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Author Topic: Would You Kindly?  (Read 2864 times)

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Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Would You Kindly?
« on: April 23, 2009, 04:34:47 PM »
Anyone one of you who has played the video game Bioshock to near its end will be intimately, possibly chilled, by that simple turn of phrase. However, I would like to make it a little more real.

I take a look at the Blackberry addicts, the two girls talking two feet away on their cellphones, and the people who text like it's an addiction to smack. It's enough to make me cry. How under the thumb the people who design those phones, jingles, and whatnot have the general public.

They're literally giving up their freewill to these things. To provide an example: When was the last time you doubted what came out of your calculator, or the words in your previous text message. I'm not trying to sound like a conspiracy theorist, because I'm not.

The truth is it's simple marketing and they're easily turning the world into money-making lemmings, and they'd rather twiddle their thumbs and waste away in front of Facebook then question why they're doing it. So I ask you, would you kindly? 

Offline The Overlord

Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2009, 05:21:39 PM »

I suppose it's all about how you look at it.


I think the Blackberry is just the digital age version of the Slinky; the latter got millions of kids throwing a coiled spring down their parents' stairwells and no one really questioned why they're doing it.

Technically all religions and political movements are exactly the same; they have millions, even billions of customers around the world, donating money and effort on their behalf. All for a product they're selling. Christianity and Islam are just a big Slinky for the god-fearing masses; the true danger lies in the fact that almost none of them realize it.

Unless the software in your calculator is acting up, there's no practical reason to doubt the sums coming out of it, unless you want to start entertaining theories that would have some people questioning your sanity.

And regarding the content of the previous text message, well, I don't text, but then again I doubt the text and type and print I see everywhere. I'm not a conspiracy goon either, I just never automatically believe what I read, no matter what media form it's flying at me through.


As far kids 'wasting away' in front of Facebook, perhaps we can say we're all wasting away here on E. Perhaps I'm wasting away in persistent universe settings as an MMO player.


Then again, tons and tons of people waste away at work, so they can go in and do shit and get a little piece of paper on Friday, but of course that's 'progress'.


We're fracking hairy primates that figured out how to manipulate nature on the quantum scale, and we're still a work a progress. What exactly should we be doing?


Again, I think that's largely a matter of perspective.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2009, 05:31:12 PM »
Well if we stop doing the math ourselves and let the calculator do it every time all the time. Then we stop thinking about the work and one smart-ass calculator says 2+2 equals five.

I don't know about you but I'd rather believe in a god that is a little less susceptible to defenestration.

E, and MMO you're just arguing semantics really. It was merely an example I used and it applies to them all. The point is: Is it prattle or actual communication. Something I see a lack of in this global era.

The point I make is the tech is making us more vulnerable, the pure saturation of all of it is something us hairy, backbrained monkeys aren't used to. 

Offline The Overlord

Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2009, 06:30:18 PM »

I've expressed my desire to largely stay out of this forum, but this one seems more an off-topic or vent IMHO. I brought religion and politics up only as an analogy; actually we have many, many Blackberries out there in society, some are just more subtle than others.

Who actually draws the line between prattle and actual communication; how much purpose must communication serve before it's considered to serve a purpose? Seems mighty debatable in my book, but yeah some stuff does seem to get into asinine territory:

The jagoff walking ahead of me in the store and strolling like he's got time clear to Sunday because he's paying more attention to his cell phone than his actual surroundings.

"Yeah, I just walked into the store..."

Well, no shit. Tell me more.


The 12 year girl on her Blackberry in study hall.


'OMG...Billy is so hawt.'




At the end of the day, technology is a tool to achieve an end; even if we personally see that end as pointless or wasted effort, it's still just a tool.

What I believe is crucial is that we must remain masters of our technology, lest it become the master of us. I understand exactly what you're referring with the calculator issue; We needn't worry about Hulu reducing our brains to tapioca pudding when we have plenty of other distractions to make us soft.

I for one always mentally tally the change due whenever I make a purchase, be it groceries or whatever, so I know what I'm getting before it lands in my hand, and I can question it if the value is incorrect.

The most common effect I see of this is when I give change before getting it back, as I dislike odd amounts and might round up to the nearest dime or quarter.

The result is often the mental equivalent of watching that old 40-watt lightbulb spark dimly to life in a yellowed housing in your grandmotherís attic that's easily as old as her. People that run a machine all day that pumps values into their heads often have issues when required to perform actual math, even basic mathematics.



It'd be even funnier if it weren't sad.
 
 


Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2009, 06:43:28 PM »
I've expressed my desire to largely stay out of this forum, but this one seems more an off-topic or vent IMHO. I brought religion and politics up only as an analogy; actually we have many, many Blackberries out there in society, some are just more subtle than others.

