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Author Topic: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]  (Read 258207 times)

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Offline Inkidu

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5250 on: March 17, 2012, 07:38:14 AM »
I honestly think it was BioWare's call on this one. I've got some speculative evidence.

It's really integrated well into the game overall. It has (in point of fact) too much importance in the single player aspect. It has a story basis for why it exists and it happens in the universe as the single player is going on. Most achievements have a multiplayer and single player condition. It does not smack of being shoehorned in, which actually makes it worse that so much of the single player aspect ride on multiplayer.

I'm sure you can get the 5K in single player alone, but it's beyond 100% percent completion standards. It's like trying to catch all the Pokemon when half of them are invisible, half of them are rare legendary with absurd conditions, half are locked in other version, and the last half becomes locked out if you go too far into the game. Yes, I am aware of how many halves that is. That's the point.

It's just so damned unfair that people with multiplayer get a cakewalk and we get something the official guide probably doesn't cover. It all could be fixed by adding some  bot multiplayer, but nope it's online or bust. Hell, it would be the perfect game for splitscreen co-op, but no.

Offline SabbyTopic starter

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5251 on: March 17, 2012, 08:01:19 AM »
Hey, I never said shoehorned in, just forced to include it. Could have been involved from day one, though you do raise a good point... it doesn't explain how it;s integrated in this specific way. I'm more pissed over the War Assets. A good idea on paper, but it's cheapening my moral decisions, and turning them into a numeric value. I have to make stupid decisions for the sake of roleplaying, and it highlights how childish and idealist The Alliance can be, something that's irked me from the first game.

Do I be good and get some soldiers? Or be bad and get soldiers, a fleet, and a team of scientists? The General in me says duh, take the bigger assets, the Paragon in me goes NO! WE MUST STAND TOGETHER! The Council are selfish and cowardly for not siding with us every time we present our Human centred plans with no evidence to support our claims. So much racism, wahh!

Offline Inkidu

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5252 on: March 17, 2012, 11:15:58 AM »
Hey, I never said shoehorned in, just forced to include it. Could have been involved from day one, though you do raise a good point... it doesn't explain how it;s integrated in this specific way. I'm more pissed over the War Assets. A good idea on paper, but it's cheapening my moral decisions, and turning them into a numeric value. I have to make stupid decisions for the sake of roleplaying, and it highlights how childish and idealist The Alliance can be, something that's irked me from the first game.

Do I be good and get some soldiers? Or be bad and get soldiers, a fleet, and a team of scientists? The General in me says duh, take the bigger assets, the Paragon in me goes NO! WE MUST STAND TOGETHER! The Council are selfish and cowardly for not siding with us every time we present our Human centred plans with no evidence to support our claims. So much racism, wahh!
I think the War Assets idea is too big. It had too many variables. It makes it very difficult to gauge. I've tried applying math to it, but a lot of the assets come from decisions made in 1 and 2, and you better have made the right Goddamn choice. I wonder how people just playing Mass Effect 3 playthroughs are going to get 5K. It has to be doable, right? I mean that would be pretty chicken-shit of Mr. Hudson to not include the best ending in the game you get it in, right?

The story is okay. Actually, like I said, the more I play the endings the better they actually get. Now, it's not the best possible ending, but that's hidden by 5K apparently. A freaking unobtainable 5K. They're a little bigger and more metaphysical than they should be, but they're okay. These gameplay issues. They're a more important fix in my book.

Offline SabbyTopic starter

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5253 on: March 17, 2012, 11:20:10 AM »
Actually, I'm not having much trouble getting the 5k. Granted, I'm not sure where in the plot I am, but I've only done three of the main quests I think, and I've got half the 5k already. Granted, I cruise the Normandy and Citadel after every mission for side quests, and have almost 100% explored each new system, AND I have the save games from ME1 and ME2.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5254 on: March 17, 2012, 11:28:38 AM »
Actually, I'm not having much trouble getting the 5k. Granted, I'm not sure where in the plot I am, but I've only done three of the main quests I think, and I've got half the 5k already. Granted, I cruise the Normandy and Citadel after every mission for side quests, and have almost 100% explored each new system, AND I have the save games from ME1 and ME2.
Spoiler it and tell me exactly where you are.

