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Author Topic: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.  (Read 1310 times)

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Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« on: April 12, 2009, 05:25:26 PM »
I know I don't like MMOs but that's not on a technical level that's on a it's just not for me.

However, I'm getting very bored of Japanese RPGs. I don't think they're trying anymore. I was disappointed horribly by Infinite Undiscovery and Last Remnant. Last Remnant was so bad on a basic level. Slow down, unpolished, insane curve balls.

Infinite undiscovery was bad because it really offered no strategy it's a hack-fest.

Even Final Fantasy 12 is rather bland compared to some of its older brothers. I mean if you can set it up where you can beat the whole game by programming gambits. Is it really that much fun?

Regardless of what I think though it's undeniable you end up with some androgynous character with the same "Save the world thrown into your destiny" storyline. If you're into all that fine but I think J-rpgs are dying out fast. Especially when the western counterparts are focusing on non-linear game play. :( 

Offline Will

Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2009, 05:33:34 PM »
I haven't played many RPGs recently, FF12 was the last one for me.  I could fill a whole thread to myself about how bad it was in, my opinion.  I really hated it.  I think "rather bland" is a true, albeit VERY nice, way to put it.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2009, 05:41:53 PM »
I haven't played many RPGs recently, FF12 was the last one for me.  I could fill a whole thread to myself about how bad it was in, my opinion.  I really hated it.  I think "rather bland" is a true, albeit VERY nice, way to put it.
I mean I still play FF IV and love it though it's basically fighting killing and leveling up. That's fine for a hand-held or 1992. However when it comes to my consoles I really want more. Bioshock had more interesting RPG elements.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2009, 10:34:19 PM »
I wouldn't mind some alternatives.  What gaming companies are putting out non-Japanese RPGs?

Offline consortium11

Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2009, 06:30:56 AM »
I've never been a big fan of JRPG's post the early Final Fantasy's, and I've seen nothing in recent games to tempt me to take them up. Even beyond the gameplay, the storyline elements you mention have a unique ability to turn me off through even the most basic of wiki overviews.

But I'd not say that the western rpgs are doing much better. We've disagreed on Fallout 3 in the past, but I think we'd both agree that the definate trend in RPGs at the moment is towards the Action RPG sub-genre, where combat is generally the main focus of the game and virtually the only way to complete the vast majority of quests. The commercial (and critical although I disagree with that) successof recent Bethesda rpgs has led to a rush of open world RPGs that aren't as non-linear as they appear based around combat.

In fact, trying to think of recent RPG games that I've really, really, really rated recently, I can only really think of The Witcher... and that wasn't perfect by any means. Oblivion was fun but seemed a step-back from morrowind... which in turn was less of a hardcore RPG than Daggerfall. Fallout 3 has a lot of flaws that mean I can play it for 20 minutes but always get a bad taste in my mouth. Vampire: Bloodlines was fun but pretty much a straight hack/slash and Fable (1+2) were huge disappointments. Geneforge and Avernum both have solid gameplay, but a very outdated interface hurts it. Neverwinter Nights had some pretty large flaws as well.

I'm a big RPG fan, and it should be noted that the games I'm playing the most at the moment are Fallout 2, Baldur's Gate 2 (+TOB) and Arcanum... all of which were published by 2001...

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2009, 06:49:54 AM »
I wouldn't mind some alternatives.  What gaming companies are putting out non-Japanese RPGs?
Lets see Bethesda has Elder Scrolls, and Fallout 3. The Witcher anything from Bioware.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2009, 06:54:51 AM »
I've never been a big fan of JRPG's post the early Final Fantasy's, and I've seen nothing in recent games to tempt me to take them up. Even beyond the gameplay, the storyline elements you mention have a unique ability to turn me off through even the most basic of wiki overviews.

But I'd not say that the western rpgs are doing much better. We've disagreed on Fallout 3 in the past, but I think we'd both agree that the definate trend in RPGs at the moment is towards the Action RPG sub-genre, where combat is generally the main focus of the game and virtually the only way to complete the vast majority of quests. The commercial (and critical although I disagree with that) successof recent Bethesda rpgs has led to a rush of open world RPGs that aren't as non-linear as they appear based around combat.

In fact, trying to think of recent RPG games that I've really, really, really rated recently, I can only really think of The Witcher... and that wasn't perfect by any means. Oblivion was fun but seemed a step-back from morrowind... which in turn was less of a hardcore RPG than Daggerfall. Fallout 3 has a lot of flaws that mean I can play it for 20 minutes but always get a bad taste in my mouth. Vampire: Bloodlines was fun but pretty much a straight hack/slash and Fable (1+2) were huge disappointments. Geneforge and Avernum both have solid gameplay, but a very outdated interface hurts it. Neverwinter Nights had some pretty large flaws as well.

I'm a big RPG fan, and it should be noted that the games I'm playing the most at the moment are Fallout 2, Baldur's Gate 2 (+TOB) and Arcanum... all of which were published by 2001...
Of course it's all a matter of opinion in some areas. However the technical issues in games like Last Remnant are blaring and just unpolished. What RPG isn't based largely on leveling up through combat?
I disagree too, Oblivion is so much better than Morrowind. You can actually play a thief or an assassin without the tedium of working at it for hours. The game play is farm more balanced and the leveling is more even by far. Still there isn't much reason to go beyond LVL 21.

