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Author Topic: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]  (Read 258652 times)

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Offline Brandon

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4875 on: February 09, 2012, 11:52:00 PM »
Yeah, but you have to ask yourself what the game is making you do to get that 140hrs. A lot of JRPGs tend to garner their length through grinding. Very few games actually come close to keeping their hour promise. Skyrim provides hours of exploration alone, but even some people find it to be, "Raid a dungeon, grab up the loot, sell it, repeat." It can get like that, especially if you're looking for dragon shouts. No game will ever deliver the amount of hours it promises, not for me at least. If I have to do the same thing over and over again I've got to find something else to do.

Take X-Com for instance. It's got depth, and you could play it for hours, but some people would see it as the same cut and paste environs scrambled up, and losing half your people per terror mission. It's entirely possible, and they may never play it again. How people perceive their gaming experience has more to do with hours than any developer.

Speaking of X-Com. I was just thinking about it and a (not saying 50s era) X-Com FPS would be awesome. I'm not saying it would be the original, but a shooter in the universe would be this side of epic. I'll tell you why.

I was doing a terror mission in Rio. Luckily it was daytime. This is going to be primarily from the movement of one soldier a squadie codenamed "Ronin". That's what I do, I give code names.

Ronin takes the role of support in my squad. He carries the grenades and other stuff that would bog a sniper or heavy down. This makes him too important to be a scout obviously (poor bastards). Now Ronin has only been in one mission, a four man raid of a small UFO. Anyway, the hatch is down and the men and women begin to fan out and clear the LZ. My troops are presented with a new alien threat (Floaters). Still using Earth-tech assault rifles it takes them the whole turn to get it clear. Eventually it looks clear and the turn ends. Low and behold a grenade goes off (probably 0 primed). There goes six of the ten-man squad. Ronin's still alive. The squad now has one sharpshooter, two scouts with laser pistols, and Ronin.

The scout immediately sets upon a floater. A swift burst of auto fire from Ronin cuts it down. The scout advances fighting through the smoke and haze and Ronin guns down another two floaters with some luck, and a little help from the sharpshooter too. Well eventually more aliens than the team can handle show up and Ronin is out of bullets. He checks his belt, no clip. It looks like time is up for him when he spots a dead comrade by the loading ramp of the skyranger. Running to him he picks up a laser pistol and hunkers down behind the landing gear. With a coordinated effort they fend of the aliens. Ronin even takes a wound but keeps fighting.

I'd like to say it ended well, and the survivors returned to base, but the aliens hit the decimated squad with another grenade and everyone else was killed, Ronin fell unconscious, and then HQ lost the transmission. 

So while I'm as excited as anyone for Enemy Unknown. I'm not going to be so narrow-viewed as to think that X-Com wouldn't make a good FPS. Now I don't really know if the 2K Marin game will pull it off, but if you took the strategy of X-Com and applied it to an FPS you'd get some interesting results.

A random jumble of missions for your soldier to undertake, doesn't have to be the same guy either. Perhaps work panic in their as screen shake or a loss of the aiming reticule. Your end of level ranking could influence your research into new tech and or funding for buying armor and upgrades. Some set pieces. If you get too badly shot up you're out for a month (though obviously you'd never see yourself in a hospital bed for the sake of gaming) and when you take your next mission things aren't so good as when you last left. The fear of your weapons not working against a muton or cyberdisk. Heck, even the ability to get psionics, or a flight suit. Highly-destructible environments.

I think it would be worth looking into, and if done right it could only broaden the appeal of the franchise. I'm hoping that the 2K Marin job is at least decent.

I Almost never loose soldiers on terror missions. You should reconsider your tactics if youre loosing so many so quickly

Anyway I think you misunderstood me. I never said a good X-Com themed FPS couldnt be done. It absolutely can be done. Problem is, that isnt X-Com. It doesnt have the strategic, running of a global organization. Its just an FPS and therefore lacks the depth required for a game to be part of the X-Com franchise.

