Religion and society

[MattMatt]

I myself was raised religious and am currently religious (although I have trouble keeping my faith). I have experienced the bad qualities and the beautiful things of faith. Only recently I have entered into a discussion about what the social contribution of faith is.

On the one hand it brings unity in society and place to rest spiritually. And on the other hand, it brings a lot of pain to people because a group of people are abusing the power of religion.

My question to you guys is: what is the social contribution of religion? And if you think it's not there, why?

[midnightblack]

Religious belief was foundational in the development of human societies. Though I am certainly not qualified to offer any kind of overview on the matter, it should be clear enough it goes back very deep when it comes to how societies are shaped and even how we think, relate to the world and each other. All that being said, I do believe that religion is slowly but surely becoming a thing of the past, an appendage from an age when it was necessary in order to fill a void in our understanding of the world. A time when the world itself was little more than the ground beneath us and the lights in the sky. I am not saying it will disappear tomorrow, but I think it has served its purpose into bringing us where we are today. Aside of some catastrophe that would wipe away virtually all progress (and memories of) and send us back into the stone age, we've developed better tools to make sense of reality (or those aspects of it that are accessible to us in one way or another) and help us move forward as a civilization.

I myself am irreligious and largely unconcerned with the topic. I certainly hold the belief that people should be free to seek whatever spiritual comfort appeases them, though obviously limited by what we've collectively established to be the norms of civility and human rights.

[Oniya]

I think there's a substantial difference between 'religion' and 'faith'.  When you strip most of them down to brass tacks, I believe the end result was

best stated by Abraham Lincoln

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGErt4CfLD0

Yes, I am a bit irreverent.  'Grimness' is only a short step from 'judgemental'.  But if you think about it, it's true.  The Really Important Bits involve not doing things that harm the community - those things that midnightblack correctly calls 'norms of civility', and there's a promise that there will be a benefit in the end.  Maybe that's just fertilizing a tree, maybe harps or ambrosia are involved.  Or maybe the knowledge that you've been an upstanding member of that community.

[Thufir Hawat]

I myself was raised religious and am currently religious (although I have trouble keeping my faith). I have experienced the bad qualities and the beautiful things of faith. Only recently I have entered into a discussion about what the social contribution of faith is.

Faith's goal isn't to have any social contribution. There is (at least) one, and quite substantial IMO...but it's supposed to lead  to spiritual advancements, not societal ones.
Of course, people with spiritual advancements should also form a better society by relating better to each other (which is part of their religion, at least in the major faiths).

On the one hand it brings unity in society and place to rest spiritually. And on the other hand, it brings a lot of pain to people because a group of people are abusing the power of religion.

Yes, and it drives people to improve constantly, and to account for an invisible judge who knows everything.
But where there exists any kind of power, there will be people who try to abuse it. The answer isn't to remove any means for people to have power over each other, IMO...because then those same people would abuse personal power instead.
See: "social media stars" for a shining example.

My question to you guys is: what is the social contribution of religion? And if you think it's not there, why?

Well, obviously I think there is, if you read so far. That said, it is becoming less and less in our day and age...because the power of religion in general is weakening (and obviously less power means less changes of any kind).
And that is leaving a void, which people today are filling in their own ways - some turn to the "Western Confucianism" of Science, Human Rights & Charity, some turn to social media, some to various kinds of indulgence, some to more radical forms of faith which, by definition, don't allow for this void to ever occur.

[Stardusk]

"Every time I see a person fleeing from reason to religion, I think to myself, there goes a person who simply cannot stand being so goddamned lonely anymore." -Kurt Vonnegut, '82

I think that's the biggie there. I think religion, or rather, the sharing of religion like having a group or a church or a club, gives people a tribe, and a tribe is one of the things that mankind in general craves. That tribe can be an online community, a sports team, a knitting club, a construction crew, but religion is a really special one because you're not just joining a tribe, you're joining a tribe that tells you some magic sky entity thinks you're pretty cool. That can galvanize people together and open discussions about things like Death and Sin can make people feel like they're close to their church tribe without having to do too much personal revelations.

