Scion 2E: Onogoro-jima University

[Hexed]

as scary as scion 2 looks, its a number of books things are scattered, in how many more people would ya need AndyZ?

[Pumpkin Seeds]

I would likely need a lot of help but I've always been interested in learning Scion.

[evilnerf]

I am happy to help whoever with whatever.  I love living vicariously by helping other people create characters. 

[Pumpkin Seeds]

So that's another if you'll have me Andy and you know..deal with my not knowing anything.

[AndyZ]

The Shockwave against Trivial effect is not at all what I'm going for.  (and is frankly more expensive in points then I spent) for the two enhancement.

That enhancement is not a knack at all.  It is an enhancement per the Enhancement rules of assigning a relic:
A more similar Relic would actually be Tyrfling on page 220 of hero. 
In this case, though, I gain two enhancement when attacking multiple enemies.

If you want to houserule something where it also wipes out trivial targets for free with no additional cost, feel free, but that's not really the direction I'm going with the item in flavor or intention.

Somehow we've ended up on very different wavelengths.  Let me start over and give some book citations.

Once initiative is rolled, the round begins. When it is a character’s turn to act, they can take either one simple or one mixed action, though they may only attack once per turn. Reflexive actions can be taken at any time, even if it’s not your character’s turn.

I’M HERE TO CHEW BUBBLEGUM AND KICK ASS
Mooks aren’t a match for player characters. Sometimes, an army of them isn’t a match for player characters.
Sometimes, the hero just absolutely has to wreck the day for seven people in one blow. If Mooks exist to make player characters look cool, this over-the-top Stunt exists to make player characters look totally rad.
System: These rules apply whenever a player character succeeds on an attack and has more than one net success after buying off the Mook’s Defense. Rather than simply filling the Mook’s only Health box and taking that Mook out, take the remaining successes and spread them around to every Mook in close range, one each, and fill in their Health box as well.

Now, maybe this is another place where you might try to make an argument, but my understanding is that you can't attack multiple non-trivial characters in a single turn.  If you could, you'd either be able to attack multiple times per turn, or you wouldn't need an explicit rule for killing multiple trivial characters.

(It also makes sense when you think about it.  There'd be no real reason not to attack multiple enemies since mixed actions tend to be balanced by using the lower pool, but with the same pool, there's no disadvantage.)

When I mentioned the crescent blade, I was pointing out the Enhancement for trivial characters, not the Knack, the weapon itself, or anything else about it.  There's (annoyingly) no way to know how the Knacks are balanced for how many points unless you can take the entire weapon apart via the stats and flaws.  (Scion Companion did this eventually for 1e.  Hopefully they do so later.)  However, Enhancements itself are easy to point out as what the developers intended and balanced, with "trivial characters" being one of them.

What I was trying to suggest was that the concept would work great for the Bubblegum rule of mowing down the trivial characters and making your character the crowd control.  It sounds like that doesn't interest you, though.  Since you have a point open, maybe it'd be better to make the Enhancement generalized with that last point, rather than situational.

Awww, bummer :c

Then again, maybe I'll have two other people apply before I even get the chance to reply to you.

as scary as scion 2 looks, its a number of books things are scattered, in how many more people would ya need AndyZ?

Five would be enough. ^_^ In my head, I imagined things being around the lines of getting eight or so people during Origin, having half that number vanish before Hero due to Elliquiy attrition, and then having a Band of four or so.  We can see how this works out, though.

Make sure you read my stuff to Pumpkin, since I'll be explaining a lot of it to her and it applies to you also, but there's no point in c/ping or typing twice on the same post.

I would likely need a lot of help but I've always been interested in learning Scion.

I know you know WoD, so let me give some rundown in that regard.  There's a LOT here, but it's tightly mashed together so you can just c/p it to memorize.

The levels of the game are Origin -> Hero -> Demigod -> God.  At Origin, your Legend (which you can think of as Werewolf Rank, D&D level, or some other equivalent) is zero.  Hero is 1-4, Demigod is 5-8, and God is 9-12.  The way I run things, every player's Legend ranking will always be the same across the board.