It goes back to what I said before, X-Com has a very specific formula. If you've played the games you have an expectation for how you play an X-COm game. Deviating to much from that formula cheapens the name X-Com. If people want to make an FPS thats against alien beings invading the world then Im fine with that but call it something else or make a new IP out of it. Its not X-Com

« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 12:03:22 AM by Brandon »

Offline Inkidu

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4876 on: February 10, 2012, 08:21:27 AM »
I bet you have fancy power armor and heavy plasma and psionics too. Oh, and I'm sure you've played the game longer than a week as well.  However, it actually kind of proves the point I'm going to make. If you never lose half your squad to a random alien grenade and go on to beat the mission you're actually missing a lot of X-Com.

Anyway, here's the thing about formulaic games. They're formulaic, and X-Com's is eighteen years old and is hardly perfect. I can point to the completely useless alien research and autopsies. I could point to a myriad of cheating-computer moments, and poor design choices. The formula needs its math checked. That's what this new Xcom: Enemy Unknown game is supposed to try.

However, you're taking a narrow view of what X-Com is. To put it simply I'm not saying turn X-Com the strategy game into X-Com the shooter. I'm saying X-Com could use a lot of its tactical and even strategic doctrines to make its own FPS. It's not turning X-Com into an FPS, it's turning the FPS into X-Com.

Offline Hemingway

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4877 on: February 10, 2012, 08:37:12 AM »
I don't know why X-COM can't be an FPS, or why an FPS can't be X-COM. XCOM ( XCOM without the hyphen is the name of the FPS ) is supposed to have things like research and managing your base, including recruiting people. From what I've read about it, anyway. It's sort of an origin story of the X-COM organization. And that's what X-COM is about; the organization X-COM ( who would've thought? ). Saying an FPS can't be an X-COM game just smacks of elitism, and it's sort of like saying, let's see ... Warhammer 40K can't be a third person action game. Halo can't be an RTS. Or even better, Fallout can't be an FPS.

Does anyone here think Fallout 3 and New Vegas are unworthy of the Fallout name? Any more so than, say, Tactics?

Or it's like saying Apocalypse isn't really an X-COM game, because the aliens are from a different dimension instead of outer space.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4878 on: February 10, 2012, 10:11:08 AM »
I don't know why X-COM can't be an FPS, or why an FPS can't be X-COM. XCOM ( XCOM without the hyphen is the name of the FPS ) is supposed to have things like research and managing your base, including recruiting people. From what I've read about it, anyway. It's sort of an origin story of the X-COM organization. And that's what X-COM is about; the organization X-COM ( who would've thought? ). Saying an FPS can't be an X-COM game just smacks of elitism, and it's sort of like saying, let's see ... Warhammer 40K can't be a third person action game. Halo can't be an RTS. Or even better, Fallout can't be an FPS.

Does anyone here think Fallout 3 and New Vegas are unworthy of the Fallout name? Any more so than, say, Tactics?

Or it's like saying Apocalypse isn't really an X-COM game, because the aliens are from a different dimension instead of outer space.
It's elitist dogma of fans. It's like saying you can't have a Final Fantasy game without Chocobos. Actually, you can it's called the first. Of course, they have to handle it correctly, but keep a franchise the way it is, "Just because." Is stupid. In more extreme examples that leads to things like racism and prejudice.

People, fans of a series especially, think too linear about games they like. It stunts potential. If Faraxis makes a good XCom strategy game, why shouldn't 2K be allowed to expand the franchise? Because it won't be what fans want? Because it's "not X-Com"? I admit leading off with the shooter was pretty stupid, but now that there's a possible honest reimagining of the original why not give it a try? What have you got to lose. I sincrely doubt it's going to rape any rose-colored memories you have of the game.

There are people who said Halo wouldn't make a good RTS, but Halo Wars has been dubbed the equivalent of what Halo did for the console shooter.

When it comes down to it, I'd rather see a lot more chances and change taken than stunted growth because it's what fans want. I might not like the product afterward, but just because there's an X-Com shooter doesn't mean I can't go back and play the original. Fans act like it would taint everything for years to come and the first born children would all be visited by the spirit of death in the night.

