Black Crusade

[HairyHeretic]

We were the monsters you wanted, the weapons you shaped us to be. We sacrificed all to be what you needed, and you dare .. you DARE .. censure us for doing that, for doing just what it was you wanted? We brought scores of worlds to compliance, and for every one we visited, for every one where they learned to fear the night, five, ten, twenty would surrender for fear they would be next.

We are the ones betrayed. That bitch assassin was allowed .. allowed, not able .. to take our father. To prove the truth of his words. Well, listen to the truth of my words. I will burn one world in the name of each of my brothers, and when the ashes of those worlds burn cold, my fathers words will be all that remains.

Death is nothing, compared to vindication.

It's been a while, but I'm in the mood for some 40k mayhem. I'd like to find a GM up for running a semi sandbox style Black Crusade game where I can bring in my Night Lord character, Draugr. Presuming this would be a group game, my idea would be the GM would offer up plot hooks, the group decides which we want to pursue, or even drive our own choices to build a powerbase and enact vengeance on the deluded lackeys of the Carrion God.

Anyone game?

[Tydorei]

I can't gm worth a damn. But I'd love to play in a black crusade game. Literally my favorite setting and the rules are pretty good.

[Krayz]

I'd definitely be interested! I don't have a lot of experience as a GM, and I've never run the 40K tabletops before, so I'd prefer to join as a player. But I'm willing to consider being the GM if no one else is game!

[HairyHeretic]

What would you both be thinking of in terms of characters?

[pilgrimofpain]

I've wanted to do black crusade for literal years, although more as a player than a DM

[Krayz]

What would you both be thinking of in terms of characters?

I'd need to take a closer look at the options available, but I'd probably be looking to play something like a sorcerer if possible, a follower of Tzeentch.

[Dakkon]

Gahhhhh, I wish I had the spoons. If inspiration and capacity strike, I will let you know.

[HairyHeretic]

Looks like you definitely have a group interested if you do feel you can take it on.

[Krayz]

Just to reiterate, I am willing to take up the task of GMing if people are OK with me being inexperienced with the system!

If that's not a turn-off, go ahead and post what kinds of characters you'd be interested in playing, and I can come up with an appropriate storyline. I've got a few possible ideas at the moment:

A) Infiltrating a Hive World to establish a Chaos Cult, possibly even overthrowing the Imperium government eventually.

B) Fighting as part of an invasion force against the Imperial Guard.

C) Trying to track down some kind of relic, artifact, etc.

D) Space Pirates!

Leaning towards using the existing setting materials provided for the various games to help get things going faster,  but open to creating a custom Sector if people who've played before want something new 

[HairyHeretic]

I'm interested in playing a Night Lord, either a Forsaken or Chosen.

As a suggestion, if we go with a starting point of the end of the intro scenario, Broken Chains, we'd be starting with a rather run down Iconoclast destroyer, and maybe enough feral humans to operate the basic ship functions (assuming we have a couple of characters with tech abilities for guidance). 

From there, my preference would be to find some local pirates and take them over. This would give us more actual trained crew, and maybe even a base of operations. From there, we have more options. Hitting imperial targets, tracking down relics, maybe building alliances, and so on.

Build ourselves a proper warband / fleet over time and see where it goes from there. I imagine each of the PCs would have their own goals they'd like to accomplish.

[Krayz]

I'm interested in playing a Night Lord, either a Forsaken or Chosen.

As a suggestion, if we go with a starting point of the end of the intro scenario, Broken Chains, we'd be starting with a rather run down Iconoclast destroyer, and maybe enough feral humans to operate the basic ship functions (assuming we have a couple of characters with tech abilities for guidance).

From there, my preference would be to find some local pirates and take them over. This would give us more actual trained crew, and maybe even a base of operations. From there, we have more options. Hitting imperial targets, tracking down relics, maybe building alliances, and so on.

Build ourselves a proper warband / fleet over time and see where it goes from there. I imagine each of the PCs would have their own goals they'd like to accomplish.

I'll take a closer look at the scenario, thanks for the recommendation!

It would probably be one of the more flexible options that would provide opportunities for different kinds of characters to shine and pursue their own agendas, as long as everyone is willing to collaborate.

And if there are certain important niches that aren't filled by the PCs, I'm sure I can come up with some support characters to fill necessary roles. The Dark Gods provide 

[HairyHeretic]

As long as we don't have diametrically opposed alignment characters then I think we can work together okay. For myself, playing a Night Lord, he's unaligned, and willing to work with anyone who will help accomplish his goals.

[Krayz]

I'm pretty sure we can even make followers of opposed Chaos Gods work, as long as they can keep their agendas from directly clashing with each other. And having someone who is unaligned or aligned with a "neutral" God as an intermediary would definitely help. So your Night Lord would probably be useful in that regard.

[HairyHeretic]

Most characters ought to be able to find common cause in working together. 

[Tydorei]

We, as players, should be able to make the party dynamics work for the most part with many of the chaos types if no one tries to provoke anything. If someone is playing a khorne berserker, obviously don't cast a physic buff on him. Obviously don't mock their combat prowess, even in jest.

[HairyHeretic]

I think the biggest issue with playing an 'evil' game is some players seem to think its almost expected to screw over the others because "I'm evil". Sure, there's plenty of in fiction examples of such behaviour, but it doesn't work so well when you're aiming for a game of decent length and enjoyment :)

[Krayz]

Do we now have at least two players interested in proceeding?

If so, would people like to wait and see if we can hook at least one more, or do we want to get started and see if others want to join down the line?

@Tydorei if you are willing, do you have a character in mind? 