Note that you only need Origin for an Origin character unless you want Birthrights (which are in Hero) or if you want to play something besides a Scion (which means Saints and Monsters).  Page 170 of Origin begins the standard list for divine parents; the Demigod book and the Mysteries of the World book have other options, but since Hero has ten pantheons, there's plenty there to choose from for your first character.

Now, deities have a bunch of listings.  If you're trying to decide what you want, the only important things are a single Calling (which will kick in during Origin) and a single Purview (which you'll get access to at Hero).  As Hairy pointed out, you'll also get access to a Pantheon Specific Purview at Hero, such as the Aesir being tied to Fate, the Tuatha de Denaan getting Geasa, the Theoi being able to shapeshift, and so on, so if you're planning to read ahead, you can check those.  However, at Hero, mechanically, the only things that matter are a single Calling, a single Purview, and the Pantheon, so don't be too worried about picking the right one.

To that end, if a particular deity or mythic figure has always piqued your interest but they aren't listed, it's easy to throw them together for a parent.  One of the example characters, page 86, is explicitly made with a deity that isn't listed in order to show that this can be done with little effort.

Now let's get to mechanics.

What WoD calls difficulty, Scion 2E (heretofore called S2e) calls target number.  Until you hit Demigod, that target number is 8.  Roll an 8 or a 9, and it's a success.  Roll a 10, and not only is it a success, but you always get to roll again until something stops you.  1s don't subtract, but if you don't have any successes and roll at least a single 1, you still botch.  The text gives abbreviations like "2s" and it means two successes.

Instead of multiple actions, you get Mixed Actions, which means you figure out which of the two dice pools is smaller, roll that one, and divide up the successes as you choose.  Reflexive actions still don't need a roll or a turn or anything, but drawing weapons and such counts as reflexive for this game.

Now, what S2e calls Difficulty is the number of successes you need to complete an action.  Difficulty 5 means you need 5 successes, which, as you realize, is going to be tricky to get by itself even on ten dice. 

Note also that there's no Willpower to spend.  Whenever you fail or botch, you get something called Momentum.  This is a game effect which pools up and can be spent for things like activating special powers or giving you extra dice.  Normally there's a pool of Momentum equal to double the number of players, but I'm giving everyone a personal Momentum pool in Origin that starts at 1 and can go as high as 3.  A botch gives two extra points.

Enhancements are going to help with high Difficulty.  When you have an Enhancement (either due to circumstances, equipment, teamwork, or whatever), you get its number as successes if you have at least one success rolled on the dice.  Thus, it's still very easy to fail, or even botch.  (Beowulf lost his swimming match to Breca because of the north wind and sea monsters attacking at the worst time.)  If you see 1e in the text, it means a level 1 Enhancement.

Complications are the opposite, artificial difficulty additions that need to be bought off.  Maybe the whole area is on fire and that makes everything harder.  1c means a level 1 Complication, where you need to spend one more success (or Enhancement) to negate it.  Sometimes it says what happens if you don't buy it off; in the case of everything being on fire, if you can't pay that extra success, you take damage.

Conditions are basically long-term status effects, such as being drunk, and can give Enhancements or Complications as appropriate.  They can also be Persistent Conditions, where it's just a permanent part of your life, like how Kitsune (when they reach Hero) will always have a tail.  If a Condition makes you fail, you get an extra point of Momentum.

Scale is when things are so drastically unbalanced that it's easier to provide a game feature than to add in a buttload of dice.  When you're racing someone but one person has a car, or when an ordinary-sized person fights a giant, Scale comes into effect.  Know it exists but don't worry too much about the mechanics for now.

Now, for creating characters: Ignore Deeds because I'm not using them.

I'm giving flat Attributes of 8/6/4, so don't worry about Favored Approaches.  Note that you don't have Attributes like Perception and Wits and instead have ones like Cunning and Composure.  The idea for them was to have Mental/Physical/Social, but to also have Force (pushing your way through like Strength), Finesse (finangling/tricking your way through like Manipulation), and Resilience (persevering your way through like Stamina).  Cunning is kind of a combination of Perception and Wits, Might is Strength, Intellect is Intelligence, and Resolve and Composure are effectively Willpower, but whether the willpower needed is Mental (such as focusing yourself through determination) or Social (such as submitting to fear in the face of danger).

