battle/be defeated, would probably serve.

Laughter, suspense, murder, fighting...

Great show all around, says I.

Offline Captain Maltese

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #46 on: August 28, 2009, 10:12:58 AM »
Well, since I love this topic...

TheWriter, the reason that the ninja didn't have any famous fighters is that they were - as far as I'm aware - monks. Well trained, but none the less cannon fodder for sale for money, or religious or political gain.

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Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #47 on: August 28, 2009, 10:19:23 AM »
Actually, it was supposed to be a bit of banter between the ninjas and pirates before a bit of fighting, lots of dying, and then essentially Phoenix Downs all around.

Bits like 'Ninjas have a long history based in tradition.  You got bought out by Disney.'

Offline Captain Maltese

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2009, 10:24:26 AM »
'Yeah, but your kind is called terrorists today!'

Offline TheWriter

Re: Ninjas v. Pirates
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2009, 10:54:15 AM »
TheWriter, the reason that the ninja didn't have any famous fighters is that they were - as far as I'm aware - monks. Well trained, but none the less cannon fodder for sale for money, or religious or political gain.
If any caste were used as cannon fodder, it were the bushi: entry-level warriors, the burger-flippers of the samurai world.  Even then, if they could be spared in lieu of peasant volunteers or militia, all the better.  Ninja operated outside of the caste system; they were respected as warriors of incredible aptitude and loyalty, but seen as below the samurai for resorting to 'dishonorable' means.

Ninja were considered too useful to waste as fodder, and were used much in the same way as modern armies' special forces units; espionage, protection, assassination, essentially anything the samurai didn't want to soil their hands or their honor with.  While there were mercenary ninja clans that worked for whoever paid more, it's generally accepted (but understandably difficult to prove) that more than one great leader had a ninja clan under oath to him, such as the Hojo family's assumed arrangement with the Fuuma ninja clan.

The equivalent of monks in medieval Japan were, well, monks.  Having said that, even monks could rise to positions of power; the most notable of which was Kenshin Uesugi, a Buddhist monk who rose as high as daimyo (the rough equivalent of a lord or earl), and attained such skill in battle to be reputed as the reincarnation of their god of war, Bishamonten.

Oh, and before we get ahead of ourselves:
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 11:01:16 AM by TheWriter »