Offline SabbyTopic starter

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5255 on: March 17, 2012, 11:36:25 AM »
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
I just saved The Council from a Space Ninja. RIP Thane.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5256 on: March 17, 2012, 12:06:08 PM »
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
I just saved The Council from a Space Ninja. RIP Thane.
You might do it, but I did the most exhaustive game I know how and only topped out at high 3K. I just don't get it.

Offline SabbyTopic starter

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5257 on: March 17, 2012, 12:18:29 PM »
That's what ya get for not playing the multiplayer :P

Offline Inkidu

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5258 on: March 17, 2012, 12:25:04 PM »
That's what ya get for not playing the multiplayer :P
That's what I get for not having a high-speed multiplayer-supporting internet connection. Though aren't you in the same boat, Captain Von ModChip Pants? :P

Offline SabbyTopic starter

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5259 on: March 17, 2012, 12:41:03 PM »
That, and I don't care about multiplayer :P There are ways around it, on PC and Xbox (I'm playing on PC, so it's even easier to get on to multiplayer with a pirated copy) but I don't want to.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5260 on: March 17, 2012, 01:18:54 PM »
That, and I don't care about multiplayer :P There are ways around it, on PC and Xbox (I'm playing on PC, so it's even easier to get on to multiplayer with a pirated copy) but I don't want to.
Why am I always being punished for doing the right thing? D':

Offline Hemingway

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5261 on: March 17, 2012, 03:11:08 PM »
3K as in 3K, or 3K as in you had 6K but only 50% rating?

Because I finished SP with over 6K, but I didn't do any MP, so ... only 50%.

But, hey! If it's any consolation...

ending spoilers
It doesn't really matter. In fact, getting a low score might be the more humane thing to do: the guys who die on Earth, instead of having to wait for starvation ( which is what would happen with the relay network gone ), they blow up instantly.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5262 on: March 17, 2012, 04:37:06 PM »
3K as in 3K, or 3K as in you had 6K but only 50% rating?

Because I finished SP with over 6K, but I didn't do any MP, so ... only 50%.

But, hey! If it's any consolation...

ending spoilers
It doesn't really matter. In fact, getting a low score might be the more humane thing to do: the guys who die on Earth, instead of having to wait for starvation ( which is what would happen with the relay network gone ), they blow up instantly.
Six K cut by half.

You're supposed to be able to get 10K but I've played through the game twice, and never even got close. So I think Hudson's a liar and the rest of the internet thinks he's a no-talent hack. Sadly, I think he's beyond punishment at BioWare.

Offline Hemingway

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5263 on: March 17, 2012, 04:39:50 PM »
Hudson, a liar?

Get out of here! Next you'll be saying the Earth is round and revolves around the sun! Hah!

Offline Inkidu

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5264 on: March 17, 2012, 04:42:21 PM »
Hudson, a liar?

Get out of here! Next you'll be saying the Earth is round and revolves around the sun! Hah!
What else has he lied about besides ME3?

You might not like Bethesda, but they just moved to the top of my WRPG list. Obsidian's there too. Sad day when Obsidian becomes a rock in any foundation. :(

Offline Hemingway

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5265 on: March 17, 2012, 05:08:29 PM »
What else has he lied about besides ME3?

You might not like Bethesda, but they just moved to the top of my WRPG list. Obsidian's there too. Sad day when Obsidian becomes a rock in any foundation. :(

Besides ME3? Well, nothing I know of. But, damn, he told a lot of lies about that one.