[Azy]

If you can find a good community, it does give you a sense of belonging.  My more positive experiences have come from an eclectic Pagan leaning group.  There were members of established religions, all were welcome as long as you were able to civilly participate in discussions and not put anyone else down.  Some interesting discussions with varying viewpoints were had.  There was also a prayer list that you could request someone who was having a hard time be put on.  Believe what you like, but there were some bad circumstances that got turned around pretty quickly in very unexpected ways when a group of witches got together and started praying to their deities for those people. 

I consider myself spiritual but non denominational because organized religion just seems insane to me.  I was talking to one of my aunts the other day, and their small church is part of the United Methodist group.  From what she said, this group is becoming very liberal and deciding that nothing in the bible actually happened, it's just stories to teach lessons.  Personally, I could mostly go with that, but a lot of people, especially small town Pennsylvania, does not like this, so many churches are splintering off into a new group that's going to stay conservative and traditional.  Even people in the same religion can't seem to agree. 

Just to be clear, I'm not bashing organized religion, I'd just rather not be part of it.  And it also points out that it can create belonging and a community, but it can also create division. 

[RedRose]

I guess that would depend on whether the religion favors justice and charity.

[HannibalBarca]

Outside of unprovable supernatural claims, anything a religion does can also be done by a secular individual or organization--charity, inclusiveness, community, etc.  The only things religion can do that secular can't is make claims that can't be verified on existential issues.  Science is grounded in testable hypotheses and evidence, and religion is based on faith claims, regardless of what agenda-driven apologists will say.

In case Pascal's Wager comes up--saying it is better to believe in a god, just in case, begs the question of which god you should believe in, out of the tens of thousands that have been worshiped over the millennia in this world, most of which would punish you if you worship one different from them.  The odds of picking the right one--if there even is a right one--are ridiculously small.  Claiming that the one you currently worship--or have always worshiped--is the one true god, is about as believable as me saying that I've only ever eaten Captain Crunch, and it's the only cereal that tastes good and is healthy for you--even though I've never tasted any other cereals in my life.

A religion can have good aspects to it, but a belief system rooted in faith, for me, is a flawed system.  It may not be a flawed system that will hurt other people, and just lead to you possibly worshiping the wrong deity for the rest of your life with no reward after you die--but for me, truth matters more than faith, and even if the truth will be painful to me, I want to know truth, not a comfortable belief that may be false.

[Twisted Crow]

This is going to be filthy rich coming from me, someone that’s inching closer to atheism as time goes on, but…

In my heart of hearts, I would echo some points here and say that a little bit of faith and hope can go a long way. The problem is when it gets poisoned with illusions of purity and just plain ol’ cherry-picking. The diety might be a perfect being, but the people that believe in them are flawed.

The word “cult”, I think, has never been able to shake the ugly “poison kool-aid” connotations that come with it now. And one of the things I like to say these days is that a religion is a cult that has survived long enough to be mainstream. And that’s with all of the good and bad that this brings.

I have met some kind Christians that would seem to embody their spiritual beliefs well, and I also know some Christians that seem like cherry-picking fools that use their “faith” as a weapon to attack anyone that they don’t like (teh gays, trans, people of a certain race), etc.

In short, I think that religion can bring out the best in someone’s humanity… as well as the potential of it bringing out their worst. It is not my place to attack their hope… until they are using their faith to attack others, anyway.

[Dice]

So... I am guessing the point is to ask this in a modern context, but as a student of history I would like to adapt the openness of the question some.

There has historically been a lot of good done by the church in its area. Some of it is seen, charity, food and shelter offered to those in need to the unseen benefits, for example a place for gay men and women to go and reasonably and socially acceptably avoid marriage. In a town setting every building may be wood, but the church was often stone, in face of extreme weather events you had shelter in a communally accepted safe space.