Who actually draws the line between prattle and actual communication; how much purpose must communication serve before it's considered to serve a purpose? Seems mighty debatable in my book, but yeah some stuff does seem to get into asinine territory:

The jagoff walking ahead of me in the store and strolling like he's got time clear to Sunday because he's paying more attention to his cell phone than his actual surroundings.

"Yeah, I just walked into the store..."

Well, no shit. Tell me more.


The 12 year girl on her Blackberry in study hall.


'OMG...Billy is so hawt.'




At the end of the day, technology is a tool to achieve an end; even if we personally see that end as pointless or wasted effort, it's still just a tool.

What I believe is crucial is that we must remain masters of our technology, lest it become the master of us. I understand exactly what you're referring with the calculator issue; We needn't worry about Hulu reducing our brains to tapioca pudding when we have plenty of other distractions to make us soft.

I for one always mentally tally the change due whenever I make a purchase, be it groceries or whatever, so I know what I'm getting before it lands in my hand, and I can question it if the value is incorrect.

The most common effect I see of this is when I give change before getting it back, as I dislike odd amounts and might round up to the nearest dime or quarter.

The result is often the mental equivalent of watching that old 40-watt lightbulb spark dimly to life in a yellowed housing in your grandmotherís attic that's easily as old as her. People that run a machine all day that pumps values into their heads often have issues when required to perform actual math, even basic mathematics.



It'd be even funnier if it weren't sad.
The problem is people aren't using the tech, the tech is using the people, even if it's due to whomever wants to make the tech addictive. Ask a kid to shoot up drugs maybe they will more than likely say hell no. Maybe they do. Take away the kids facebook (Or whatever) and all hell breaks loose. Now of course, there are people above it. It's a social addiction. It's existed forever, but like I said the saturation is higher.


Offline The Overlord

Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2009, 09:46:48 PM »
The problem is people aren't using the tech, the tech is using the people, even if it's due to whomever wants to make the tech addictive. Ask a kid to shoot up drugs maybe they will more than likely say hell no. Maybe they do. Take away the kids facebook (Or whatever) and all hell breaks loose. Now of course, there are people above it. It's a social addiction. It's existed forever, but like I said the saturation is higher.

Agreed.

Offline Nessy

Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2009, 10:28:08 PM »
The internet is the old-timers TV and before that, the telephone. Every generation complains about the values of the generation's values coming up behind them, and especially technology that at first seems frivilous. I would rather go without TV than I would the internet and soon, I might choose to do that anyway. Ask the baby-boomers what it would be like TV and many tell me not a chance, ask their parents, they can't believe how important TV is to their children. It's just a cycle. A few decades from now, there will be another one.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2009, 10:48:31 PM »
The internet is the old-timers TV and before that, the telephone. Every generation complains about the values of the generation's values coming up behind them, and especially technology that at first seems frivilous. I would rather go without TV than I would the internet and soon, I might choose to do that anyway. Ask the baby-boomers what it would be like TV and many tell me not a chance, ask their parents, they can't believe how important TV is to their children. It's just a cycle. A few decades from now, there will be another one.
Yes but that's always the elder generation telling the younger generation. I'm in this generation and I think we're turning into some kind of vegetable because we'd rather use the calculator application in our iphones (Which my cell is barely a cell) to add five and three. Hell I will sit their and practice cursive penmanship because I believe in mailing a letter every once and a while. Though Word is great.

Offline Nessy

Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2009, 11:19:34 PM »
Well what is this generation to you. Technology has changed a lot recently. My younger sister is ten years younger than me and she is into the cell phones, myspace, texting, the whole package. I grew up with computers and internet and am not into those things at all, but I am very familiar with them. Technically, we are the same generation but there is a huge difference between how we use technology. I RP, Game... it's her social structure. I am not going to shame or blame her for that.

I just don't see the need to criticize people who choose to make something more important in their lives than I do. So what if some kid down the street pulls out a calculator for an equation he could care less about but can write me a java program for fun in ten minutes. It's what you value, and you value spending more time on basic math than usuing a calculator, and more on penmanship when a lot of people don't even send letters anymore. Who are we to tell other people what they should value?

And forget word, Excel. Spreadsheets... I can't even imagine doing financial analysis without pivot tables, vertical looks ups, all that stuffon hand. Why should I? I am not that old, and the tech is available.

Offline Serephino

Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2009, 11:28:28 PM »
To me, blackberries and i phones are the biggest waist of money...  I have a cell phone.  I make calls with it, which is what a phone is for....

I had a friend who had a 2 gig mp3 player, wanted an i pod, and a chocolate v cast phone so she could play music on her phone.  WTF....  I have an mp3 player, a pink one cuz it was a few dollars cheaper.  That's all I need.  I refuse to buy an i pod because they are flimsy over priced over hyped pieces of crap.  You can get the same bloody thing a hell of a lot cheaper. 

