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Author Topic: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]  (Read 258495 times)

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3800 on: August 29, 2011, 11:01:42 PM »
I'm kind of going to give my take on those elements.

Story Spoilers
I'd actually argue that the thing with Megan was a good anti-climax. Because the whole time you know she's alive you kind of expect that it's going to be a good reunion. The fact that it's not is jarring and compelling oddly enough.

On the burned body thing. Yeah, I'd kind of be willing to go with you if there wasn't an autopsy report saying she was strangled. Sure, it might have been doctored (and it's obvious later it was) but especially if you find her bracelet I can see Adam not wanting to pursue it any further.

On the White Helix and Megan's final "I-I-" thing. I think it was the fact that they were experimenting on babies that made it bad. Megan obviously got a hold of their research and learned of Adam, so... you know. A leads to B. There's some of it in the background stuff (emails, pocket secs I think) Sarif gives you a lot of info if you can weasel it out of him.

All the lead characters (with exception to Jensen by virtue of player involvement) are kind of simplistic. I think that's so they don't muddle the lines and make their various points very clear. It's your own feelings about this stuff that would make it ambiguous. Even though Sarif and Taggart are kind of shallow in the development department I found them engaging characters nonetheless.

Darrow kind of confused me. I'm going to have to give it a better look. I think what he wanted was to oust the control of the Illuminati. They were using augs as a way to control people and he wanted to go all Assassin's Creed on them. It wasn't so much that he wanted out out augs, but rid himself of the fact that he'd been used.

The story is... a lot less impacting than I thought it would be, but it's very well done as far as I'm concerned.



Offline Hemingway

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3801 on: August 30, 2011, 11:13:56 AM »
I didn't expect you to actually agree with me on any of that. I've given it some more thought, too, and realized that the main problem is with the characters, not the story, per se. A few things could've been different, but mostly it's the characters, for me. Adam is interesting enough, but obviously it depends on how you play him. But he does come off as a tortured and driven person, so ... I guess I'm just disappointed they're not all that interesting. Faridah is pretty good, too. Aside from them ... well, I can't think of any really good ones off the top of my head.

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3802 on: August 30, 2011, 04:28:06 PM »
I didn't expect you to actually agree with me on any of that. I've given it some more thought, too, and realized that the main problem is with the characters, not the story, per se. A few things could've been different, but mostly it's the characters, for me. Adam is interesting enough, but obviously it depends on how you play him. But he does come off as a tortured and driven person, so ... I guess I'm just disappointed they're not all that interesting. Faridah is pretty good, too. Aside from them ... well, I can't think of any really good ones off the top of my head.
They're not going to win any award I agree, but honestly sometimes your stock elements work well and that's kind of what Human Revolution does.

Offline Hemingway

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3803 on: August 30, 2011, 04:53:23 PM »
They're not going to win any award I agree, but honestly sometimes your stock elements work well and that's kind of what Human Revolution does.

If you're making a game that's mostly about, you know, killing bad guys or what have you, I agree. But in a game like Deus Ex, where the story is actually fairly important, I'm not so sure.

Anyway.

I bought Metro 2033 because it was on sale on Steam. It's ... uh, a pretty bad game.

Edit: I'm back to playing Crysis 2. My second playthrough. It's considerably more enjoyable than my first. And I actually like the story this time, as I wasn't expecting something actually related to the first game ( beyond the nanosuit and alien connection, there really isn't much tying the two games together ). Also ... the way I'm tearing these aliens apart ... I am a Post-Human Warrior!
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 06:43:45 PM by Hemingway »

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3804 on: August 30, 2011, 09:21:09 PM »
I bought Metro 2033 because it was on sale on Steam. It's ... uh, a pretty bad game.

*Just kills Hemingway and hides his body under the porch* >,>

Ten bucks says you were expecting Fallout.

Offline Wolfy

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3805 on: August 30, 2011, 10:06:56 PM »
Metro 2033 isn't that bad..or at least it wasn't when I played it on the console.

It was actually fairly good, really..nice and atmospheric.

Online Geeklet

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3806 on: August 30, 2011, 10:42:00 PM »
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
The endings ... well, I've seen two of them. As far as I can tell, they're all more or less downer endings, and I have no clue which one is supposed to be the canonical one leading up to DX. I'd assume Taggart's ending ... or the destruction of the facility ... not that I think it'd make much of a difference. I just got a feeling they exaggerate the effects it would actually have. Darrow's ending made no sense. Why would people cast aside technology because they find out it can be abused? I think that one completely misunderstands human nature.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Has to be the destruction, based on what happens/is said after the credits end.

Offline SabbyTopic starter

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3807 on: August 31, 2011, 01:09:15 AM »
Dang, I really liked that P.E.P.S. gun... until I tried to use it on someone wearing armor. It's next to useless. Hit the same guy twice, and the first one sent him flying down a set of stairs, and all it did was confuse him.