Skills start on page 58, but you don't get something like 13/9/5.

Paths are a brand new mechanic which basically goes over your childhood (Origin Path), what would normally be your occupation and part to play in society (Role Path), and how you're connected to the supernatural (Pantheon Path).  So, your Origin might be that you've been born into a life of privilege, or passed around the foster care system, or that you were a cat that Bastet transformed into a person.  Ordinarily, your Role might be doctor, or military, or the like, but since you're a freshman in college, it affects the options there.  (You still get the usual skill points, but even if you have all the training of a Ph. D., you haven't technically gone through the classes and gotten the certifications yet.)  Finally, your Pantheon Path is something like "Child of Shango."  Examples for Origin Paths and Role Paths start on page 100, but Pantheon Paths don't have much.

For each Role, you get three skills.  You can customize the Origin and Role Paths a bit in this regard, but please let me know what you're setting up so that I can follow along and plan accordingly.  Each Pantheon Path has two skills already locked in (the third can be whatever you want), and that would be on the chart on page 95, but the Kami listing is wrong.  (Kami get Culture and Persuasion, as listed everywhere else.  Tuatha de Denaan, listed directly below on page 95, get the listed Close Combat and Culture.)

When you know which Roles give which three Skills, choose them as Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary.  Primary gets 3 points, Secondary gets 2 points, and Tertiary get 1 point.  Note that Paths also give Connections, which is basically your starting equipment, people you know, and so on.  If you grew up in the woods, for example, it'd make perfect sense that you always carry a survival kit with you when traveling in the wilderness, and maybe you know a park ranger who you can call up to get advice.

Specialties come at 3 dots instead of 4, but (in my game) they give a level 1 Enhancement to any pertinent roll using those Specialties, even in other Skills.  (RAW they only give it in other Skills and not the one you use, but I'm thinking/hoping that was just an error on the part of the writers, because that's idiotic.)  Failing a roll using a Specialty gives an extra point of Momentum.

I'll let you read through Calling and Knacks yourself since there's a lot there.  Basically, you get one dot of a Calling from one of the three your divine parent have, and you pick a Knack (a preternatural power or advantage) from the list starting on page 105 and ending on page 113.  Note that the first four Knacks can be picked up by anyone, but I'm not allowing Scent the Divine at Origin and will give it to everyone for free at Hero, so don't take that one.

Your Defense is equal to the highest rating of Stamina, Resolve, or Composure.  You have a number of Bruised health levels equal to half your Stamina (round up), one Injured, and one Maimed.  Then you get five extra Skill points, an extra Attribute point, and either you can get two extra Knacks or four points of Birthrights, though you can only use one Knack at a time (but you can swap them around reflexively).  (Technically you can use a Knack for each Calling dot, but that's one at Origin.)

If you have Hero and want help with Birthrights, let me know.  The four listings with easy examples of their nature would be Creature (like a Pegasus, but more likely a cat or bird or something who seems far more intelligent than normal and is incredibly loyal), Followers (a sidekick or servant like Batman's Alfred or Robin), Guide (above and beyond the Origin Path mentors, someone who has taught you special supernatural tricks, like maybe a fortune-teller who taught you to read the future), and Relics (physical mystical objects like Zeus' thunderbolt, Mjolnir, even a particular constellation you can see in the sky if that fits your pantheon).  At this level, it's harder to justify them when you probably don't really know your nature, and you're going to get seven points of them anyway when you get your Visitation (which is when your divine parent, or one of their servants or something, comes and ignites your latent divine power to make you a Hero).

If you have all that, make sure you look into Stunts (starting on page 67) and Twists of Fate (starting on page 68 and written up again on page 99).

Again, there's a LOT there, but this is me trying to condense multiple books down to give you enough to explain the game.  More questions are very welcome and I can do whatever else, and when everyone tells me if they want Discord, it may make it easier to explain things.

Pumpkin Seeds, I should ask if you have Discord.  If you do, I'm pretty sure everyone does, so I can set things up.

[AndyZ]

So that's another if you'll have me Andy and you know..deal with my not knowing anything.