Offline consortium11

Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2009, 10:39:58 AM »
Of course it's all a matter of opinion in some areas. However the technical issues in games like Last Remnant are blaring and just unpolished.

Not disagreeing, as I haven't played the game(s) in question, but it's also worth noting that lots of Western RPG's come complete with severe bugs. IIRC didn't Bethesda have to take down their 2nd expansion to Fallout 3 because it was broken? And both Fallout 3 and Oblivion were rife with bugs as well, although most of them weren't game-breaking.

What RPG isn't based largely on leveling up through combat?

Off the top of my head Planescape Torment and Fallout 1+2. There's also a difference between a game where combat (and levelling up through it) are a large part (say Baldur's Gate) and an "old school" hack and slash/dungeon crawler (as a perfect contrast, see Icewind Deal). To me most of the recent rpg's fall in the hack/slash camp... or as they now seem to be known "action rpgs"... while I much prefer the older style.

I disagree too, Oblivion is so much better than Morrowind. You can actually play a thief or an assassin without the tedium of working at it for hours. The game play is farm more balanced and the leveling is more even by far. Still there isn't much reason to go beyond LVL 21.

Oh, there were some definate improvements... notably fast travel which made actually getting round the place bearable unless you wanted to go sightseeing (but also took away the joy of exploring). But there were also some definate backsteps.

1) Because of the weaknesses in their version of the Gamebryo engine they were forced to remove flying... and Havoc physics have always been fairly appalling.

2) The removal of spears, crossbows, throwing stars etc etc... and the conversion of staffs to be something akin to a rifle or bazooka.

3) Auto-levelling. Oh God auto-levelling. Sure, it made the game far easier to pick up and play, but it also takes away half the sense of achievement... we've all played an RPG where you face a bad guy too early and got stomped... then after you level up you can beat him... that was a sense of achievement. It also makes no logical sense in the game... I take out the King of Worms (who's meant to be this huge threat to the world) at level 2... yet a random bandit I face at level 21 has far better stats? And suddenly has the best equipment in the game?

4) Consequences. In morrowind the house you chose made a real difference. In Oblivion the guild's all seemed to exist in their own little universe and didn't care what happened in any of the others. Wouldn't the Fighter's Guild be worried you're becoming the Arch-mage? Shouldn't the Thieves Guild be at least aware you're an Assasin? You were rarely asked or forced to ever make a choice... which has been a fairly major part of RPG's for a while.

5) Environment. Oblivion is bigger... but has less to do (less quests, less items, less characters). The environments themselves aren't as varied (far too many "forrest... dry forrest... snowy forrest).

I guess in short, it's part of the reason for the disagreement between on us on rpg games. Oblivion with all it's simplifications and pick up and play characteristics as well as a vastly simplified combat system was a far better action game with rpg elements. Morrowind was a far better RPG with action game elements.

But again, Western RPGs must be doing something right as I actually buy and play them, where as outside youtubing cutscenes I couldn't really pay less attention to any of the recent JRPGs... including the ones with huge amounts of hype and great reviews.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2009, 12:07:38 PM »
In a tried and true JRPG like Last Remnant shouldn't have those issues. Oblivion or even Morrowind to its credit is larger. Hell even GTA IV has a few bugs.

True I was sad to see medium armor and some of the weapons go, but the the upgrade in how you fought made it up for me. The option at blocking any time is far more appealing than luck and full VO can't be over-looked either. Yeah the cut down some nifty stuff but honestly I found most of the stuff they cut novel at best in Morrowind.

(On another note will they ever make you wear a katana right. In both games the blade is worn under handed with the curve up. When it's supposed to be curve down. :|) I have to say at least Bethesda is working on it and experimenting.

The Witcher is probably better as an example of a good western RPG.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2009, 12:52:37 PM »
I have to say, The Witcher does look interesting, although the information about their upcoming console version was sketchy (I much prefer consoles to PC Gaming for the user interface)

If I end up upgrading my console, I'll certainly be looking for it.

Offline consortium11

Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2009, 03:04:05 PM »
The Witcher is/was brilliant. I'd be a bit hesitant about grabbing a console version right away... we've seen a lot of brilliant rpg series become pretty poor when first ported to console. Notably they appear to be changing`the combat system and some other things.

If you do get the PC version, I'd definately recommend getting the Extended Edition. There's about 6gigs worth of updates and changes that turn a flawed orignal work into an absolutely brilliant game.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2009, 03:12:12 PM »
The Witcher is/was brilliant. I'd be a bit hesitant about grabbing a console version right away... we've seen a lot of brilliant rpg series become pretty poor when first ported to console. Notably they appear to be changing`the combat system and some other things.

If you do get the PC version, I'd definately recommend getting the Extended Edition. There's about 6gigs worth of updates and changes that turn a flawed orignal work into an absolutely brilliant game.
Hell if you can, get the European version. The sex cards are unedited. ;D I'm going to get the extended version when I pump up my PC.