I avoid face book and myspace like the plague.  The only thing I'm guilty of is coming on here a few hours a night, but at least when I'm responding to a thread I'm using my mind.

And another thing... everything is electronic.  When you deposit your paycheck in the bank the number gets added in the bank's computer database and subtracted from your employer's account.  Your money is nothing but a number stored in a computer.  Sometimes numbers go missing with no explanation.  Am I the only one bothered by that?

I am internet and TV dependent, but mostly because of RP and my fanfic writing.  My stories are posted online so I need internet access to post the chapters.  I also play WoW, but that's entertainment, and I've never really got into any other game. 

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2009, 11:36:42 PM »
Well what is this generation to you. Technology has changed a lot recently. My younger sister is ten years younger than me and she is into the cell phones, myspace, texting, the whole package. I grew up with computers and internet and am not into those things at all, but I am very familiar with them. Technically, we are the same generation but there is a huge difference between how we use technology. I RP, Game... it's her social structure. I am not going to shame or blame her for that.

I just don't see the need to criticize people who choose to make something more important in their lives than I do. So what if some kid down the street pulls out a calculator for an equation he could care less about but can write me a java program for fun in ten minutes. It's what you value, and you value spending more time on basic math than usuing a calculator, and more on penmanship when a lot of people don't even send letters anymore. Who are we to tell other people what they should value?

And forget word, Excel. Spreadsheets... I can't even imagine doing financial analysis without pivot tables, vertical looks ups, all that stuffon hand. Why should I? I am not that old, and the tech is available.
I believe you're missing the point. There is a difference between using technology, and falling victim to it. I have seen so man of my peers and younger can't go ten minutes without texting, or when someone wastes away playing W.O.W. or facebook, or whatnot. The people who drop out of college because they'd rather be doing the former without any sense of responsibility, hearing the taping of the phone buttons as they text during class.

I'm not saying that everyone does it, I'm saying that a surprising amount of people are really getting sucked in, and it really is a subtle thing, like a simple turn of phrase.

Offline Nessy

Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2009, 11:48:14 PM »
I believe you're missing the point. There is a difference between using technology, and falling victim to it. I have seen so man of my peers and younger can't go ten minutes without texting, or when someone wastes away playing W.O.W. or facebook, or whatnot. The people who drop out of college because they'd rather be doing the former without any sense of responsibility, hearing the taping of the phone buttons as they text during class.

I'm not saying that everyone does it, I'm saying that a surprising amount of people are really getting sucked in, and it really is a subtle thing, like a simple turn of phrase.

My sister like texting. I like gaming and rping. I am sure she could call what I do a waste of time, but she has more respect for me than that, and I have more respect for her than that as well. I think its a waste of time to watch football for hours on end, but it would be a waste of my time, not a sports fan.

As for responsibility, if you are in class, then you could be fairly young (assuming you are not a non-traditional student), in which case what you have a problem with is not technology but immaturity. Maturity comes with age and experience, for some sooner than others. If it isn't WOW, it would be something else. It's WOW, yesterday it was Everquest, before thenit was Playstation (what they call PSone now), before that SNES, NES, Giga Pets... its always something. They're just growing up at a different rate than you are. Let them.

edit, and sometimes its not technology, its hours playing Magic or Pokemon Cards or a dozen other things young people get into.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 11:50:31 PM by Nessy »

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2009, 08:31:31 AM »
My sister like texting. I like gaming and rping. I am sure she could call what I do a waste of time, but she has more respect for me than that, and I have more respect for her than that as well. I think its a waste of time to watch football for hours on end, but it would be a waste of my time, not a sports fan.

As for responsibility, if you are in class, then you could be fairly young (assuming you are not a non-traditional student), in which case what you have a problem with is not technology but immaturity. Maturity comes with age and experience, for some sooner than others. If it isn't WOW, it would be something else. It's WOW, yesterday it was Everquest, before thenit was Playstation (what they call PSone now), before that SNES, NES, Giga Pets... its always something. They're just growing up at a different rate than you are. Let them.

edit, and sometimes its not technology, its hours playing Magic or Pokemon Cards or a dozen other things young people get into.
I role play, I game, I do it a little more than I should but I function. These people are either barely functioning or don't care enough to, and yes it's true. They're like addicts, giving a whole new meaning to the term user.

Offline Nessy

Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2009, 01:51:43 PM »
I role play, I game, I do it a little more than I should but I function. These people are either barely functioning or don't care enough to, and yes it's true. They're like addicts, giving a whole new meaning to the term user.

I understand what you are saying, but what I am saying is you are thinking its the age of too much technology, I am saying its the age of the users. It could have easily been something else but this day and age, the most popular things going on deals with technology. In high school, college, do you really think that years ago when blackberries didn't exist yet the same type of individuals didn't find something else to waste their time on and gradually fall through the cracks? 

