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Author Topic: US Navy 1, pirates 0. Kidnapped US captain freed; snipers kill 3 pirates  (Read 5324 times)

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Offline The OverlordTopic starter

For a completely different take on the Somalian pirate problem


I can understand that local fury there if that's going on off the Somalian coast.

It would be no different than the crap that goes on here in the States. The folks in Palm Springs, California would be all up in arms if someone tried to erect a landfill within eyeshot of their little desert Mecca, but they'd just as willingly push all their shit and trash somewhere into Compton.

People with money and power are ultimately cowards, and often resort to this sort of thing. I have heard that freighters are bringing western garbage to Africa and dumping it on the shores, desecrating the cradle of humanity rather than finding a real alternative...what nations that is I don't know.

If the pirates watched a ship dump crap in the water and then blew a hole in it and sent it to the bottom, they'd be justified, even if it was a US ship. I wouldn't stand for that either.

These guys (at least the ones we're hearing about) are just grabbing ships and crews and ransoming then...I heard nada about this. IF they are out there for a noble cause, then you don't seize ships for ransom, you hold them until the dumping stops and the powers-that-be clean up their shit.

Do you think the ransoming pirates are using the money to clean up seafloor ecology? Fat chance; at best this is a case of crooks attacking crooks, and they're all blind men trashing the oceans in their arrogance...in the long run they're ALL going down because of it.

Of course the entire piracy issue as given to us on the news could be a fabrication, but in that case you may as well turn off your TV for good. You can't trust anything and may as well just wait for the world to implode.

...and try to find a job on dry land in the meantime.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 03:33:49 AM by The Overlord »

Offline Inkidu

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Yeah, we would have made the pirates shit themselves before we gave them a stern ass kicking.

Normally, I don't think much of squids, but SEALs damn hardcore. Hooyah!
I'm sure if they didn't have hostages the SEALs would have just put some C4 on the bottom and scuttle that thing.

Offline Schwarzepard

I read the different take article and several other articles about the issue and my conclusions are:

Toxic and nuclear waste dumping has been going in Somalia for years.

Toxic waste dumping has been going on in Europe for years, the articles didn't mention nuclear.

The author fails pathetically to justify the actions of the Somali pirates and they should still be slaughtered via 50mm machineguns.

Offline Kroduk

You can't blame them for doing what it takes to survive in a world more cutthroat and miserable than most of us can imagine. I can, however, blame them for screwing about with American ships and citizens. You'd think the world would have learned not to fuck with us by now.

Offline RubySlippers

To think what the pirates are doing is honorable.

No its just the lesser of two evils, radical Muslims are a far more dangerous threat to the nation than pirates. Who with simple and reasonable measures defensively could have reduced chances at ship. Convoy vessels by a local newspaper account they took another ship when ,shockingly, the US Destroyer couldn't get to the vessel in time. And now they are trying to target US flagged ships on purpose.

Might I suggest an odd notion lets get our warships with the US flagged vessels and keep them together it worked in WW II against the U-Boats farily well and they were a far bigger menace.

Do you want radical Sharia Law enforced on all parts of Somolia, right now the moderates support the pirates who are the only force armed well enough to keep them at bay. Eliminating them could be worst than leaving them to get what ships they can and like I pointed out we can protect our own ships. If we do so using simple and tested tactics. If you saw 20 American cargo ships with a helicopter gunship and destroyer would you try to attack it if you were pirates? I think not.

Offline Maeven

No its just the lesser of two evils, radical Muslims are a far more dangerous threat to the nation than pirates.
There's been speculation that at least a portion of the funding for Al-Shabaab, the radical Islamic militant group acting in Somalia, comes from the ransoms being demanded by these very same pirates.  It seems plausible to me.  Have you read something somewhere that says otherwise?

Offline The OverlordTopic starter


I'm not sure how much that Somalia's power structure differs from the multiple 'warlords' of the mid-90's, but whoever is holding power there, officially or otherwise, you can bet there is an organizing force on the piracy. Fishermen and farmers tend not to just get together one day and say 'hey guys...I bet if we try real hard we can be pirates!'

