Coronavirus: Discussion and Information, Part 3

[Lilias]

Staff note:  The thread has been split to keep an active Staffer as the top post.  Please remember Elliquiy's civility rule, as well as the rules of this subforum while posting here. - Oniya



Something to show those who claim that vaccinated people are responsible for new variants. Not that most of them will understand it, but the mathy people among us (looking at you, Oniya) will at least enjoy it.

https://www.quora.com/Can-Covid-19-still-evolve-in-people-who-are-vaccinated-then-pass-it-on-to-someone-who-s-not-been-vaccinated/answer/Mikka-Luster

[Oniya]

I've 'non-mathed' that argument at people. 

See, the reason that we have a rotating flu vaccine every year is also because there are multiple strains of the virus - in common parlance, there's swine flu, avian flu - and a number of different varieties in each.

When humans get vaccinated, the virus peters out very quickly because of the immune response.  Theoretically, you could vaccinate domestic pigs against swine flu - but there are all the wild pigs (at least 30-50 of them! ) that you can't get to, and fuck vaccinating birds.  No chance.  So these critters (and non-immunized humans) provide a place where the virus can chill out and evolve. 

In some situations, an individual might get multiple strains at the same time (this is frequently the case with immunocompromised people).  In such cases, you've got virus genetic material circulating around and blending like a cafe mocha.  What comes out isn't coffee or hot cocoa, but a new thing.  (Only viruses aren't as tasty.)  This new thing is only kinda recognized by the immune system, and if it isn't recognized sufficiently, it thrives and gets transmitted.  And then instead of H1N1, you have H5N1 - or some other reassortment.  It may be more transmissible, it may be more virulent.  It may be less so.  But just like breeding stock on farms, the more variety you have in the parents, the more variety you have in the offspring.  If you can selectively eliminate viable strains (through immunization!), then you cut down on that variety.

[Bezukhov]

Not sure it's the right thread, but - to my knowledge - this is mostly the place where we discuss Covid-related issues. After a really bad spell with delta a little more than a year ago, I'm now dealing with omicron. Luckily enough, it hit me much lighter than its predecessor (word on the street is that this new thing is a tad less evil than delta). I tested positive last Thursday: I received all the paperwork (the medical report and the isolation measure) by mail and, as worried as I was, I felt nonetheless reassured by the way the system worked... or seemed to.

Because I was supposed to receive a daily call by the local healthcare service to monitor my situation and no one ever called. My GP went as far as telling me that, after seven days, I should go to a lab and pay for my test, since "no one is gonna get in touch with you for public testing". And it is not about the money – tests are cheap here – it's just that I feel like the situation is out of control.

But there's worse!

I'm almost done with my seven-day mandatory isolation, though of course I will still need to test negative before seeing the sunlight. "Fun" fact? My green pass is still valid: you scan it, it says I'm good to go! I had to phone them and complain about this! They just gave me an e-mail address, but I never received a reply. I mean, were I to violate my isolation and hit a restaurant, I'd be alright. It's been days since I showed any symptoms, but I could still be contagious – and since we have a nice little bunch of Covid-deniers (or simply plainly irresponsible people) here in Italy, I wonder how many of them are currently out on the street.

It pisses me off. Really.

And since I know we're a rather international community, I'd like to ask: is this happening in your country, as well? Did the authorities lose track of how the situation is evolving?

I know this might sound like some sort of a "six days not seeing a living soul" talking right now, but after these two long years... I don't know, I'm simply depressed, I guess.

[Oniya]

And since I know we're a rather international community, I'd like to ask: is this happening in your country, as well? Did the authorities lose track of how the situation is evolving?

I know this might sound like some sort of a "six days not seeing a living soul" talking right now, but after these two long years... I don't know, I'm simply depressed, I guess.

Well, I'm in America and... yeah...    We're supposed to be getting free N95 masks (2 per person), but when I was at the CVS getting my booster yesterday, they hadn't gotten any word about where or when these things were supposed to be delivered.  I've got a sister who - despite having worked in health care - refuses to get a vaccination because she's 'following the science'. (What science?  Damned if I know.)  She still tries to offer to help my father get back and forth to his chemo appointments, because she's 'off work right now'.  (Dad's fine, and is fully boostered, and my other vaccinated sibs are helping out but really...)

It's frustrating as hell.

[Beorning]

And since I know we're a rather international community, I'd like to ask: is this happening in your country, as well? Did the authorities lose track of how the situation is evolving?

Well, yes. To the extent that "losing track of the situation" doesn't even begin to cover the government's behaviour. I'd say that "Flying the white flag and sticking their heads into sand" would be more accurate.