Then there was the other things that it offered, sanctuary, a way to lesson one's punishment to perceived unjust law by the fiction you were clergy and thus not at the mercy of non papal law. (I can really go in depth into this if anyone likes, it's a fascinating piece of history.)

There is also the fact that we have used it to record history. I watched a whole series of lectures from Yale on YouTube about the early Hebrew bible and the amount of real world history we can take from the books and match to known external factors is fantastic. How we understand the stories, the fables and the changes that came in time. (You will honour no Gods before me is a commandment because early Jews were, from all available evidence, not monotheistic.)

In Modern day, often those who donate time and charity are still those who are of faith. I would have been homeless at 16 is not for my church. Often the food banks, AA meetings and people giving their time to help rehabilitation efforts in prisons do so though an honest belief in faith. Offering the chance to try and do as much good as they can in the world.

While it is also true that politically the use of faith has been co-opted to use it as a weapon. This, in the American context, started sadly in modern society with Brown V Board of Ed... Showing that what really mattered was upholding the WASP way of life, not faith itself.

This too can be shown up in history. I would have to find the artical again, but there was a period in time were it was safer to have an Atheist as a guest in the Whitehouse then someone not of the correct Protestant faith. Because the idea of one monolithic "Christian" grouping is a more modern ideal, something that 100 years ago was far more fractured up until Brown were the groups found a course worth fighting against in unison and not each other. For example Baptist or Methodist today might feel a bit inconsequential as a label under the Christian umbrella, this detente is historically a new phenomenon.

But personally I would like to think that faith can do good in the world, I just wish I could also say I see more people following the teachings they claim to aspire too then just using them as a cudgel for political gain.

[Oniya]

This too can be shown up in history. I would have to find the artical again, but there was a period in time were it was safer to have an Atheist as a guest in the Whitehouse then someone not of the correct Protestant faith. Because the idea of one monolithic "Christian" grouping is a more modern ideal, something that 100 years ago was far more fractured up until Brown were the groups found a course worth fighting against in unison and not each other. For example Baptist or Methodist today might feel a bit inconsequential as a label under the Christian umbrella, this detente is historically a new phenomenon.

Well heck, when JFK was running for office, there were some concerns raised because he would be the first Roman Catholic president (gasp!)

[GloomCookie]

Considering JFK's daddy was literally bribing Jackie Kennedy to remain with him until after he was voted out, it doesn't really matter what his religion was. JFK was having numerous affairs that the Secret Service was covering up just to keep from rocking the White House with scandals. The whole Kennedy family has been corrupt for decades and it's only because JFK was assassinated that he is remembered fondly. Had his presidential term ended, he would likely be remembered as just a rabid horn dog. It was Johnson who pushed the Civil Rights Act using JFK's death as a rallying cry by saying "It's what he would have wanted" and he had the political clout to make it happen.

But back on topic. A lot of people love pointing to the apparent hypocrisy of the Bible and its numerous inconsistencies, without understanding that the Bible itself is built on trying to be as inclusive as possible. The original Old Testament was the Torah used by the Jewish people following their numerous run-ins with conquerors who forced them from the Holy Land. They wrote the Torah as a sort of how-to guide on keeping order and stability, hence the 10 Commandments, Deuteronomy, and so on. God is seen as a pretty mean guy but that's because the Jewish people knew that the world was a crappy place a lot of the time, given their history. Jesus (who by the way should probably be Joshua, as in the original texts his Hebrew name was Yeshua, which translates to modern tongue as Joshua) was born as a Jew, and he learned to become a carpenter before he took his 12 disciples and started preaching peace and love.

What sets Christianity apart from Judaism is that shortly after Jesus was arrested, Paul encountered a Roman senator who wanted to convert. Rather than make him get circumcised, as was a Jewish custom, Paul simply let them join. This would set the trend for almost a thousand years of Christianity accepting anyone who wanted to join despite their background. The major Gospels were each targeted at a particular group to get them onboard with the religion. The Gospel of Matthew focuses on Jesus' status as King of the Jews and tries to convert existing Jewish peoples, while the Gospel of Mark is meant to be short and more of a story, focused on converting people far and wide by spreading the story of Jesus' deeds. The Gospel of Luke is meant to be an account of Jesus and his works as well as how Christianity began. Finally, there's the Gospel of John, who writes Jesus as essentially God, and is meant to focus on the religious connotations of Jesus being the messiah and the miracles that Jesus performed.