Definitely.  I’ll also let you know that it helps that we’re starting at Origin and not Hero, because Legend provides a whole new level of complexity and things you can do.

If you have Origin and not Hero, my suggestion is to start out on page 170, look for a deity you recognize and would be interested in playing a child of (and if they don’t actually have children, we’ll figure something out), as well as one of the Callings that you would like your character to follow (Leader is taken.)  The more mundane stuff you figure out and suggest, the easier it’ll be to tell you how to make it a character; I’d actually prefer to talk with folks and flesh out sheets in tandem rather than having complete sheets given to me where I have to go back, figure things out, and give input after the fact.

[Crensler]

It lives?  IT LIVES!  WOO!

[AndyZ]

It lives?  IT LIVES!  WOO!

There’s a part from one of the Evil Dead movies where one of the Deadites screams, “We live!  We live still!”  I can neither find it as a YouTube clip nor as a GIF.  The Internet has failed me.

[Hexed]

Evil dead movies are hilarious n I think I remember that. Army of darkness perhaps?

In game how well does the crafter or occultism calling play? Might have gotten the names wrong there.

Hephaestus was a possible father.

[AndyZ]

Evil dead movies are hilarious n I think I remember that. Army of darkness perhaps?

In game how well does the crafter or occultism calling play? Might have gotten the names wrong there.

Hephaestus was a possible father.

Creator and Sage.  And that’s the nice thing about having a university that hasn’t been fully fleshed out yet.  If you want your Role Path to give you access to the metalworking area in shop class, I’m totally good with that.  Same if you prefer technology, woodworking, whatever.

I’m also very good with the Sage figuring everything out faster than the others, just because knowing things is what they do.

[evilnerf]

Somehow we've ended up on very different wavelengths.  Let me start over and give some book citations.

Now, maybe this is another place where you might try to make an argument, but my understanding is that you can't attack multiple non-trivial characters in a single turn.  If you could, you'd either be able to attack multiple times per turn, or you wouldn't need an explicit rule for killing multiple trivial characters.

(It also makes sense when you think about it.  There'd be no real reason not to attack multiple enemies since mixed actions tend to be balanced by using the lower pool, but with the same pool, there's no disadvantage.)

When I mentioned the crescent blade, I was pointing out the Enhancement for trivial characters, not the Knack, the weapon itself, or anything else about it.  There's (annoyingly) no way to know how the Knacks are balanced for how many points unless you can take the entire weapon apart via the stats and flaws.  (Scion Companion did this eventually for 1e.  Hopefully they do so later.)  However, Enhancements itself are easy to point out as what the developers intended and balanced, with "trivial characters" being one of them.

Okay fair enough.  I see what you're saying now.  How about this:

I give it the the shockwave tag (4 dots) but also give it the flaw "The Shockwave can be used once per scene.  After it's used, the ability must be recharged by seeking out a lightning bolt after a storm to reload the shotgun" Which is 2 dots.  I'd also give it the Brutal tag as well.

So the total dots would be:  Brutal & elemental 2 dots.  Shockwave 4 dots.  Flaw 2 dots.  What do you think?

[Athem]

How about a pre-visitation Incarnate Scion of Atalanta? Calling would be either Hunter or Warrior - in Greek mythology, as well as a huntress, she was also a noted wrestler and an actual or potential Argonaut (depending on source).

[Dakkon]

It seems like you've got a lot of interest now, but if you need some more players, I'm always game for Scion too!
Discord works for me. I'd need to mull over what character I'd like to run. If you need someone to bounce mythology ideas off of, I can do that too!

[AndyZ]

Hexed, it occurs to me that I probably didn't answer your question overly well.  Note that the base rules for Crafting are Scion Origin 75-77, but I'll give you a rundown.

Unlike a lot of games where you have to figure out hefty hours of crafting, Scion 2E more or less goes with the idea that your Crafting happens during downtime, so you can still go on adventures and the like.  Now, in Origin, you can't do anything supernatural, and in Hero, you get "lesser mystical tools, like lucky charms or sleep potions."  It suggests a blessed sword that doesn't do extra damage but can cut through rakshasa sorcery.  Demigod is where you get Relics and such.  Of course, a good Storyguide (what Scion calls a GM) is going to make sure you keep getting to do cool stuff.