Offline Hemingway

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4879 on: February 10, 2012, 10:56:16 AM »
The Darkness 2 is making me want World of Darkness. It's .. weird. I mean, the Darkness isn't weird, it's awesome. It's just weird that it's making me want something that's unrelated. It does have some similarities in theme, though, and like I said before, atmosphere. I mean, the Darkness is inspired by biblical mythology, too, though not that exclusively. It also has that gothic vibe, that sort of oppressive feeling. And it's set in New York, which is an awesome setting for anything dark and gothic.

Offline Brandon

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4880 on: February 10, 2012, 11:01:16 AM »
So because I have a view of what XCom is and is not Im an elistist fanboy...when you guys want to have a civil conversation about the franchise without the name calling you can let me know.

Offline Garou

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4881 on: February 10, 2012, 11:28:03 AM »
I played WOW but I quitted it some time ago.  At the moment I'm playing a few games of the total war series.  I love this strategy game and hope someday to win the great campaign.  I'm also anxious for the upcoming World of darkness MORP.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4882 on: February 10, 2012, 12:39:28 PM »
So because I have a view of what XCom is and is not Im an elistist fanboy...when you guys want to have a civil conversation about the franchise without the name calling you can let me know.
When your view is basically, "Just because that's the way it has to be." (In so many words) That's kind of the definitive response of the elite. :\

Offline Hemingway

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4883 on: February 10, 2012, 04:46:34 PM »
Just finished the Darkness 2. At 6 hours, it's longer than I feared, but .. still not nearly long enough. Still a good story, though, but only, I suspect, if you played the first game. The ending is pretty awesome.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4884 on: February 10, 2012, 04:59:56 PM »
Amazing. Days spent on researching and manufacturing power armor only to have a freaking captain bite it on the first step down the ramp. You do not want to know what happens when someone goes berserk when they're still in the Skyranger. It's not pretty.

Offline Capone

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4885 on: February 10, 2012, 06:35:57 PM »
I don't know why X-COM can't be an FPS, or why an FPS can't be X-COM. XCOM ( XCOM without the hyphen is the name of the FPS ) is supposed to have things like research and managing your base, including recruiting people. From what I've read about it, anyway. It's sort of an origin story of the X-COM organization. And that's what X-COM is about; the organization X-COM ( who would've thought? ). Saying an FPS can't be an X-COM game just smacks of elitism, and it's sort of like saying, let's see ... Warhammer 40K can't be a third person action game. Halo can't be an RTS. Or even better, Fallout can't be an FPS.

In truth, I'm with you. If a game universe is interesting, I'm all for exploring it from different perspectives.

But you're also talking, in some ways, about genre fusion, and just look at what happened when Brutal Legend put Zelda, Elder Scrolls and Herzog Zwei into one package. People bitched. A lot. And missed the whole fun of the game.

Offline Hemingway

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4886 on: February 10, 2012, 07:12:27 PM »
In truth, I'm with you. If a game universe is interesting, I'm all for exploring it from different perspectives.

But you're also talking, in some ways, about genre fusion, and just look at what happened when Brutal Legend put Zelda, Elder Scrolls and Herzog Zwei into one package. People bitched. A lot. And missed the whole fun of the game.

I'm not sure I see the problem. That's their loss, the people who take a narrow view because something isn't what they wanted it to be.

On an unrelated note, I'm learning that length isn't always good. I mean, in and of itself it is, but not when you're playing through the entire Metal Gear series, and the game you really want to play is the last one, but you can't skip the earlier entries because they're actually good games and you want the story. It's basically too much of something good.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4887 on: February 10, 2012, 08:14:52 PM »
I'm not sure I see the problem. That's their loss, the people who take a narrow view because something isn't what they wanted it to be.

On an unrelated note, I'm learning that length isn't always good. I mean, in and of itself it is, but not when you're playing through the entire Metal Gear series, and the game you really want to play is the last one, but you can't skip the earlier entries because they're actually good games and you want the story. It's basically too much of something good.
The fourth is apparently the longest in the series in terms of cutscenes. It has ones breaking the hour mark. Mr. Kojima, remember video game, not movie. Video game, not movie. Actually it's worse than a movie, because if you ate up an hour in a movie it would be half over more or less. Plus I don't think you can pause for any kind of anything.

Offline Wolfy

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4888 on: February 10, 2012, 08:51:06 PM »
Just finished the Darkness 2. At 6 hours, it's longer than I feared, but .. still not nearly long enough. Still a good story, though, but only, I suspect, if you played the first game. The ending is pretty awesome.