As time went on, Christianity would also incorporate a number of other religious beliefs by making accommodation within the faith for them so they would transition easier. Easter is a time of rebirth, hence why it falls near the Spring Equinox and often when there are young animals. Chickens lay eggs, bunnies start to have babies, and so Jesus was also reborn. For pagans, it made sense that rebirth also coincided with this Jesus guy, and so that's how bunnies and Easter Eggs became part of it. Christmas was originally a Roman holiday called Saturnalia, and was meant as a similar period of rebirth since it falls close to the Winter Solstice, and thus is the darkest period but because of Christ, the darkness starts to recede.

That doesn't mean Christianity has been all flowers and rainbows. Perhaps one of the most damning books attributed to Christianity was the publishing of the Malleus Maleficarum, translated as the Hammer of Witches. Published in 1487, this book was written by German Catholic Heinrich Kramer who basically wouldn't get over a lady named Helena Scheuberin. Long story short, Scheuberin had opinions and didn't like Kramer and so he put her on trial for witchcraft which ended with Kramer being told no, get over her, and he never did, stalking her for a while claiming she was a witch before being kicked out of the city. He responded by writing a book and kicking off the witch hunts across Europe. Kramer's contemporaries actually condemned the book for what it was, but it became insanely popular mostly because it scared the shit out of people and caused a lot of innocent deaths all because one dude would not let it go.

And of course let's not forget the Spanish Inquisition, but even this was not as bad as it seems. The context for this is that it was founded in 1478 by King Ferdinand II and Queen Isabella I following the Reconquista of Spain, and attempted to root out those causing problems for the kingdom by not being Christian, prosecuting 150,000 over 3 centuries. Despite the numerous accusations, only around 3,000 to 5,000 were ever executed, meaning ~2.7% of cases. Not great, but not bad either. The Reconquista was a centuries long war between Christian Spain and the various Islamic Califates that came from North Africa. Some of the Califates were decent, some were not. Regardless, the Spanish Inquisition was meant to ferret out those who were heretics, those who claimed to convert from Judaism and Islam to Christianity, which was made worse in 1492 when it was decreed that non-Christians had to leave Castile, leading to thousands of forced conversions over the next decade.

I'm not writing all this to justify Christianity's questionable actions over the centuries, but to give some historical context for things that we today don't think about when it comes to the two thousand years of turmoil that have occurred to influence people and events.

[Azy]

This is going to be filthy rich coming from me, someone that’s inching closer to atheism as time goes on, but…

In my heart of hearts, I would echo some points here and say that a little bit of faith and hope can go a long way. The problem is when it gets poisoned with illusions of purity and just plain ol’ cherry-picking. The diety might be a perfect being, but the people that believe in them are flawed.

The word “cult”, I think, has never been able to shake the ugly “poison kool-aid” connotations that come with it now. And one of the things I like to say these days is that a religion is a cult that has survived long enough to be mainstream. And that’s with all of the good and bad that this brings.

I have met some kind Christians that would seem to embody their spiritual beliefs well, and I also know some Christians that seem like cherry-picking fools that use their “faith” as a weapon to attack anyone that they don’t like (teh gays, trans, people of a certain race), etc.

In short, I think that religion can bring out the best in someone’s humanity… as well as the potential of it bringing out their worst. It is not my place to attack their hope… until they are using their faith to attack others, anyway.

This kind of reminds me of the saying the some of the kindest people you'll ever meet are covered in tattoos, and some of the most judgmental go to church every Sunday. 