With the Tier of Origin 1, Hero 2, Demigod 3, God 4, with that number being X, you'll make an item of X via performing X milestones, some of which will be unrolled, but with the rolled ones being of X difficulty.  For example, if you want a Horn that can summon aid at Demigod level, maybe you kill a minotaur and get its horn, then carve it out into the proper shape with a roll, and finally get the blessing of Heimdall put upon it.  Beyond that X, there's no hard and fast rules for making stuff, only coming up with stories on how these cool things were created, which you're welcome to suggest.

Note that there's no explicit Crafting Skill, only whatever Skill seems the closest and makes the most sense.  Swords will use Close Combat and guns will use Firearms, and Survival tends to be the default for working with animal materials, but there's a lot of wiggle room if you want to try to argue things like Culture, Occult, and so on.

I also wanted to say as a Scion of Hephaestus, if you want to have some sort of Persistent Condition with your legs, it's doable, and while it'll make things harder in some ways, it can likewise provide Momentum.  By the same token, it's not really politically correct to try to get such things "fixed," but Nuada Airgetlam is known for having a new arm made of silver at one point in his mythos, even as Odin and Tyr retain their missing eye and hand and stick to prosthetics.  It's not something you have to do; I ask because it's something you can do if it's something you want to do.

Finally, I want to leave it up to you if Hephaestus and Aphrodite have any sort of open relationship thing going regarding creating new Scions.  Maybe Aphrodite wants some degree of revenge the way Hera despises Zeus' Scions; maybe the two of them worked something out.  It's your call.

Okay fair enough.  I see what you're saying now.  How about this:

I give it the the shockwave tag (4 dots) but also give it the flaw "The Shockwave can be used once per scene.  After it's used, the ability must be recharged by seeking out a lightning bolt after a storm to reload the shotgun" Which is 2 dots.  I'd also give it the Brutal tag as well.

So the total dots would be:  Brutal & elemental 2 dots.  Shockwave 4 dots.  Flaw 2 dots.  What do you think?

Normally, I'm not overly knowledgeable about Flaws and how to balance the ones that aren't listed, but I feel like everything there balances very well.  Assuming you have several hours of downtime, finding another lightning bolt is something I think you can say that you just do without rolling, though sometimes you'll have to go to another island in Hawaii or get the ferry to carry you around to a post-storm sea.  (Sometimes I may come up with stories here, and I'll let you know if I get ideas, but not every time.)

How about a pre-visitation Incarnate Scion of Atalanta? Calling would be either Hunter or Warrior - in Greek mythology, as well as a huntress, she was also a noted wrestler and an actual or potential Argonaut (depending on source).

Being able to outwrestle a bear sounds like Epic Strength, and being really fast Epic Dexterity, so there's certainly some possibilities there for Purviews when we reach that point.  (You can certainly suggest others also.)  You're free either to claim either Hunter or Warrior or leave it open so that when one person claims one, you have the other.

I don't know as much about Incarnations, but that just means there's more for me to read.

It seems like you've got a lot of interest now, but if you need some more players, I'm always game for Scion too!
Discord works for me. I'd need to mull over what character I'd like to run. If you need someone to bounce mythology ideas off of, I can do that too!

You're certainly still welcome.  It looks like things are properly kicking off for interest, but I'm not setting a limit of how many people I take at start, just of which Callings are open.  I've seen far too many games where attrition has people vanish, and the hope is that I'll get a pretty huge set of people at the start and then it'll sift down into a solid group that can be Heroes.

[Dakkon]

You're certainly still welcome.  It looks like things are properly kicking off for interest, but I'm not setting a limit of how many people I take at start, just of which Callings are open.  I've seen far too many games where attrition has people vanish, and the hope is that I'll get a pretty huge set of people at the start and then it'll sift down into a solid group that can be Heroes.

Huh, that's a clever idea. I might steal that if I run a game again. Lord knows I've been on both the giving and receiving end of it. I'll put some thought into my concept.