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2009, 02:03:10 PM »
I understand what you are saying, but what I am saying is you are thinking its the age of too much technology, I am saying its the age of the users. It could have easily been something else but this day and age, the most popular things going on deals with technology. In high school, college, do you really think that years ago when blackberries didn't exist yet the same type of individuals didn't find something else to waste their time on and gradually fall through the cracks?
I'm saying that tech is causing an over-saturation thereof. It was a lot harder. With tech came convenience. Used to you had to go out to the movies or go into town. Now people sit in their houses all the time. Now it's easier for greedy individuals to take advantage of the addicted masses.

Offline The Overlord

Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2009, 02:08:11 PM »
Now people sit in their houses all the time.


That can be good and bad.


Good on the fact that if more people are staying home for their entertainment, they're saving gas and putting less crap into the atmosphere.


Bad on the idea that if their pursuits are too addictive they won't get outside and smell the green grass and the cool air. We still need that, and we're fooling ourselves if we think we don't.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2009, 02:19:01 PM »

That can be good and bad.


Good on the fact that if more people are staying home for their entertainment, they're saving gas and putting less crap into the atmosphere.


Bad on the idea that if their pursuits are too addictive they won't get outside and smell the green grass and the cool air. We still need that, and we're fooling ourselves if we think we don't.
I mean they don't have to leave the house to rot away anymore is all. You don't have to sit home to help the environment.

Offline Nessy

Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2009, 02:38:15 PM »
I mean they don't have to leave the house to rot away anymore is all. You don't have to sit home to help the environment.

Again, what makes you think that? Have you lived the lives of the past and the present and the future? What makes you think that people weren't just smoking dope and spending 10 hours a day in their parents basement playing Dungeons and Dragons? I mean really, where are you getting your information? Radios certainly don't require you go to out doors and you could easily spend hours after hours on your 80s lip phone talking with your girlsfriends and never leaving your room. Television, it's been in the living room for a long time, don't have to leave the house for that either. This generation is not as unique as you seem to think it is.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2009, 02:48:01 PM »
Again, what makes you think that? Have you lived the lives of the past and the present and the future? What makes you think that people weren't just smoking dope and spending 10 hours a day in their parents basement playing Dungeons and Dragons? I mean really, where are you getting your information? Radios certainly don't require you go to out doors and you could easily spend hours after hours on your 80s lip phone talking with your girlsfriends and never leaving your room. Television, it's been in the living room for a long time, don't have to leave the house for that either. This generation is not as unique as you seem to think it is.
I'm tired of repeating myself. The technology today is so integrated, for better or worse, into the daily structure of life, and the ever-present need of the majority of humans to fit in and be socially accepted that they have to have the same Blackberry as their friends and text like their friends that we are more susceptible to it than ever before.

Offline Nessy

Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2009, 02:59:40 PM »
I'm tired of repeating myself. The technology today is so integrated, for better or worse, into the daily structure of life, and the ever-present need of the majority of humans to fit in and be socially accepted that they have to have the same Blackberry as their friends and text like their friends that we are more susceptible to it than ever before.

And I am telling you, that is not new. I know every generation wants to be special, and in someways they are. This is not one of them. Just because a new product is be used doesn't mean the idea or the concerns or the habits you are talking about just suddenly showed up. It's human nature and its part of growing up whether it today or 100 years ago. There is always some new technology that is going to fascinate and "capture" various portions of the population.

I've said my piece.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2009, 03:14:38 PM »
Yes, but the general over stimulation of this day's age is beyond that of any previous generation. Think about it computers are obsolete within months. People are getting the new phone whenever it comes out they're spending thousands on ringtones and whatever. That's unprecedented. 

Offline Nessy

Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2009, 03:16:26 PM »
Yes, but the general over stimulation of this day's age is beyond that of any previous generation. Think about it computers are obsolete within months. People are getting the new phone whenever it comes out they're spending thousands on ringtones and whatever. That's unprecedented.

Yeah and the generation after you can say the samething, and the generation after that generation and the generation after that. It's not new.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2009, 03:33:50 PM »
Yeah and the generation after you can say the samething, and the generation after that generation and the generation after that. It's not new.
It doesn't have to be new to be true.

Offline Nessy

Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2009, 04:00:05 PM »
It doesn't have to be new to be true.

I never said it did. I just think you are focusing too much on the technology, on the things involved when its the people that are the common denominator here. Pick a kid out of your class, and I could tell you about a similar one I had in mine.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Would You Kindly?
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2009, 04:09:31 PM »
I never said it did. I just think you are focusing too much on the technology, on the things involved when its the people that are the common denominator here. Pick a kid out of your class, and I could tell you about a similar one I had in mine.
Well of course people are the commonality, but the tech of today makes it much easier to over stimulate than the years of yore. That's my point. More people are letting the machines use them than the other way around.