[TheGlyphstone]

Considering JFK's daddy was literally bribing Jackie Kennedy to remain with him until after he was voted out, it doesn't really matter what his religion was. JFK was having numerous affairs that the Secret Service was covering up just to keep from rocking the White House with scandals. The whole Kennedy family has been corrupt for decades and it's only because JFK was assassinated that he is remembered fondly. Had his presidential term ended, he would likely be remembered as just a rabid horn dog. It was Johnson who pushed the Civil Rights Act using JFK's death as a rallying cry by saying "It's what he would have wanted" and he had the political clout to make it happen.

But back on topic. A lot of people love pointing to the apparent hypocrisy of the Bible and its numerous inconsistencies, without understanding that the Bible itself is built on trying to be as inclusive as possible. The original Old Testament was the Torah used by the Jewish people following their numerous run-ins with conquerors who forced them from the Holy Land. They wrote the Torah as a sort of how-to guide on keeping order and stability, hence the 10 Commandments, Deuteronomy, and so on. God is seen as a pretty mean guy but that's because the Jewish people knew that the world was a crappy place a lot of the time, given their history. Jesus (who by the way should probably be Joshua, as in the original texts his Hebrew name was Yeshua, which translates to modern tongue as Joshua) was born as a Jew, and he learned to become a carpenter before he took his 12 disciples and started preaching peace and love.

What sets Christianity apart from Judaism is that shortly after Jesus was arrested, Paul encountered a Roman senator who wanted to convert. Rather than make him get circumcised, as was a Jewish custom, Paul simply let them join. This would set the trend for almost a thousand years of Christianity accepting anyone who wanted to join despite their background. The major Gospels were each targeted at a particular group to get them onboard with the religion. The Gospel of Matthew focuses on Jesus' status as King of the Jews and tries to convert existing Jewish peoples, while the Gospel of Mark is meant to be short and more of a story, focused on converting people far and wide by spreading the story of Jesus' deeds. The Gospel of Luke is meant to be an account of Jesus and his works as well as how Christianity began. Finally, there's the Gospel of John, who writes Jesus as essentially God, and is meant to focus on the religious connotations of Jesus being the messiah and the miracles that Jesus performed.

As time went on, Christianity would also incorporate a number of other religious beliefs by making accommodation within the faith for them so they would transition easier. Easter is a time of rebirth, hence why it falls near the Spring Equinox and often when there are young animals. Chickens lay eggs, bunnies start to have babies, and so Jesus was also reborn. For pagans, it made sense that rebirth also coincided with this Jesus guy, and so that's how bunnies and Easter Eggs became part of it. Christmas was originally a Roman holiday called Saturnalia, and was meant as a similar period of rebirth since it falls close to the Winter Solstice, and thus is the darkest period but because of Christ, the darkness starts to recede.

That doesn't mean Christianity has been all flowers and rainbows. Perhaps one of the most damning books attributed to Christianity was the publishing of the Malleus Maleficarum, translated as the Hammer of Witches. Published in 1487, this book was written by German Catholic Heinrich Kramer who basically wouldn't get over a lady named Helena Scheuberin. Long story short, Scheuberin had opinions and didn't like Kramer and so he put her on trial for witchcraft which ended with Kramer being told no, get over her, and he never did, stalking her for a while claiming she was a witch before being kicked out of the city. He responded by writing a book and kicking off the witch hunts across Europe. Kramer's contemporaries actually condemned the book for what it was, but it became insanely popular mostly because it scared the shit out of people and caused a lot of innocent deaths all because one dude would not let it go.

And of course let's not forget the Spanish Inquisition, but even this was not as bad as it seems. The context for this is that it was founded in 1478 by King Ferdinand II and Queen Isabella I following the Reconquista of Spain, and attempted to root out those causing problems for the kingdom by not being Christian, prosecuting 150,000 over 3 centuries. Despite the numerous accusations, only around 3,000 to 5,000 were ever executed, meaning ~2.7% of cases. Not great, but not bad either. The Reconquista was a centuries long war between Christian Spain and the various Islamic Califates that came from North Africa. Some of the Califates were decent, some were not. Regardless, the Spanish Inquisition was meant to ferret out those who were heretics, those who claimed to convert from Judaism and Islam to Christianity, which was made worse in 1492 when it was decreed that non-Christians had to leave Castile, leading to thousands of forced conversions over the next decade.