[evilnerf]

Normally, I'm not overly knowledgeable about Flaws and how to balance the ones that aren't listed, but I feel like everything there balances very well.  Assuming you have several hours of downtime, finding another lightning bolt is something I think you can say that you just do without rolling, though sometimes you'll have to go to another island in Hawaii or get the ferry to carry you around to a post-storm sea.  (Sometimes I may come up with stories here, and I'll let you know if I get ideas, but not every time.)

Okay great.  Updated it.

I don't know as much about Incarnations, but that just means there's more for me to read.

Incarnates are basically newborn re-incarnations of gods.  They are, for all intents and purposes, that God reborn on earth.  They don't have all the powers (at least at first) and maybe as similar or as different from the original version of the god as they wish.

[AndyZ]

Huh, that's a clever idea. I might steal that if I run a game again. Lord knows I've been on both the giving and receiving end of it.

I have no idea how well it'd work in most games, especially since you could very well usually end up with a whole bunch of one type of character and not nearly enough of another kind.  The entire idea, though, is to leave things as pretty sandbox at the initial run, and then make sure the remainders are a cohesive unit when it turns into running actual adventures.  To that end, some people may want to swap concepts before the new group gels together; I'd say to let them, and make sure that everything the old character had can be converted over in some way to the new character.  (XP, Gold, convert treasures to something useful to the new character, etc.)

Here in Scion, I'm also having a personal Momentum pool for Origin, starting with one point already filled and capping at three, but I plant to congeal it back to the standard team pool when people hit Hero.  With a mob of people, you're either looking at a mess of trying to get permission to use Momentum, or allowing people to just state it and then having someone abuse it (the old tragedy of the commons problem).  I suggest the same for anything communal while the game is primarily sandbox.

Okay great.  Updated it.

Incarnates are basically newborn re-incarnations of gods.  They are, for all intents and purposes, that God reborn on earth.  They don't have all the powers (at least at first) and maybe as similar or as different from the original version of the god as they wish.

Let me clarify that I know what Incarnates are, and realize the mechanics won't be that different, but haven't read up yet on the specifics of what changes and all such.  I intend to correct that shortly.

[Pumpkin Seeds]

I do have Discord if that helps.

[AndyZ]

Then I think everyone has it.  If anyone doesn’t have it and doesn’t want it, please tell me.

https://discord.gg/KvpCHGy3

[AndyZ]

There’s a couple other House Rule things I’m looking at.  For those who don’t know the system well, don’t feel you need to chime in here, but I wanted to let people know.

One, when transitioning from Origin to Hero, the default rules seem to penalize people who buy Knacks and Birthrights to some degree.  Rest assured that I’ll be fixing that; either you can get the full amount of stuff you’re owed or XP will be refunded.

Second, when checking through the rules, they recommended when using Personal Momentum that the cap be set at 12.  This seems a little insane when the plan is to combine it back to communal again, but I need to figure out the sweet spot.  Suggestions welcome, and know that I’ll probably raise the personal pool cap and then try to figure out how to bring it back down to normal in a situation where everyone may have a huge pool in order to add all the Momentum together for communal.

[evilnerf]

1)  How do you think it penalizes you? 

2)  I've never used the personal momentum in any of the games I've been a part of.  Group Momentum has always served us just fine and it's limited to 6.  Honestly, Momentum is designed to come and go easily, so it doesn't really matter if the limit is high or low because there should be a constant spending of momentum.

If you do a group pool, you might want to change how you get momentum.  Per the RAW, momentum is gained when you A) Fail a roll, or B) make the story harder because you're playing into a condition or quality of your character.  If you're using a personal momentum pool, you will gain momentum much much much slower because you will only get momentum when you personally fail, rather then when anyone does.

[AndyZ]

1)  How do you think it penalizes you? 

For example, if you buy up Knacks with XP during Origin, and then get your Visitation, you might well already know more than five Knacks and not be allowed to take more.

Choose additional Knacks, as described in Step 5. If your pre-Visitation Scion already knows more than five Knacks (except for ones added in Finishing Touches), don’t take any additional Knacks.

I can only guess what's up with this, and maybe it wouldn't come up that often, but it feels like a situation where one person would be significantly dicked over on XP and not others.  In such a situation, I'd either want to make sure that the person either did get to take more Knacks, or got commensurate XP.

