Suggested amendment to ‘Big Group’ definition

Started by BlueOrange, May 01, 2023, 05:32:40 PM

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BlueOrange

Hiya, I’m part of a game that is starting up, things are nice and active, and we have 6 approved character sheets from 6 players. (5 posted at this precise moment.) I’m encouraging the GM to apply for Big Group status and proposing radical new ideas about how to organize the threads. The GM is understandably reluctant to go in a bold new direction when there is any uncertainty about the ability to claim a subforum.


If I have understood the new rules correctly, then the definition

Big Group Games are group roleplays with six or more participants, including the game master.

Could usefully (and correctly) be revised to say:

Big Group Games are group roleplays with six or more participants, including the game master. We no longer have a minimum number of posts for big groups that are active.

Oniya

#1
Your interpretation is correct, and when I reviewed the Group Game post, it makes no mention anywhere about the previously existing post requirement.  The post count is specifically included only in the Small Group section, which allows for a smaller player count.

That said, if a GM is unsure if their group meets 'Big Group' status, they can reach out at any time to Staff for clarification on what conditions (if any) still need to be met.  We do have to hear from the GM directly to grant board status.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! (Oct 31) - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up! Requests closed

BlueOrange

Absolutely agreed. If you have a look at the discord chat, it does seem that the current expression of the group rules is widely misunderstood. That said, I have the answer I need, thank you very much!

Amaris

I might be misunderstanding, but in the "Group games on Elliquiy" post. It does have a post requirement"



Sorry about the highlighted parts, that was just cause I was searching for what I needed!


Oniya

If you scroll up slightly, you'll see that those requirements are for the 'Small Group' board requests.

Quote from: Aethyrium on March 18, 2023, 03:12:47 PM
A Big Group Game may immediately request a board in the appropriate group category as determined above.   To request your board you must...

  • You meet the six player minimum, which will be confirmed by posted character sheets.

    • If you choose to post sheets for your player, the sheet must designate what Elliquiy member is playing the character to be counted.
  • Send a PM to any member of Staff. Please include...

    • The name of your game which is what your board will be called.
    • A link to the thread with the posted character sheets.

      • This should be posted in the appropriate category, and will be transferred to your board upon creation.
    • The username of you Co-GM(s), if applicable.
    • Any additional links, such a a worldbuilding thread, that you would like moved to the board.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! (Oct 31) - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up! Requests closed

Amaris

Oh, okay. So, the only way there are those requirements is if there are less than 6 people?



Oniya

Exactly.  I've gotten official confirmation from the Gs on this.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! (Oct 31) - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up! Requests closed

BlueOrange

Quote from: Amaris on May 01, 2023, 07:37:06 PM
I might be misunderstanding, but in the "Group games on Elliquiy" post. It does have a post requirement"



Sorry about the highlighted parts, that was just cause I was searching for what I needed!

That is exactly the conversation we were having. I figured, “If this confusion is happening to us, it might be happening to other people.” And then I thought “Rather than asking for a clarification, maybe I can be useful, and suggest something completely unambiguous?”

And that brings us to where we are. (Aside from the debate we had about precise interpretation of the word ‘above’.)

Oniya

There might indeed be some clarifying edits made soon.  :-)
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! (Oct 31) - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up! Requests closed

Greenthorn

Quote from: Oniya on May 02, 2023, 01:06:35 AM
There might indeed be some clarifying edits made soon.  :-)


There is still a lot of confusion about the group game requirements. I think it would be easier to understand if the second line was removed from here:


Small Group Games are group roleplays with five or less participants, including the game master.

Big Group Games are group roleplays with six or more participants, including the game master.

A Small Group Game should be posted in the appropriate small group category as determined above.


It makes it seem like the rules that follow are for BIG GAMES and SMALL.

It would be much easier to understand.

Haibane

Quote from: Amaris on May 01, 2023, 08:50:03 PM
Oh, okay. So, the only way there are those requirements is if there are less than 6 people?

Now I'm confused. Yes, I know, with me that's not hard to achieve.

Is it now the case that you can have a separate Small Group game board for your Small Group RP once you hit 250 IC posts?

Britwitch

Quote from: Haibane on June 07, 2023, 07:47:49 AM
Now I'm confused. Yes, I know, with me that's not hard to achieve.