So I doubt any ransom money is going into legitimate hands, if there is such a thing in Somalia. I also hope what Vek's article said is not factual, or I'd be casting a very wary eye at Europe. 

And I hope that we, the US, are not involved in the dumping either.


Problem is, I have little reason to trust my government on pretty much anything.


And given the things I've learned in the past decade about the lengths that big business will go though to save a few dollars and keep profits rolling in, I won't ever trust big business again.

Ever. Ever. Ever.

Offline Inkidu

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I'm not sure how much that Somalia's power structure differs from the multiple 'warlords' of the mid-90's, but whoever is holding power there, officially or otherwise, you can bet there is an organizing force on the piracy. Fishermen and farmers tend not to just get together one day and say 'hey guys...I bet if we try real hard we can be pirates!'

So I doubt any ransom money is going into legitimate hands, if there is such a thing in Somalia. I also hope what Vek's article said is not factual, or I'd be casting a very wary eye at Europe. 

And I hope that we, the US, are not involved in the dumping either.


Problem is, I have little reason to trust my government on pretty much anything.


And given the things I've learned in the past decade about the lengths that big business will go though to save a few dollars and keep profits rolling in, I won't ever trust big business again.

Ever. Ever. Ever.
What's sadder is the government can't trust its people anymore either. /hijack

Offline Sho

We're in a better boat [no pun intended] than some. At least we have the ability to talk about our government's faults and vote for people we think will hopefully fix the problems our country is facing. /hijack

Aaaand...back to the pirate topic!

Offline Kroduk

Yeah... we have the ability to delude ourselves into thinking we're making a difference, and therefore do absolutely nothing of actual worth. Go democracy.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter


What's sadder is the government can't trust its people anymore either. /hijack

Perhaps, but you have to ask who brought that on. Lying to people and marginalizing ethnic segments of the population for years won't win anyone votes of confidence.

Offline Inkidu

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Perhaps, but you have to ask who brought that on. Lying to people and marginalizing ethnic segments of the population for years won't win anyone votes of confidence.
Oh so they only lie to the minorities? Well damn, I thought I was being lied to, too! D: I'm missing out on the whole government experience.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Oh so they only lie to the minorities? Well damn, I thought I was being lied to, too! D: I'm missing out on the whole government experience.


Lying to people as in 'people...in...general'. Come on man, you know better than that Inkidu.

Offline Inkidu

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Lying to people as in 'people...in...general'. Come on man, you know better than that Inkidu.
Of course the government lies. Hell people lie to the government. The only question is who did it first and it doesn't really matter because no one will ever know.

Offline Bliss

A boss I had and very much respected instilled in my the idea of address the problem, don't waste time trying to assign blame; with our country, as well as with Somalia, I think a lot of time can be saved by not wasting time on fingerpointing, but trying to get to the root of the respective problems and working on a fix.

Which brings me back to the point that I still maintain about the Somalian pirate situation - policing waters for the safety of our own shipping freighters is good, but to work to develop a stable government in Somalia that can take the crackdown on piracy into its own hands would be far better. Treating the problem, not merely a symptom.

Offline Zakharra

 True, but after the last screw-up's any remaking of the government is going to be resisted. It would almost be easier to take over the country/cities, taking the resistance that would come and control the ports. Leaving the countryside to it's own devices.

 Anything anyone does is going to be resisted by the fanatical zealots, and by the pirates. But the rest of the world has to stop treating the Somalia coastline as a dumping ground *eyes European nations and companies*

 While we deal with the pirates. Permanently.  Will it cost lives? Yes, but it has to be paid. No matter what happens, lives will be lost.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter



Of course the government lies. Hell people lie to the government. The only question is who did it first and it doesn't really matter because no one will ever know.

Everybody lies at some point, that’s not the point, nor is who started really the point.