2)  I've never used the personal momentum in any of the games I've been a part of.  Group Momentum has always served us just fine and it's limited to 6.  Honestly, Momentum is designed to come and go easily, so it doesn't really matter if the limit is high or low because there should be a constant spending of momentum.

If you do a group pool, you might want to change how you get momentum.  Per the RAW, momentum is gained when you A) Fail a roll, or B) make the story harder because you're playing into a condition or quality of your character.  If you're using a personal momentum pool, you will gain momentum much much much slower because you will only get momentum when you personally fail, rather then when anyone does.

Remember, though: the same amount of Momentum will be generated, just split up among everyone's pools, and the amount being spent from each pool is just what that individual spends.

Thinking about it, just having someone botch when they have a spec can get 4 Momentum, so having a cap of 3 seems unreasonable, but if I try to go from where every player has 12 to a group pool of Players*3, it'd cap out even if it was only 25% of what folks had before, let alone higher.

I have a few ideas on how to handle it; I just haven't decided which I'll go with yet.  Just note that it'll be up for change from what I currently have.

[evilnerf]

For example, if you buy up Knacks with XP during Origin, and then get your Visitation, you might well already know more than five Knacks and not be allowed to take more.

Ah.  I see what you mean now.  For what it's worth, this hasn't been a problem in most games I've been a a part of.  Most Origin level scions have no reason to buy knacks with XP since they can only have one knack active at a time anyway.

Remember, though: the same amount of Momentum will be generated, just split up among everyone's pools, and the amount being spent from each pool is just what that individual spends.

Sure, but it's worth keeping mind that individual players will have less momentum to draw from because they can only draw from their personal pool.  So if Jenny generates a momentum, Steve can't use that momentum.  Steve needs to wait until Steve generates momentum (which could very well be never).

One important aspect of the group momentum pool, IMO is that it gives players a benefit for other players playing to their negative qualities.  If Jenny makes the game a bit harder by playing into their Wounded Complication, they make momentum that anyone can draw upon, so they get a little bit of compensation for the action.  Whereas with an individual momentum, Jenny is the only one who gets the benefit for playing into the complication.

[AndyZ]

Ah.  I see what you mean now.  For what it's worth, this hasn't been a problem in most games I've been a a part of.  Most Origin level scions have no reason to buy knacks with XP since they can only have one knack active at a time anyway.

It may not, but hey…

Sure, but it's worth keeping mind that individual players will have less momentum to draw from because they can only draw from their personal pool.  So if Jenny generates a momentum, Steve can't use that momentum.  Steve needs to wait until Steve generates momentum (which could very well be never).

One important aspect of the group momentum pool, IMO is that it gives players a benefit for other players playing to their negative qualities.  If Jenny makes the game a bit harder by playing into their Wounded Complication, they make momentum that anyone can draw upon, so they get a little bit of compensation for the action.  Whereas with an individual momentum, Jenny is the only one who gets the benefit for playing into the complication.

If folks would rather just start with the group pool, I can leave it in.  I guess it’d even help in that we’d have folks who vanish and leave their Momentum, which isn’t bad for the group.  Maybe I’d set up a request thread so that folks can just vote-post with reactions to let people give okay for its use in Discord.  What do folks think?

[evilnerf]

It may not, but hey…

Hey, if you want to houserule that you will get 5 calling dots at Hero level regardless of how many knacks you have, I don't think that'll break anything.

If folks would rather just start with the group pool, I can leave it in.  I guess it’d even help in that we’d have folks who vanish and leave their Momentum, which isn’t bad for the group.  Maybe I’d set up a request thread so that folks can just vote-post with reactions to let people give okay for its use in Discord.  What do folks think?

I think a group pool would work best.  I don't think a vote or even permission is really necessary, although admittedly I haven't seen it in a PBP environment before so maybe it works differently there.  Personally, I'd be fine with everyone assuming I was always giving permission to any momentum spend.  I never have a problem with folks spending momentum to do fun stuff.  The game tends to work better when there is a constant inflow and outflow of momentum. At least that's been my experience with it.