Offline Jeramiahh

Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2009, 11:08:01 PM »
Me, I'm mostly disillusioned with the entire current generation of consoles. I look at the big names of this age, like MGS 4, the new Zelda and Mario, Halo, and more. I much prefer the older generations; I've been playing through classics, lately, like MGS 1, Suikoden 2, Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, FF7, and more. Despite their age, and some of them are more than 10 years old, they're still far, far better games than what's churned out today. I'm also enjoying a lot more of the independent games; Braid, World of Goo, and more.

So, no, I'm not sick of JRPGs... I'm just enjoying the golden age classics and not the dreck churned out, today.

Offline The Overlord

Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2009, 06:03:42 AM »
 
I can't give a genuinely legitimate opinion of Japanese RPG's as I just don't get into them myself. I've seen them played, checked out the sites for some, and I must say they all look predictably similar and uninspiring to me.

Mind you, I'm overwhelmingly biased toward the MMO; I play three of them and they're just too damned fun and enjoyable to give up. I understand the MMO is not for everyone for a number of reasons crossing the spectrum, from just not having the time or desire to spend the time, to just not being in the mindset for a persistent universe and in-depth setting.

I can give no real alternatives other than to say there is likely an MMO out there that is a fit for just about any player that's willing to try them.

Offline Risa

Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2009, 01:16:29 PM »
I've never been an RPG kind of person (besides Pokemon). Usually I play a lot of Strategy games, Mario and the like. I really don't have any opinions regarding JRPG's. Though I have played Final Fantasy I and II: Dawn of Souls for the GBA, and I highly enjoyed that when I first got it (A few years ago, haven't picked it up since). In fact, I think I enjoyed the music more than the game, now that I think about it >> MMO's just take up too much time and dedication, and I really don't have the stamina to spend that much of my time on an online game.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2009, 01:23:48 PM »
You know despite its shortness and fairly linear game play. I thoroughly enjoy Fable and Fable II. Maybe they're a letdown in some places but generally the ability to basically tailor almost any aspect of your characters personality and appearance is something I've never, ever seen in a JRPG. The Fable series is like a choose-your-own-adventure books as opposed to a JRPG which can range from epic novel to thirteen-year-old-girl fan-fiction. (I'm looking at you Kingdom Hearts)

Offline Oniya

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Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2009, 01:41:26 PM »
I'm kind of looking forward to the Dante's Inferno game - although it'll take some serious price drops before I can get my hands on it.  It's EA Games, so I'm pretty sure that takes it out of JRPG territory, and hey!  I've read the book, so I should be a leg up on everyone! ;D

Offline tesseractive

Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2009, 02:41:41 PM »
I can't really think of something as an RPG if I don't have some latitude to define the character, and preferably the direction of the story.

I think Planescape: Torment is the absolute pinnacle (of RPGs in general), especially if you love words, glorious words. The dialogue is simply something that has to be experienced, and the story and characters completely break out of RPG cliches.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 03:47:11 PM by tesseractive »

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2009, 02:48:34 PM »
I'm kind of looking forward to the Dante's Inferno game - although it'll take some serious price drops before I can get my hands on it.  It's EA Games, so I'm pretty sure that takes it out of JRPG territory, and hey!  I've read the book, so I should be a leg up on everyone! ;D
You and me both. I was thoroughly happy with Dead Space, and it's the same company. On your left you'll see asinine, perpetual labor; next stop treachery.

Offline consortium11

Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2009, 06:59:52 PM »
I can't really think of something as an RPG if I don't have some latitude to define the character, and preferably the direction of the story.

I think Planescape: Torment is the absolute pinnacle (of RPGs in general), especially if you love words, glorious words. The dialogue is simply something that has to be experienced, and the story and characters completely break out of RPG cliches.

+1

Best dialogue of any game ever.

If I ever had to sit down and pick a "best rpg" it would be a very hard choice between Planescape, Fallout 1 or 2, Baldur's Gate or Arcanium.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2009, 07:02:51 PM »
+1

Best dialogue of any game ever.

If I ever had to sit down and pick a "best rpg" it would be a very hard choice between Planescape, Fallout 1 or 2, Baldur's Gate or Arcanium.
Remember that we're discussing JRPGS mainly.

Offline tesseractive

Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2009, 10:10:36 PM »
Remember that we're discussing JRPGS mainly.
Sorry for the tangent. To bring it back home, I haven't tried to play more than a couple, but to my eyes the JRPGs I've seen seem like they're on rails.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Is anyone else sick of Japanese Rpgs.
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2009, 11:02:15 PM »
Sorry for the tangent. To bring it back home, I haven't tried to play more than a couple, but to my eyes the JRPGs I've seen seem like they're on rails.
Well everything is technically on the rails. It just depends on how many different tracks you get to play on.

Still, I'm a sucker for a good story but with the the unpolished look of Last Remnant (Massive slow-down, and texture loading problems) and the general lack of depth beyond the story do not immerse me in the experience, again my opinion.