[HairyHeretic]

I'd say we have two or three at this point. That sounds enough to get started with. We could always put up a thread in the players wanted board to see if we can get more.

[Tydorei]

Do we now have at least two players interested in proceeding?

If so, would people like to wait and see if we can hook at least one more, or do we want to get started and see if others want to join down the line?

@Tydorei if you are willing, do you have a character in mind? 

Yeah. I have a few characters in mind actually. Lol. But I don't know if we will start with the points that allow for the class I want.

The front runner is a pirate prince. Human femboy aligned with slaanesh obviously... But any character I make in an elliquiy game will be slaanesh or tzeentch aligned

As for other people, a few other mentioned they would like to play.

[HairyHeretic]

I know I can't do a Night Lord from the Book of Blood with a basic starting character, but I'm pretty sure I can flavour a Chosen or Forsaken to work, particularly if I can swap a couple of their starting talents for the Night Lord specific ones. I'd imagine we ought to be able to make most characters work with a bit of tweaking.

[pilgrimofpain]

I would really be interested in playing. I would probably like to play an heir to a planetary governorship on some dirthole planet that found the endless and dull service to the imperium so mindlessly dull that their first encounter with a chaos cult was the first time they felt alive.

Probably a mortal as either an apostate or a psyker.


P. S. I would probably recommend not including too many of the extra books for a first time GM as they are not all that well balanced all in all.

[Krayz]

How interested are people in having the Advanced Archetypes available for Character Creation?

On the one hand, I'd like to give people access to the options that they want to explore. But I also don't want to undermine the experience for everyone by incorporating more material than I can get a handle on reasonably soon. 

I also feel like certain aspects of the Advanced Archetypes might not mesh well with the suggestion that HairyHeretic made about using the "Broken Chains" scenario, at least if we planned on picking things up right where it ends rather than having it as more of a distant backstory. It leaves us with a bit less room for a climb-from-the-bottom arc, if that's the sort of thing people want.

In any case, I should also mention that I figured everyone can use the Point Buy system from the Core Rulebook for generating Characteristics. It makes things more consistent, and characters made that way are supposed to be a little bit stronger on average, which seems appropriate for such an ambitious story.

[pilgrimofpain]

point-buy stats make perfect sense either way, avoiding the advanced archetypes is smart if you intend to run an intro scenario like broken chains.

[Tydorei]

If we are considering broken chains, is there a reason not to run it? Just curious, as I don't know how plays out or ends.

As for advanced players or not, I'm fine with either. I'll just have to use a second character choice if we being basic. A tech priest.

[Krayz]

If we are considering broken chains, is there a reason not to run it? Just curious, as I don't know how plays out or ends.

As for advanced players or not, I'm fine with either. I'll just have to use a second character choice if we being basic. A tech priest.

In "Broken Chains," all of the characters were captured by an Inquisitor and put into stasis, only to awaken a couple centuries later to find that the ship suffered a prison break which led to it becoming lost in the Warp. The ship is now populated by the feral descendants of the former crew and prisoners, while a small group of Inquisitorial Acolytes who also went into stasis have awakened as well. The group needs to take control of the ship before the Acolytes call in Imperial reinforcements, and then find their way to a nearby Chaos-aligned spaceport.

Exactly how much it interferes probably depends on the Advanced Archetype in question; I haven't gotten around to looking at all of them yet. But the Pirate Prince, for example, is supposed to start with their own voidship. If your character has disappeared for around 200 years, it's hard to imagine that they'd have a ship and crew just standing by for them.

The "Broken Chains" scenario was suggested to provide a justification for giving the Heretics the bare essentials needed to start their own pirate adventure: an old ship in need of some repairs, and the beginnings of a crew for it. It wouldn't really be fair to let it all become the personal possession of one character in the group when it was intended as a communal resource. So it kind of depends on how much the idea of having your own ship and crew right from the start was what appealed to you about playing a Pirate Prince.

Whether or not other Advanced Archetypes will work is probably going to depend on whether or not they're supposed to have access to similar large-scale resources. It's probably not an insurmountable problem, but it could add complications. But, conversely, if no one else really cares about "owning" the (first) ship, then having a Pirate Prince in the group would effectively serve the same role as using "Broken Chains" as background; giving the Heretics the beginnings of a pirate fleet to use for their adventures.

 (I'm pretty sure "Broken Chains" is only intended as backstory here, but let me know if folks are actually interested in playing through it, assuming we go with that option.)
 
Ultimately, my primary concern is whether or not everyone has fun. I can mostly see two potential problems from including the expansion material from the Tomes, including Advanced Archetypes:

1) Players becoming upset because unbalanced options end up leaving them feeling overshadowed or redundant. I'm less concerned with characters directly threatening each other because everyone seems to understand that this is meant to be a cooperative game rather than a backstab-fest, and I am quite willing to drop the wrath of the Dark Gods on anyone who fucks with that understanding. But if one or two players ends up being able to dominate every situation the group finds themselves in because they knew how to build an overpowered character, that's probably won't be very enjoyable for other folks.

2) Me not being able to provide a satisfactory GM experience due to my limited familiarity with the system. Most likely the problem there would be me not being able to adequately remember all of the extra rules in play by including options from multiple rulebooks, and failing to create suitably challenging encounters as a result. No matter what, I think there'll probably be a little while where things start off kind of easy, as I get a feel for the system and try to avoid going overkill via ignorance, but that learning curve could be much higher if there's a bunch of extra abilities that I have to consider.

With all that said, I am open to starting with more powerful characters, whether through Advanced Archetypes or basic Archetypes boosted with experience and such to be a match for them. It's just a question of how patient everyone is willing to be with me while I figure things out!