Friggen awesome for unarmoured enemies though.

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3808 on: August 31, 2011, 07:08:13 AM »
Yeah, a lot of the non-lethal or light lethal weapons are not armor unfriendly. I had to get a piercing upgrade for my 10mm pistol before I could take down medium-armored goons. For heavies nothing beat a takedown or a typhoon.

Offline Hemingway

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3809 on: August 31, 2011, 11:03:53 AM »
*Just kills Hemingway and hides his body under the porch* >,>

Ten bucks says you were expecting Fallout.

Fork over the dough.

I was expecting exactly what I got. The story is decent, the atmosphere is good. The setting is fantastic. It's just the gameplay that's terrible. It's just not a very good shooter. I can't quite explain, except that it's ... clunky. Maybe it's a bad port. And the enemy AI is terrible! A lot of the time they're not even shooting at you.

Offline SabbyTopic starter

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3810 on: August 31, 2011, 11:05:57 AM »
It made Far Cry look like Splinter Cell: Convinction as far as stealth segments go :/

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3811 on: August 31, 2011, 11:23:15 AM »
Fork over the dough.

I was expecting exactly what I got. The story is decent, the atmosphere is good. The setting is fantastic. It's just the gameplay that's terrible. It's just not a very good shooter. I can't quite explain, except that it's ... clunky. Maybe it's a bad port. And the enemy AI is terrible! A lot of the time they're not even shooting at you.
I guess I got the only game with the good A.I. I can remember getting hit by expertly thrown grenades and having to run... right into a unified wall of fire. The stealth was terrible. Still, nothing beat taking down a Librarian with a knife.

Offline Hemingway

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3812 on: August 31, 2011, 11:55:39 AM »
I guess I got the only game with the good A.I. I can remember getting hit by expertly thrown grenades and having to run... right into a unified wall of fire. The stealth was terrible. Still, nothing beat taking down a Librarian with a knife.

The game ( from what I've heard other people say ) is actually infamous for the bad AI. Enemies frequently run between cover, without bothering to actually shoot. You can just patiently wait and pick them off.

And, yes, the stealth ... to the extent that you can actually call it stealth, is just ... I mean, that's not their fault, exactly. I firmly believe that any game that tries to have stealth parts but isn't a stealth game, will fail. If there's not a fairly advanced system of stealth, you're just going to end up shooting your way through. Or if that's not an option ( i.e. getting caught means game over ), you just have to get lucky. Or it's way too easy.

Offline SabbyTopic starter

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3813 on: August 31, 2011, 11:59:03 AM »
It goes deeper then that, but I've mentioned this before, somewhere back in the 150+ pages of this thread... basically, it wasn't enough to slap in this atrocious stealth levels, they grade your performance without your knowledge. Killing gives you bad karma, which is what any sane person ends up doing after 10+ attempts. And were you told theres a karma rating that effects your ending? Nope.

Offline Hemingway

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3814 on: August 31, 2011, 12:26:33 PM »
I'm just gonna uninstall it and play Crysis 2.

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3815 on: August 31, 2011, 04:08:06 PM »
It goes deeper then that, but I've mentioned this before, somewhere back in the 150+ pages of this thread... basically, it wasn't enough to slap in this atrocious stealth levels, they grade your performance without your knowledge. Killing gives you bad karma, which is what any sane person ends up doing after 10+ attempts. And were you told theres a karma rating that effects your ending? Nope.
Well since they're using the "bad" (we fans just call it the unenlightened ending) ending for Metro: Last Light. Actually though you only get bad karma for killing in certain parts. Just killing one person does not detract from your ending total. In fact, it's entirely possible to get the good ending while killing people. You just can't kill everyone on the Frontline portion, which you're probably not going to do by accident. It takes conscious effort to kill everyone.

It's not so much that you get bad karma for killing, it's that you don't get the chance to get good karma for not killing anyone. Just killing people does not just give you bad karma though.

Offline Hemingway

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3816 on: August 31, 2011, 05:28:08 PM »
I'm thinking of starting a second DXHR playthrough. My dilemma is this:

I want to try to get the Pacifist achievement. I didn't kill that many guys my first time, so it shouldn't be too hard. Trust me, I know what I'm doing. I could probably get Foxiest of the Hounds, too.

However, that essentially rules out getting that one achievement that requires you to be fast and merciless in that one part of the game. The non-lethal weapons don't really lend themselves to disabling a dozen enemies and a robot.

I am torn. I lean toward the latter, as I already did a non-lethal playthrough ... tell me, does killing enemies change the ending monologue? Certain things said can be interpreted that way, but I'm not sure.

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3817 on: August 31, 2011, 06:50:07 PM »
I'm thinking of starting a second DXHR playthrough. My dilemma is this:

I want to try to get the Pacifist achievement. I didn't kill that many guys my first time, so it shouldn't be too hard. Trust me, I know what I'm doing. I could probably get Foxiest of the Hounds, too.

