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Author Topic: North Korea threatens to commit suicide  (Read 5087 times)

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Offline Oniya

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Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2009, 03:47:34 PM »
Just in case anyone didn't know, I'mma offer a quick comparision of Chinese and American nuclear capabilities:

Number of Nukes China has (Newsweek source): Estimated 400
Number of Nukes America has (same source):  Estimated 9,500
Number of Nukes Russia has (at least whats accounted for, same source): Estimated 15,100

After a certain point, though, the number becomes less important than the willingness to use them - and the amount of key targets that they are aimed at.  I think I need to update my cover of 'So Long, Mom'.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2009, 03:48:45 PM »
.

That battle took place in the flat, featureless desert. Yeah, weather was bad, but the article said the tracking systems (night vision, etc.) played a big role in our smackdown of their forces. Fighting with NK armor, however, takes place in Korean terrain. Much different.


True enough the terrain will often greatly curtail the range. I don't know how well the South Koreans are armored, but ton for ton NK armor won't stand a chance against US armor. In a lot of cases one of Kim-Jong's tanks is going to put a close range round into an Abrams with the resulting 'oh shit' from the crew as they realize it didn't even penetrate.


I figure their tactics are going range widely in an attempt to give us a large casualty list and hurt our resolve to fight. Ambushes with point-blank shots are going to occur, both inside and outside cities. On the larger scale they’ll employ the Golden BB strategy that Saddam tried, figuring that if you shoot enough rounds you're likely to hit some soft spots.

Either way, the North will break on the spearhead of American ground armor...a head-on fight with us is something even the Russians and Chinese don't want to do.

Maybe Kim Jung Il, the internet expert he claims he is (wiki that), will just give it all up soon, and continue to sedate himself with Hennessey and american porn.

Actually, a romp through the mind of history's most noteworthy dictators can be an interesting thing. Not too long before we went into Iraq I read a compelling article about Saddam and his various quirks.

Of the several dozen palaces he had, every one of them had to have a meal prepared, just in case he appeared there. His favorites included seafood, but he was also a wine drinker, including some Western vintages. Being as Saddam kept a face to his nation and the Arab region as a dutiful son of Islam, this was something supposedly known to only to his very inner circle. He liked Western entertainment, including American movies and television.

It's not just that they might hate us...they often hate us for what we have. But an emerging China has proven that given the same resources, much of the world will do EXACTLY as we do. Anti-American sentiment is pot calling kettle black in many cases.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2009, 03:49:59 PM by The Overlord »

Offline Sabby

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2009, 12:47:34 PM »
Only read the title here, so... how exactly does an entire country commit suicide? *laughs* launch a nuke directly up?

Offline Oniya

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Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2009, 01:45:22 PM »
More like 'suicide by cop' - provoke those with the capability to fire in self-defense.

Offline Apple of Eris

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2009, 10:27:57 PM »
North Korea isn't in South East Asia, just throwing that out there :)

Oh and BTW, the United States domestically produces approx. 80% of the steel consumed domestically. The biggest concern is if we were unable to import certain ores due to a trade disruption, notably: pig iron, direct-reduced iron, manganese ore, iron ore, and blast furnace coke.

Offline Merlyn

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2009, 11:21:28 PM »
Hmm, I must have been mistaken about that part somehow.  My apologies to all about the misinformation on that part.  I'm not quite sure what exactly I had been told, but yes most us steel is domestic right now.

And also the US wouldn't nuke N.K. because we have too many allies in the area that it would harm merely by the radiation alone.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2009, 09:05:36 PM »
North Korea isn't in South East Asia, just throwing that out there :)



Where is it then?

If you roughly quarter Asia, it's not as far south as Laos, Vietnam, etc., but it's certainly not northeast Asia.

Maybe it's the East Far East...

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2009, 02:25:15 AM »
I think the threat from North Korea is overblown.

Kim Jong-il may be a megalomaniac, he's probably accurately described as an asshole, but he's a selfish asshole.  However all of this goes down, he wants to wake up tomorrow morning at 98.6 Fahrenheit, not a hundred thousand. 

His saber-rattling is less like that of some kind of truly dangerous Hitler or Stalin, and more like a spoiled brat of a child saying "hey, lookie at ME!  Me, me, ME!"  Like the child throwing a fit in the supermarket check-out line, he's going to throw only the degree of fit he knows he can get away with.  Jong-il knows the point at which Mommy and Daddy will toss all the candy out of the shopping cart, drag him out of the store, and whup his ass...and he's not going to take it to that extent.

Offline consortium11

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2009, 03:03:50 AM »
As I read the situation the main reason for North Korea's current aggresiveness is him simply trying to strengthen his youngest son's position... at the same time all these nuclear tests were taking place news leaked out that Kim had announced his youngest son as succesor.