Some quick facts: Poland has only about 55% or so of the population vaccinated. The total amount of Covid deaths is currently given as over 100 000... in a country with a population under 40 millions. The proportional rate of deaths is a few times higher than, say, in Germany.

Meanwhile, our government still refused to impose another lockdown *or* any kind of serious restrictions for non-vaccinated people. For months, they debated giving the employers some legal means of verying the vaccinations among their employees.. and, eventually, they decided not to do this. Instead, today (yes! today...) they revealed a proposal for an alternative law. Brace yourself, because the proposal is jaw-droppingly stupid:

1. According to the proposed law, an employer will have the right to ask an employee to take a Covid test.
2. If the employee refuses, the employer will be allowed to... take a note of that.
3. If another employee gets sick and suspects they might've been infected at work, that employee can submit a motion to their employer to investigate.
4. If the employer, in the course of the investigation, starts suspecting said employee could've been infected by that other employee that refused to get tested, they will be allowed to notify the regional branch of government.
5. The regional government will make a decision whether the untested employee will have to financially compensate the person who got sick...

Seriously, WHAT???  THAT's what our government proposes, with the tragic numbers I mentioned and the Omicron wave hitting us *right now*

As to why... well, the government's parliamentary majority currently hangs on a thread. And there's a noticeable number of anti-vaxxers among their MPs. So... you know 

[Beorning]

Today, The Lancet released an article on the pandemic situation in Poland:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(22)00159-3/fulltext

So... the situation is so bad that Poland is being discussed in a medical science journal. Thank you, PiS government!

[Oniya]

Kevin Sorbo tried to make an anti-vax tweet.

And failed miserably.

[Bezukhov]

Today, The Lancet released an article on the pandemic situation in Poland:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(22)00159-3/fulltext

So... the situation is so bad that Poland is being discussed in a medical science journal. Thank you, PiS government!

That is crazy! A close friend of mine moved to Poland (to this lovely place called Łódź, more precisely!) and I came over last summer for his wedding. It truly felt as if Covid wasn't a thing in Poland and it took me a couple of days to get used to the whole "meh" feeling about masks and whatnot. I'm not gonna lie: it did feel good, pretending over five long days this thing wasn't happening... is this just happening in Łódź or is it, like, a widespread attitude?

As an (unrelated?) side note: I'm in love with your country and came visiting three times! Lots of lovely people and close friends I made back in my day as an Erasmus student in Denmark, as well as people who quit Italy and moved there for work. Of course, you always stumble on the occasional jerk – this happened pretty much everywhere I travelled to – and the political environment is... ugh!, I'd say, but then again: where it isn't, nowadays? Anyway, can't wait for things to get better and jump on the first plane to Warsaw!

[Lilias]

Kevin Sorbo tried to make an anti-vax tweet.

And failed miserably.

Stonekettle's comment on this was hilarious, as usual.

[Bezukhov]

Kevin Sorbo tried to make an anti-vax tweet.

And failed miserably.

Failed to connect the dots, since Kevin Sorbo was just Hercules for me when I was a kid. And here I am, now, waving my childhood goodbye.

[Oniya]

Failed to connect the dots, since Kevin Sorbo was just Hercules for me when I was a kid. And here I am, now, waving my childhood goodbye.

Iolus and Xena are still class acts.

[Bezukhov]

Iolus and Xena are still class acts.

Oh, Xena = love. Isn't that obvious?  That Kevin Sorbo dude, though... bleah.

[Laughing Hyena]

Why do you think he has the most lousy video game adaptation on the n64? Seriously though that just breaks my heart seeing him pull his pants down on twitter.

[Beorning]

That is crazy! A close friend of mine moved to Poland (to this lovely place called Łódź, more precisely!) and I came over last summer for his wedding. It truly felt as if Covid wasn't a thing in Poland and it took me a couple of days to get used to the whole "meh" feeling about masks and whatnot. I'm not gonna lie: it did feel good, pretending over five long days this thing wasn't happening... is this just happening in Łódź or is it, like, a widespread attitude?

Widespread attitude, unfortunately. I live in Warsaw and I can tell you that, even though masks are compulsory in public transport etc., you can easily spot people ignoring that rule. Even though there are reminders hanging everyone in buses etc. People just ignore the restrictions, institutions rarely enforce them and so on. The results are as that Lancet article describes...

As an (unrelated?) side note: I'm in love with your country and came visiting three times! Lots of lovely people and close friends I made back in my day as an Erasmus student in Denmark, as well as people who quit Italy and moved there for work. Of course, you always stumble on the occasional jerk – this happened pretty much everywhere I travelled to – and the political environment is... ugh!, I'd say, but then again: where it isn't, nowadays? Anyway, can't wait for things to get better and jump on the first plane to Warsaw!