I used to love Bethesda, but lately they've been getting too formulaic for my tastes. Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Skyrim are more than superficially similar. I don't like it when that happens. It sort of kills the joy of discovery. I mean, I'm not in favor of fixing what isn't broken, but I'm not in favor of stagnation either.

Obsidian have made some damn good games, though. I always liked KotOR2 better than the original. I also happen to think New Vegas is far better than Fallout 3. I also liked Alpha Protocol, even though it's a deeply flawed game. NWN 2 didn't really do it for me, but that's the only one of their games I've played that I didn't, well, love.

If anything is wrong with Obsidian being anyone's favorite developer, it's that ... really, you'd expect someone would be able to produce high quality, original stuff that wasn't deeply flawed in some way.

Offline SabbyTopic starter

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5266 on: March 17, 2012, 05:28:10 PM »
Obsidian won't be their own boss until they can release an original product. I don't know what they may have done before the current gen, or what the members were up to before they started calling themselves Obsidian, but from what I can see, they rely on other companies work. To get a foothold, they'de need their own work, and so far, they've just shown me they can't contend with Bethesda and Bioware in that regard. Alpha Protocol was a lot of really great ideas but the execution was... the kindest word I can find is 'lacking'.

If AP is an example of what they can do when given creative freedom, then they either need to start slowing the hell down and testing their goods, or sticking to other peoples sequels. And considering they just fired a good chunk of their employers, they may already be getting started on a company overhaul.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5267 on: March 17, 2012, 05:36:02 PM »
I didn't say they were bad. I said they were unstable. There work is usually so riddled with glitches and bugs I'm very cautious about using it to get non gamers into gaming. You expect an amount of professionalism. You want to put the best foot forward. Sure, Obsidian makes good games with original concepts, but it's kind of like reading the final draft of a book that's never seen the word editor. So when I think of Obsidian as one of my foundation developers it makes me just a little jittery.

I mean Dungeon Siege 3 had no bugs to speak of, but that was after they acknowledged they had a bug problem. I think Obsidian needs to reign in the creative process. Hold themselves to deadlines. I think the industry as a whole needs to do this, but Obsidian doubly so.

I always here the excuse that, "I'd rather them take longer and get it right." However, AP is proof against that. It was supposed to come out a year previous to its eventual release (they didn't tell anyone so everyone was pissed when it wasn't out), and when it finally got to shelves it was riddled with bugs and one... really... crappily-voiced... protagonist.

It did some things I liked, like I never played anything but the blank-slate build. That was cool. Right now Obsidian comes off less like a genius and more like a savant.

Offline Hemingway

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5268 on: March 17, 2012, 05:51:07 PM »
See, that's sort of what I like about Obsidian. Obsidian sort of give me this impression that they're a bunch of people with really great ideas and grand visions, and ... at their meetings everyone acts like they're high on sugar, throwing ideas around like WOULDN'T IT BE AWESOME IF

And then when they produce it, it doesn't quite work out, but it's fun!

I'd take a fun, glitchy ( assuming it's not gamebreaking - I haven't had that, ever ) game over a formulaic, uninspired by highly polished game any day.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5269 on: March 17, 2012, 07:00:20 PM »
See, that's sort of what I like about Obsidian. Obsidian sort of give me this impression that they're a bunch of people with really great ideas and grand visions, and ... at their meetings everyone acts like they're high on sugar, throwing ideas around like WOULDN'T IT BE AWESOME IF

And then when they produce it, it doesn't quite work out, but it's fun!

I'd take a fun, glitchy ( assuming it's not gamebreaking - I haven't had that, ever ) game over a formulaic, uninspired by highly polished game any day.
Depends on peoples' tolerances for gamebreaking. You or I might be willing to sit through ten freezes on New Vegas, but who says the guy down the street who plays games just as much has the same tolerance.

I think if you get paid to make video games there needs to be a set number of core goals.