Is it now the case that you can have a separate Small Group game board for your Small Group RP once you hit 250 IC posts?

Once you hit the required IC post count with a small group (5 players or less) then you can request a sub forum, yes.

Current status : Selectively seeking new stories

Britwitch

Quote from: Greenthorn on June 06, 2023, 09:35:28 PM

There is still a lot of confusion about the group game requirements. I think it would be easier to understand if the second line was removed from here:


Small Group Games are group roleplays with five or less participants, including the game master.

Big Group Games are group roleplays with six or more participants, including the game master.

A Small Group Game should be posted in the appropriate small group category as determined above.


It makes it seem like the rules that follow are for BIG GAMES and SMALL.

It would be much easier to understand.

Given that this is the current wording...

Quote from: Aethyrium on March 18, 2023, 03:12:47 PM
Big or Small? A Board for Every Size


Small Group Games are group roleplays with five participants, including the game master.

Big Group Games are group roleplays with six or more participants, including the game master.


A Small Group Game should be posted in the appropriate small group category as determined above.

  • Use the same tag to start each thread title.

    • Example: [Elliquiy Gone Wild]
  • We recommend keeping your thread count to 2 (or less) per participating person, but you're welcome to create threads as you deem necessary for your story.
  • You may request a board if you desire and feel it necessary after you have accumulated 250 posts total in-character (IC) posts, provided you have at least four active players.

    • Out of Character (OOC) posts do not count.
    • Characters sheets, recruitment, world buildings, etc do not count.
    • 'Social Media' style posts do not count.
  • To request your board send a PM to any member of Staff. Please include...

    • The name of your game which is what your board will be called.
    • A link to all threads you would like moved into your board upon creation.

      • Please include a post count for each individual thread for confirmation
    • The username of you Co-GM(s), if applicable.
    • The usernames of your active players.


A Big Group Game may immediately request a board in the appropriate group category as determined above. To request your board you must...

  • You meet the six player minimum, which will be confirmed by posted character sheets.

    • If you choose to post sheets for your player, the sheet must designate what Elliquiy member is playing the character to be counted.
  • Send a PM to any member of Staff. Please include...

    • The name of your game which is what your board will be called.
    • A link to the thread with the posted character sheets.

      • This should be posted in the appropriate category, and will be transferred to your board upon creation.
    • The username of you Co-GM(s), if applicable.
    • Any additional links, such a a worldbuilding thread, that you would like moved to the board.

...I'm not sure how to make it any easier to understand given that the specifications are detailed for each type of group game after the initial explanation in relation to the number of players each group needs.
Removing either of the definitions seems counter productive given that that's the first thing GMs probably need to be aware of when trying to understand how we're classifying group games.

Current status : Selectively seeking new stories

Oniya

Perhaps shifting the line 'Big Group Games are group roleplays with six or more participants, including the game master.' to fall just before 'A Big Group Game may immediately request a board'?
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! (Oct 31) - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up! Requests closed

Britwitch

Quote from: Oniya on June 07, 2023, 11:06:22 AM
Perhaps shifting the line 'Big Group Games are group roleplays with six or more participants, including the game master.' to fall just before 'A Big Group Game may immediately request a board'?

Maybe, yeah. I think the idea was to have them at the top as opening statements so people could see straightaway how many people they needed for each type of group game but pulling that line down can't hurt.

Current status : Selectively seeking new stories

BlueOrange

Quote from: BlueOrange on May 01, 2023, 05:32:40 PM


If I have understood the new rules correctly, then the definition

Big Group Games are group roleplays with six or more participants, including the game master.

Could usefully (and correctly) be revised to say:

Big Group Games are group roleplays with six or more participants, including the game master. We no longer have a minimum number of posts for big groups that are active.

It’s redundant, but it’s clearer.

Another alternative would be to move the definition of ‘big game’ to after the section of ‘small game’ procedures. This would communicate more strongly that the small game procedures do not apply to big games.

Alternatively, delete the words ‘as determined above’ from the procedural rules about big games, since the six-player requirement is detailed immediately below those words.

Any/all of those measures would reduce the amount of debate that goes into interpreting these rules.