I'm not writing all this to justify Christianity's questionable actions over the centuries, but to give some historical context for things that we today don't think about when it comes to the two thousand years of turmoil that have occurred to influence people and events.

And let's not forget things like the 30 Years War either. Christianity might be very willing to pillage aspects of other faiths to aid conversion, but as people noted upthread, for a long time it was viciously intolerant of anyone from a different branch of Christiandom.


That said though...the topic of the thread is 'religion and society' but we've focused almost exclusively on Christianity. What does the answer to the topic look like from non-Christian faiths? I know we've at least got a few assorted Wiccan and other pagans around - the only practicing Muslim I can think of though is Formless and I haven't see them around lately.

[Oniya]

Well, I make no real secret about being Pagan.  We just aren't a terribly organized group.  The saying goes that if you ask ten different Pagans the same question, you'll get thirteen different answers.

[Iniquitous]

I won't derail the original topic of the thread further by pointing out the history of Judaism/Christianity. Suffice it to say, I have issues. Lots of issues.

Anyway, organized religion is a tool used by those in power to control the masses.  I am sure way back when the idea of organized religion was comforting. It was a backbone for the community, it “explained” the world around them when they couldn’t understand why things happened. It gave them rules on how they were supposed to act.

Now?  It is divisive, exclusionary, hateful, misogynistic, and power-hungry. It wants to keep the masses filled with distrust of anyone that looks different, believes different, loves different, or lives differently -despite- the words in its own rule book.

I am sure there are many good people who follow organized religion, I have met a couple. But overall?  Naw.

To quote the movie Dogma “It’s better to have an idea than a belief. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier.”  I have an idea – I am spiritual, not religious.  That allows me to look in from the outside and see how organized religion is effing up society these days.

[Azy]

Right now organized is a threat to human rights.  I don't think I've ever heard an argument against abortion that wasn't religion based.  The groups against LGBTQ rights are, as far as I've seen, using religion as an argument.  It really irks me that these people want to turn their bible into federal law because their morals and religious book are truth, and they're saving our souls.  I seriously disagree....   

[Twisted Crow]

To quote the movie Dogma “It’s better to have an idea than a belief. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier.”  I have an idea – I am spiritual, not religious.  That allows me to look in from the outside and see how organized religion is effing up society these days.

To this day, Dogma is one of my favorite movies with religion as it’s spine, because I have always felt that identifies a lot of human problems that it inherently has from within. Specifically Catholicism, of course.

[MattMatt]

I see this thread is starting a lot of conversations, I enjoy reading it. I learn a lot from this.
I would also like to add something to this conversation.

Right now organized is a threat to human rights.  I don't think I've ever heard an argument against abortion that wasn't religion based.  The groups against LGBTQ rights are, as far as I've seen, using religion as an argument.  It really irks me that these people want to turn their bible into federal law because their morals and religious book are truth, and they're saving our souls.  I seriously disagree....   

I am from Europe so am not very familiar with how religion and government work together in the United States. But in my country I notice a big difference between the religious youth and the religious elder. Indeed, the elderly regularly oppose abortion and other LGBTQ rights. But the majority of religious youth (that I know) support LGBTQ rights. That's why I think in a generation or two the hatred from the church will subside. In my country, hatred is already declining. With the exception of a minority, most churches discuss LGBTQ topics. This shows a start of a good thing. The churches that don't go along with this change will die out because the young people don't come there anymore.

[Oniya]

With the exception of a minority, most churches discuss LGBTQ topics. This shows a start of a good thing. The churches that don't go along with this change will die out because the young people don't come there anymore.