Offline SleepyWei

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2009, 05:37:33 PM »
And what are the chances that N Korea's Communist regime can survive after he dies? I'm not sure about it but it seems that most regimes dies either quickly after the first dictator dies or fades away slowly in the case of Stalin's Soviet Union.

In this case, after N Korea's dictator dies and his son takes over, is there a better chance that N Korea becomes more democratic?

Offline Apple of Eris

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2009, 06:02:05 PM »
South East Asia:

Southeast Asia or Southeastern Asia is a subregion of Asia, consisting of the countries that are geographically south of China, east of India and north of Australia. The region lies on the intersection of geological plates, with heavy seismic and volcanic activity.

Southeast Asia consists of two geographic regions: the Asian mainland, and island arcs and archipelagoes to the east and southeast. The mainland section consists of Burma (Myanmar), Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Vietnam and Malaysia (or to be more precise, Peninsular Malaysia). The maritime section consists of Brunei, East Timor,[1] Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Singapore. Some definitions include Taiwan at the north. Austronesian peoples predominate in this region. The major religions are Buddhism and Islam, followed by Christianity. However a wide variety of religions are found throughout the region, including many Hindu and animist-influenced practices.


That's just cut n pasted from wikipedia cuz i'm lazy.

North Korea:
North Korea, officially the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) (Hangul: 조선민주주의인민공화국, Chosŏn Minjujuŭi Inmin Konghwaguk), is a state in East Asia, occupying the northern half of the Korean Peninsula. Its capital and largest city is Pyongyang. The Korean Demilitarized Zone serves as the buffer area between North Korea and South Korea. The Amnok River is the border between North Korea and China. The Tumen River in the extreme north-east is the border with Russia.

East Asia:
East Asia is a subregion of Asia that can be defined in either geographical[3] or cultural[4] terms. Geographically and geopolitically, it covers about 12,000,000 km˛, or about 28 percent of the Asian continent, about 15 percent bigger than the area of Europe, though some categorize Tibet, Xinjiang, and Mongolia as Central Asia. In some contexts, Vietnam is considered part of East Asia because of the significant Chinese cultural influence it has experienced. More than 1.5 billion people, about 38 percent of the population of Asia or 22 percent of all the people in the world, live in geographic East Asia, which is about twice the population of Europe. The region is one of the world's most populated places, with the population density of East Asia, 131 per km˛, being about three times the world average of 45 per km˛.[5] Using the UN subregion definitions, it ranks second in population only to South Asia.

Again all from Wiki cuz its all basically the same info as britannica or encarta and I don't feel like copying from multiple sources.

HTH!



Offline consortium11

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2009, 11:27:43 PM »
And what are the chances that N Korea's Communist regime can survive after he dies? I'm not sure about it but it seems that most regimes dies either quickly after the first dictator dies or fades away slowly in the case of Stalin's Soviet Union.

In this case, after N Korea's dictator dies and his son takes over, is there a better chance that N Korea becomes more democratic?

I'm honestly not sure. North Korea is remarkably closed off to the world if compared to the like of Cuba... and when Kim Il-sung died Kim Jong-il took over with little talk of an opening up to the world. Burma has seen a succession of military leaders who are de-facto heads of state with little change as each one takes power.

Offline SleepyWei

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2009, 05:47:48 PM »
I'm honestly not sure. North Korea is remarkably closed off to the world if compared to the like of Cuba... and when Kim Il-sung died Kim Jong-il took over with little talk of an opening up to the world. Burma has seen a succession of military leaders who are de-facto heads of state with little change as each one takes power.

Hmmm... perhaps each leader that managed to successively retain the dictator regimes did so by instilling new fear into the populace or were very persuasive in making the country better... or a mixture of both.

Well, we can only hope that N Korea's new dictator will be weak mentally especially if Kim has to use nukes ans such to boost his son's image.

Offline consortium11

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2009, 09:18:18 PM »
Hmmm... perhaps each leader that managed to successively retain the dictator regimes did so by instilling new fear into the populace or were very persuasive in making the country better... or a mixture of both.

Well, we can only hope that N Korea's new dictator will be weak mentally especially if Kim has to use nukes ans such to boost his son's image.

It's also situations where the military has control and the actual leader is more of a figurehead. In Burma for example it's the Junta that's in control at any given moment so whoever is the actual leader is less important. I'm no expert on the internal politics of North Korea but considering how simple the last change at the top was I'd imagine that if the military establishment respect Kim's chosen succesor little will change.

Offline SleepyWei

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2009, 10:12:58 PM »
True, very true. Thanks for the clear up on that. I completely forgot about the possibility of puppet figures.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2009, 02:33:51 AM »

Well, we can only hope that N Korea's new dictator will be weak mentally especially if Kim has to use nukes ans such to boost his son's image.