I'm glad to hear it! Although, personally, I'm growing increasingly disillusioned with people here...

[Thufir Hawat]

Today, The Lancet released an article on the pandemic situation in Poland:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(22)00159-3/fulltext

So... the situation is so bad that Poland is being discussed in a medical science journal. Thank you, PiS government!

Man, you have around 100 000 for 40 millions of people.
In Bulgaria, we have over 35 000 deaths for 7 millions of people, with 2,04 millions fully vaccinated (about one third have got boosters, myself included). What is the government doing? Planning to relax the measures! (The supposed "patriotic" party is against the green pass entirely).
Not that so many people are observing them, mind you...situation is much as in Poland.

I suspect people in the Lancet just find us too depressing to actually write about us, and I can't blame them.

[Beorning]

So, uhm...

I caught some sort of bug last week and spent the weekend with headache, sub-fever (37.8 C tops), coughing and a runny nose. I took some standard drugs and things improved enough for me to be able to log in to work on Monday. I'm currently feeling quite normal, just coughing a little.

Still, I took a self-applicated Covid test (of the "antigene" variety, whatever it means) today. And... surprise! A positive. So, I guess I know what the weekend bug was...

As I said, I'm feeling well today. I'm wondering: any info on what could happen next? Any risk of a sudden relapse? What do we know about possible long-term Covid effects for people that didn't get seriously ill?

[stormwyrm]

If you were vaccinated you should be fine. There obviously isn't a lot we know about possible long term effects (how can we know that, when we've not even had the virus circulating in the world population for three years?). Most vaccine breakthrough cases tend to be mild like what you experienced, and unless you have persistent symptoms after recovering (e.g. loss of or distortions in taste and/or smell is a fairly common one, as is unexpected fatigue or weakness) you're probably fine. Relapses are all but unknown except in patients with immune deficiency. If you're really worried, a doctor could tell you more.

[Bezukhov]

So, uhm...

I caught some sort of bug last week and spent the weekend with headache, sub-fever (37.8 C tops), coughing and a runny nose. I took some standard drugs and things improved enough for me to be able to log in to work on Monday. I'm currently feeling quite normal, just coughing a little.

Still, I took a self-applicated Covid test (of the "antigene" variety, whatever it means) today. And... surprise! A positive. So, I guess I know what the weekend bug was...

As I said, I'm feeling well today. I'm wondering: any info on what could happen next? Any risk of a sudden relapse? What do we know about possible long-term Covid effects for people that didn't get seriously ill?

Well, I caught it twice – and I assume the latter was Omicron. I had your very same symptoms and they were gone in 48 hours or so, after which I felt well. The worst I had to suffer was boredom, as under Italian law you are confined for at least a week and anyway until you test negative. It took me a little less than two weeks before that happened. I know a bunch of people (mostly with two jabs) who had persistent symptoms, even after testing negative, but then again I know waaay more who hadn't (often with three, a few times with... none!). The first time I caught Covid, it hit me kind of hard and it took a while for me to recover. This second time, nothing... and I'm a smoker.

[Beorning]

Okay, I wanted to ask: any solid info out there on when it's safe to meet other people after Covid? I'm feeling okay, just coughing a little... what I test positively for Covid tomorrow? Does it mean I shouldn't be meeting other people, as I'm still an infection risk?

[Oniya]

Personally, I'd wait until you're testing negative again, and continue to wear a mask if you're coughing.  I don't know if there are any official guidelines anywhere (especially anything remotely 'global'.)

[stormwyrm]

Okay, I wanted to ask: any solid info out there on when it's safe to meet other people after Covid? I'm feeling okay, just coughing a little... what I test positively for Covid tomorrow? Does it mean I shouldn't be meeting other people, as I'm still an infection risk?

The rule of thumb used in my country is ten days from first onset of symptoms. This was what the local government imposed when I got sick with a mild breakthrough Omicron infection myself last January. I was only ill for a couple of days, so after day 4, I was feeling so well that I wanted to go out and get some exercise but I wasn't permitted to do so.

[Esoterica]

I have been exposed three times, and had no symptoms three times when I was infected. I waited until I tested negative. But I was told so many different things. Two weeks, ten days, five days. The test is probably better than the guidance of the moment. Whatever they changed it too.

[Oniya]

Here's something I never thought I'd see.

*throws Pandemic Bingo Card into the air*

Keith Richards giving good health advice.  (He's talking about how Eric Clapton should stop with the 'vaccine skepticism' and just listen to the doctors.)

[Laughing Hyena]

You know it is getting nuts when Keith Richards is the voice of reason on a health issue.

[Humble Scribe]

A bit like that phase in the 80s when he was fronting anti-drugs campaigns.