6 hours?

That....is unacceptable. @_@

Offline Capone

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4889 on: February 10, 2012, 09:13:12 PM »
I dunno, Vanquish only took me five, but I can see myself going back to replay it partly because of that. It's easier to go back and replay a game that was fun AND doesn't require a major time commitment.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4890 on: February 10, 2012, 10:25:42 PM »
I dunno, Vanquish only took me five, but I can see myself going back to replay it partly because of that. It's easier to go back and replay a game that was fun AND doesn't require a major time commitment.
Vanquish makes me wonder if Japan realizes there are more voice actors than Stephen Blum and Nolan North and that one chick, you know that one woman you hear in everything that isn't as awesome as Jennifer Hale?

Offline Frozen Flame

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4891 on: February 11, 2012, 02:11:03 AM »
As a parent, I kinda like the trend toward shorter games. I'm still chipping away at Dragon Quest VIII whenever I can find the time. Thank God I managed to beat Planescape: Torment and Xenogears before my daughter was born or I'd really be missing out.

Offline Shadowguard

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4892 on: February 11, 2012, 02:13:44 AM »
I am playing a variety of different games that I switch every once in a while throughout the day.

I have been playing:

City of Heroes
Killing Floor
MineCraft
Final Fantasy 7

Offline Perfect Imperfection

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4893 on: February 11, 2012, 02:33:25 AM »
Soul Calibur V! As much as I love the series, this one was disappointing as far as Story mode goes :c

Offline Oniya

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4894 on: February 11, 2012, 02:33:38 AM »
As a parent, I kinda like the trend toward shorter games. I'm still chipping away at Dragon Quest VIII whenever I can find the time. Thank God I managed to beat Planescape: Torment and Xenogears before my daughter was born or I'd really be missing out.

I used to play video games (the early Spyro series) to entertain the little Oni.  It was like cartoons, only we Mommy could control it.

(Bashing sheep got loads of giggles.)

Offline Inkidu

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4895 on: February 11, 2012, 07:15:25 AM »
I used to play video games (the early Spyro series) to entertain the little Oni.  It was like cartoons, only we Mommy could control it.

(Bashing sheep got loads of giggles.)
I often wonder what the guys at Insomniac have against sheep.

Quote from Ratchet and Clank 2: Up Your Arsenal, "No sheep were harmed in the making of this game. Except that one, he deserved it."

Offline LunarSage

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4896 on: February 11, 2012, 08:51:54 AM »
I used to play video games (the early Spyro series) to entertain the little Oni.  It was like cartoons, only we Mommy could control it.

(Bashing sheep got loads of giggles.)

IMO, Spyro changed from a fun little series to something too complicated for what it had been and not so fun anymore.  I was highly disappointed.

Offline SabbyTopic starter

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4897 on: February 11, 2012, 09:49:13 AM »
Isn't it some McDonalds thing now, where little toys come out that are secretly USB's and they plug into a browser game to unlock new contents? Skylanders, or something. If I have that accurate, I kind of like the concept... and it's inevitable, really, what with online games, and gaming in general, now being a normal thing for kids not like it was a decade ago.

Offline Wolfy

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4898 on: February 11, 2012, 08:40:50 PM »
Isn't it some McDonalds thing now, where little toys come out that are secretly USB's and they plug into a browser game to unlock new contents? Skylanders, or something. If I have that accurate, I kind of like the concept... and it's inevitable, really, what with online games, and gaming in general, now being a normal thing for kids not like it was a decade ago.

Skylanders is it's own thing, it's not related to a fast food chain that I know of.

But apparently it is a bit popular.

Offline Oniya

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #4899 on: February 11, 2012, 09:12:51 PM »
IMO, Spyro changed from a fun little series to something too complicated for what it had been and not so fun anymore.  I was highly disappointed.

Much agreed.  I slogged through the first one of the second trilogy, and ragequit the second because of this one blasted mask I couldn't get.  Skylanders looks like it's based on the Spyro characters, and does use toys for plug-in content (I think you have to have the toy to play as the depicted character or something).