However, that essentially rules out getting that one achievement that requires you to be fast and merciless in that one part of the game. The non-lethal weapons don't really lend themselves to disabling a dozen enemies and a robot.

I am torn. I lean toward the latter, as I already did a non-lethal playthrough ... tell me, does killing enemies change the ending monologue? Certain things said can be interpreted that way, but I'm not sure.
What part do you speak of? I can probably suggest an alternate route. I've already done two thirds of the game peaceful.

Offline Hemingway

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3818 on: August 31, 2011, 06:55:32 PM »
What part do you speak of? I can probably suggest an alternate route. I've already done two thirds of the game peaceful.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
After being shot down over Heng Sha. Try doing that with one PEPS charge, one stun gun dart and a handful of tranquilizer darts. And not even an EMP grenade to deal with the bot.

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3819 on: August 31, 2011, 07:02:18 PM »
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
After being shot down over Heng Sha. Try doing that with one PEPS charge, one stun gun dart and a handful of tranquilizer darts. And not even an EMP grenade to deal with the bot.
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Sorry, Hemingway, you're going to have to leave her behind. There's no way you can do it. I could barely do it with a full arsenal of bad-assedness. The stealthy approach takes time and you have about thirty seconds. If you want to do the achievements you're going to have to sneak out. :(

That's why I made sure to do it at least once when I had the hyper-violent make and model.

Offline Hemingway

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3820 on: August 31, 2011, 07:12:42 PM »
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Sorry, Hemingway, you're going to have to leave her behind. There's no way you can do it. I could barely do it with a full arsenal of bad-assedness. The stealthy approach takes time and you have about thirty seconds. If you want to do the achievements you're going to have to sneak out. :(

That's why I made sure to do it at least once when I had the hyper-violent make and model.

My point exactly. I almost got it after a dozen tries, but I gave up on doing it the non-lethal way. If I'd started out with an arsenal full of weapons, I would've managed. So I have to decide which I want. But I think I'll go lethal this time.

Offline SabbyTopic starter

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3821 on: September 01, 2011, 12:58:59 AM »
Heh, this scene in Vampire always annoyed me xD "Ow! You shot me in the head! D=" "Get over it. We vampires laugh in the face of small caliber ballistic weapons =3" "True, but that was uncomfortable and annoying D= I'm quite peeved with you. I think I shall attack you now!" "Good thing I have this GUN! >=D" pow. "OH NO! MY STOMACH! THIS IS SO MUCH MORE FATAL AND MAKES NO SENSE!" "Indeed it does not!"

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3822 on: September 01, 2011, 06:31:25 AM »
Heh, this scene in Vampire always annoyed me xD "Ow! You shot me in the head! D=" "Get over it. We vampires laugh in the face of small caliber ballistic weapons =3" "True, but that was uncomfortable and annoying D= I'm quite peeved with you. I think I shall attack you now!" "Good thing I have this GUN! >=D" pow. "OH NO! MY STOMACH! THIS IS SO MUCH MORE FATAL AND MAKES NO SENSE!" "Indeed it does not!"
Uh, for a vampire... I dunno. Unless he somehow managed to be a mule for garlic I don't see how a stomach shot would be more fatal. They would definitely be more painful, infinitely more painful. Both would be fairly lethal to a human, and the latter might take days to kill a person. Sometimes even with today's medicine people don't make it.

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Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3823 on: September 01, 2011, 08:33:10 AM »
I know that I'm thinking too much about this, but - a vampire's digestive system is still functional (to allow it to make use of the blood it drinks).  So, there's got to be some acid production.  Acid is one of those things that's always put out there as a way of killing things that regenerate (right up there with fire), it could be that it's not the bullet that makes it fatal, but the stomach contents that leak out after the bullet hits.  The hole wouldn't regenerate the way the brain (theoretically) would, since the acid would interfere with that.

(Also - mule for garlic:  I have a fairly good idea of the 'how' on that, but the bit that would stump me is 'why'.)

Offline SabbyTopic starter

Re: What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]
« Reply #3824 on: September 01, 2011, 09:06:01 AM »
Eh, Bloodlines is about as accurate to the source material as you can realistically hope for. Small concessions are expected, like being able to kill a vampire with a gun, which I understand is near impossible in most cases... I just hated that that 'concession' contradicted so blatantly. The three Sabbat even brought it up xD

One gets shot in the head, growls, the three turn to see the shooter, and completely disregard the fact he's holding a gun. "What are ya guna do? SHOOT us?" they spoke like that had as much weight to it as being threatened by cotton balls, but backed right off when they saw he had a grenade.

The scene was fine. It established guns weren't effective, but Sabbat aren't invincible and won't throw down without favourable odds. But then, just to ruin the entire scene, one runs back, gets the gun jammed into his gut, shot once, flies through the air, lands on the road and immediately immolates into dust.