If Kim does resort to nukes, he and his son will be reduced to mere clicks on a Geiger counter over the Sea of Japan, and he knows it.  So, again, I think the threat is overblown.  Kim's bark is much worse than his bite, in terms of taking on big nations for keepsies.

Offline Zakharra

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2009, 10:29:00 AM »
If Kim does resort to nukes, he and his son will be reduced to mere clicks on a Geiger counter over the Sea of Japan, and he knows it.  So, again, I think the threat is overblown.  Kim's bark is much worse than his bite, in terms of taking on big nations for keepsies.

 He might put himself in a situation he cannot back down from. He's the one escalating things, not us or anyone else.  Kim's bark might be worse than his bite, but he does have a nasty bite and if he thinks he can threaten with nukes and get away with it, he'd likely do it.

Offline Lithos

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2009, 12:22:27 PM »
Also the sheer level propaganda and psychological programming of people there is pretty unbelievable. Students from around here who actually got a permit to visit there managed to keep cameras hush hush and made a documentary of it.

theme park 1984

Is the name of it, but i do not know if it is available outside Finland, it is spoken in english (even if with accent) so don't see why it would not be. Is pretty unique in that it is in its entirety filmed there and it is recent material too. It is free download here, so not sure why it is not worldwide.

http://www.infinitehumanstupidity.com/Themepark_1984/

Clicking the pic on that one starts the download, but it is restricted to finnish IP addresses only for some reasons :(

If you can use a proxy server that is located here, then it should work. If not, it does float around torrent places for those who can search for it.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 12:27:02 PM by Lithos »

Offline SleepyWei

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2009, 02:15:53 PM »
Well I'm not very surprised that the populace is so easily controlled. Because N Korean stays hardline Communism, there is practically no real income for those people and therefore, they need something to follow, to lead and control them. The people themselves choose to believe in the lies and such because it's safer for them that way.

It's kind of like in Cuba where the population that makes way less than even a person on welfare find an escape through things like their big soccer games.

Offline Oniya

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Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2009, 02:43:23 PM »
Bread and circuses for modern times?

Offline Lithos

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2009, 02:54:05 PM »
Any talk of choice is not appropreriate here. People have nothing else to believe. They do not have TV networks that show actual news, no newspapers that show actual news, no internet. Six day workday and hours of mandatory participation to propaganda performances and training on shooting ranges after work. There is no choice in between thing X and Y there. Oh, and even if there was good free TV network, people still could not watch it cause 90% of apartment buildings are without electricity or central heating. TV and radio need power :P

Also, despite how poor the people are, they are not really unhappy cause they have no idea of better for the most part. Also, north Korea does not represent Communism but Juche that is much different from communism on some important parts. That makes things problematic in relation to other communist countries, since they do not really agree with their political system or lack of either. USSR back in its days and China now supply them with pretty much bare minimum of what they need to survive. 

Offline Phaia

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #46 on: June 07, 2009, 08:40:08 PM »
the real problem is not the armys but a belief and knowledge of how nuclear weaposn work. We here in the US KNOW no one would survive a nuclear war. That belief is not witha  greta many. Take India and pakastan. Miltary and political members on both sides believe they can survive a nuclear war. It took very hard core experts from the US to begin to make them see that they could not.

I would bet the same applies to North Korea, they BELIEVE they would survive and there fore have no fear about using nuclear weapons or chemical weapons for that matter.. After all the sciencists making those weapons are all north korean and would never say..."Hey we cant surviev using this...instead they say...This one bomb can kill more then 25 divisions...

As a roleplayer I have had to at times look at things froma view I knew was wrong but the character could and did except.

What scares me in this is how many in the world believe nuclear war can be survived!!!

Phaia

Offline Zakharra

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2009, 12:19:04 AM »
 Limited nuclear war can be survived. Which is what Pakistan and India would have. N. Korea probably thinks the US would be too chickenshit to respond with nuclear weapons. N. Korea has no problem using them, it's what they think our response would be that will decide wether they use them or not.

Offline Kurzyk

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2009, 10:44:56 AM »
The recent news about the journalists being sentenced to 12 years in a labor camp is outrageous. The reports claim that they had stepped into North Korea territory, but the details of their arrest remain unclear.

So far much of the saber rattling has been over the missile tests. What do you guys think this new development will add to the situation?

There is some discussion about whether an envoy should be sent to negotiate. I think this is just a tactic to give north korea a bargaining chip. Is negotiation the best approach here?

Offline Zakharra

Re: North Korea threatens to commit suicide
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2009, 10:56:57 AM »
 It's a bargining chip for N. Korea, to get more consessions from us at the least, or to show others that they can stand up against us.