This sort of thing is roughly the reason that church-attendance is declining in the US, and that the older-religious are panicking.  My own separation from the Catholic church began when the pastor kept putting anti-abortion stuff in the Kyrie (not that we used the Greek, but it was the best way I could come up with to identify that bit.)  Add to that an exposure to other options when I went to college, and it went from there. 

You asked what religion brings to society, and I've been thinking about what the positives are - because despite the rampant abuses, there are some things that might be tricky to implement outside of that institution.  (Not saying impossible, just potentially tricky.  Since we're intelligent people here, it seems a good place to bat potential solutions around.)

1) Some amount of codified 'rest'.  Call to prayer, observing the Sabbath, etc.   In today's work-centered society, we need that more than ever.
2) A certain focus on coming together and interacting.  Church socials, High Holidays, weddings, funerals, etc.  The fact that $DEITY says so is a strong incentive, but need not be the only one.
3) Thinking outside the 'self'.  If you look for organizations that add to the 'community safety net', a lot of them are faith-oriented.  The leaders of local communities are also often consulted for advice, especially when professional services are unobtainable.

These are just three that come to mind - and aren't particular to a specific religion.

[Azy]

Catholic churches in my area are closing at a scary rate.  A few of them combined.  A private Catholic school had to close last year.  So yeah, the younger generation here is also rejecting the dogma for the most part.  I think that's a good sign, but right now that older generation is making a big push to preserve their old ways.   

[Oniya]

How are the other denominations faring?  I know we have a few churches in the area that are - as MattMatt mentioned - embracing a positive attitude towards LGBTQA+ congregants (it's somewhat easier to notice that particular shift) which may improve their attendances.

[Azy]

As I think I mentioned earlier in the conversation, the United Methodist church is doing that, but many churches in this area don't like that very much.  My aunt who told me about it didn't fully understand it, so couldn't explain exactly how it works, but something in the fine print of the contracts for them being associated in that group means the United Methodist church owns their church.  It's basically becoming two different denominations.  The United Methodist church is going very liberal, probably to save themselves.  Those member churches who wish to do so can pay 2% of what their property is worth and join the Global Methodist Church I believe they're calling it, who are going to stay more traditional and conservative. 

Most of the churches here in this county want to do that, but many who owe mortgages on their buildings or recently renovated can't afford to, so if they don't bring in new attendance with their more liberal outlook, they're probably screwed.  My aunt's church, and the one I used to go to for a good chunk of my teens is a small church and the town owns it, so there's going to be a vote in a few months on whether to leave or stay.  She thinks they'll probably leave. 

The few times I've been to a church in the last few years most of the people there were older.  This is a conservative redneck area, and still the younger generation isn't all that interested in church.     

[MattMatt]

Happy new year!

You asked what religion brings to society, and I've been thinking about what the positives are - because despite the rampant abuses, there are some things that might be tricky to implement outside of that institution.  (Not saying impossible, just potentially tricky.  Since we're intelligent people here, it seems a good place to bat potential solutions around.)

1) Some amount of codified 'rest'.  Call to prayer, observing the Sabbath, etc.   In today's work-centered society, we need that more than ever.
2) A certain focus on coming together and interacting.  Church socials, High Holidays, weddings, funerals, etc.  The fact that $DEITY says so is a strong incentive, but need not be the only one.
3) Thinking outside the 'self'.  If you look for organizations that add to the 'community safety net', a lot of them are faith-oriented.  The leaders of local communities are also often consulted for advice, especially when professional services are unobtainable.

These are just three that come to mind - and aren't particular to a specific religion.

I don't think we can come up with a solution. The change to a better future must come from within the church itself. People are terribly stubborn against change if someone brings it to them. That is why the church must reflect and improve itself. So I can't say what a good solution is.

[Oniya]

I wasn't necessarily thinking of 'within the church' - or even in the context of religion.  I was looking at the possibility (tricky though I called it) of where else these benefits could/can be/are provided.  Religions/churches often supply these things, and it's sometimes convenient to leave them in that venue, but how could those same benefits be provided in a 'post-church' society?

Kind of a little bit of a world-building puzzle, if you will.