The point is that the government is the one writing and enforcing laws in society. That carries power with it, and as the old adage says with power comes responsibility. That’s been a huge problem with US government in recent years; these seems to be no problem with using, abusing, and just plain throwing around power, but very little responsibility guiding it. A large portion of the world would probably agree on that.

So following the example of who ‘started it’, it’s the government’s responsibility to ‘start it’; start with a moral example. And it also starts with the big business that is lobbying to them and helping them get in office; an arena where these is barely any morality at all.

Don’t dictate law, policy, or morality to me if you have no intention of upholding it yourself. The problem lies in the fact that many of us (rightly) see government as a bloated, self-serving machine bogged down under its own weight. If they intend to lie to the people just because the people can lie too, well, then that’s a copout and proof they had every intention of doing it anyway. If our leaders want to be leaders, then they need to be leaders.




A boss I had and very much respected instilled in my the idea of address the problem, don't waste time trying to assign blame; with our country, as well as with Somalia, I think a lot of time can be saved by not wasting time on fingerpointing, but trying to get to the root of the respective problems and working on a fix.

Which brings me back to the point that I still maintain about the Somalian pirate situation - policing waters for the safety of our own shipping freighters is good, but to work to develop a stable government in Somalia that can take the crackdown on piracy into its own hands would be far better. Treating the problem, not merely a symptom.



A good maxim to live by, but plugging it into Inkidu’s argument, much of the powers-that-be are very happy with things as they are. They have no intention of changing their policies. Eight failed years with the Bush administration, Halliburton and their ilk only define the ‘problem’ as everyone else; i.e., anyone and anything standing in the way of their goals.



The problem with Somalia is going to be a complex one; a good slice of population will resent a Western involvement or presence in their country, no matter the reason or the outcome. I can understand this from a certain viewpoint; as a citizen of the US, if foreign troops were ‘keeping order’ in my hometown, I’d very likely be setting roadside bombs and sniping at them too. Even this idea of hired help for the government wouldn’t wash. I would have been watching Blackwater with a very hard eye were I in New Orleans post-Katrina. I don’t recognize a bunch of yahoos with guns from North Carolina as an authority even if the president himself marched into the town with them.


Committing to surgical strikes to get rid of pirate bases of operation; yes. Putting masses of troops into Somalia to police it for years; no. Whatever aid that goes there should be given as tools to help Somalia get on its feet with a stable government, with the warning that those rebuilding Somalia do it responsibly or we’re going to take them out as well.

Online Zeitgeist

I don't think it is a matter of choice between policing the coastline, or concentrating on the root problem, because quite clearly the only choice is both.

Also, at what point and by what measure should Somalis be expected to do their part in getting their shit together? We and others can help, but no one talks about what level of responsibility rests on the shoulders of Somalis.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter



Also, at what point and by what measure should Somalis be expected to do their part in getting their shit together? We and others can help, but no one talks about what level of responsibility rests on the shoulders of Somalis.


Well I'm sure that's for the 'experts' to hash out, but a stable government that's not in a constant state of coup I would say is desirable. Given the shitstorm that's plagued Somalia for years, I can't imagine any given Somalian saying no to that, unless they're part of the problem (pirate, warlord faction, etc.).


It doesn't have to be a pro-Western government, as we know that often equates to a vassal state. Just a Somalia that can stand on its own would go a long way toward fixing at least that side of Africa.

Offline Sabby

I'm politically illiterate, but I just saw the new South Park regarding the Somalian Pirates.

"They're french, they surrendered immediately"

Offline Kroduk

Heh. Heh heh heh heh. Awesome.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter


Actually, they've been making French toast out of a lot of ship crews, but those are typically unarmed civilian vessels.

When they take on ships that can actually shoot back it's a different story.

Offline Sabby

Yeah, but this crew was forced off the ship with a plastic Lightsabre.

Offline The OverlordTopic starter

Yeah, but this crew was forced off the ship with a plastic Lightsabre.

As opposed to a real lightsabre?  :P

Offline Bliss

As opposed to a real ship, instead of a cartoon?

>.>