Of course, I think publishers or even big developers would benefit form experimental studios. Studios that get a decent budget just to churn out creative ideas. Indie studious if you will. They can still devote the bulk of their resources to key properties and if an indie idea takes off it can get more funding from the main branch, but if it bombs they didn't break on it.

It's not like this is a new idea. It exists in movies all the time. 20th Century Fox has Fox Searchlight. So maybe Obsidian needs Obsidian Big Rock Productions or something.

Offline SabbyTopic starter

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5270 on: March 17, 2012, 07:07:19 PM »
Just had a bit of a random thought just now... ya remember when that unwritten law was made up that every cartoon had to have an Asian and an African American as main characters, because it was suddenly not cool to be racist?

Am I the only one noticing the exact same thing happening with gaming and homosexuals? Granted, Mass Effect 3 is doing it in a very natural, convincing way, but take New Vegas for example. You're partner choices were like a sampler, with a gay and straight guy, and a gay and straight girl. It's almost as if it were... shoehorned in, somehow. Ya know. To show people they're cool with that sort of thing.

Yeah, I think we're going to see a lot more of this.

Offline Hemingway

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5271 on: March 17, 2012, 07:07:45 PM »
Yeah, I always wonder about those bugs people talk about. Because, frankly, I tend not to notice them, unless they're major bugs that require me to reload or something like that. If it's that ... my companion runs off and I have to wait an hour for them to reappear, then ... it's not something I find terribly frustrating.

Ugh.

Anyway. I've been disappointed so often recently, that ... basically, I'm not very hopeful at all. I wonder when the next great game is going to come out. And what it'll be.

Offline Geeklet

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5272 on: March 17, 2012, 07:21:52 PM »
I don't know what they may have done before the current gen, or what the members were up to before they started calling themselves Obsidian...

Do games like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment sound familiar? Most of the founders of Obsidian were part of Interplay/Black Isle

Offline SabbyTopic starter

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5273 on: March 17, 2012, 07:35:34 PM »
Played all three, just not very far... I'm too much of a modern gamer, for better and for worse :( I'll whine about a lack of depth or difficulty in my games, but I try something like PS:T and I just buckle. Can't do it. Even Fallout was a struggle for me to get through, and I only got to the base where The Master is. It's the pointless dicking around with convoluted menus, the lack of direction, the vague objectives, the extremely trial and error centred gameplay, no matter what I do with these kinds of old school games, I never feel like I'm playing 'right'. I can get along fine, but there's this feeling I'm fucking it up.

Hell, I tried to get into Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick the other day. I genuinely liked what I saw on Youtube, but actually playing it sapped all my enthusiasm within an hour. And yet, I know I'll get some measure of enjoyment from the next Call of Duty. It's like I'm just not made to have it both ways...

Offline Hemingway

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #5274 on: March 17, 2012, 08:23:34 PM »
As I previously mentioned, Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 are being remade. If they manage to keep what made those games good, and get rid of the things that made them bad, it could be awesome.

I mean, I was playing BG2 just the other day, and I made it out of the Underdark. But combat in that game is just ... horrid. If you run into a battle blind, you probably lose. But unless you know the game by heart, or you don't mind trial and error, there are always going to be fights you can't predict. In those cases, you fight, you lose, you load, you give your party haste, bless, chaotic commands .. uhh, you know, the list goes on.

Also, mages in that game are just .. seriously imbalanced. Maybe that's a reflection of what D&D is like - I wouldn't know - but it's like ... a party with a mage is practically unstoppable. Remove the mage, and they're pathetic. But the mages always have layers upon layers of protection, so ... well, in my experience it's easier to just haste your whole party and have them attack the mage, than to remove their shields, silence, and so on.

Basically, if they improve combat, they improve the game. It doesn't have to be easier, though ... again, especially in BG1, some of the fights in the early game are ... insane. Others are dull because you're incredibly weak and your enemies are incredibly weak, so nine attacks out of ten miss, and the one that does hit ... does pathetic damage. Make it more ... "challenging", less "random".