Where, oh where has my memory gone. Where, oh where can it be?

[Blinkin]

It's me again margret, betcha don't know what i'm duin'... Pulling out what hair that I have left. here's the problem.

My 8G of ram has about 100M free. You may think that I'm running a lot of stuff at start up, but aside from my screen reder and Windows 10, nothing else is loading.

Back in late November/early December... yeah, weeks ago, I bought a memory expansion module. It was 8g and I did it because my ram had about 100m free out of the original 8G. In the process of installing the new module, we discovered that the second memory slot was bad; when we had anything in the second slot, the laptop would show that the power was on, but nothing was happening. We decided to pull the old memory and install the new module to see what would happen.

When the system started and loaded, the memory usage was only about 55%  of capacity. So, we decided that the old module was defective... hey, the second slot didn't work, so what were the odds, right? After that, the system ran like a dream, it had never ran so well. This laptop is only about a year old, by the way.

Well, now, the memory is again showing that it's running at about 97% of capacity, but literally nothing has fchanged. No updates, no new software, nothing.  Well, antivirus and malware have been updated...

So, anyone have any ideas why it's happening and how to fix it? The latest and greatest antivirus/malware updates says the system is clean and I've made sure to keep my temporary files/cookies cleaned out and defragmenting/scans haven't made a difference. I don't see any point to blowing money that I don't have in updating the memory again when it's probably going to end up in the same state again. So... help?

[Azy]

There are of course people here who could be a lot more helpful than me.  I've picked up a few things by being around computer people.  That being said..... 

Has your laptop been bumped or dropped or anything like that?  You said the slot was bad, and installing a new module seemed to have fixed it.  While I have no idea what a module is, I know that sometimes when you have a bad slot it can be coaxed into working sometimes, but it's very... what's the word?  Particular?  It could stop working again because it doesn't like the way you pressed a button.  Checking your system to see how much memory your system thinks is there should tell you if that's the case or not.   

Have you checked under the hood to see what processes are running?  There are things antivirus doesn't always catch, but it'll show as a running process that you don't recognize and shouldn't be there.  Or perhaps something is sucking up a lot more memory than it should and needs updated?  That's usually the first thing I do when things are being slow so I can see where all the memory is going.

If your laptop is only a year old I wouldn't think you would have a bad slot in the first place.  8GB of memory isn't a lot for a newer system, but depending on what you're doing with it, your memory usage shouldn't be that high.  I think I have 6GB of memory in my system, and while I can't do much more than browse the web and play solitaire, my average usage when nothing is running is 50%.   

[Blinkin]

Thanks for the response and suggestions.

When I say module, that's what it's called when I boughtit, a "memory Expansion Module." We use to call it a memory card, or stick way back when I could actually do upgrades on my own and had money to do so. It is the right one for the model of computer. What I mean by bad is when we put the card/stick into the second expansion slot, there are only two and Hell used the first one for the original 8G memory. There's a bit of confusion regarding that as Hell states that the system can be increased to a max of 16 G of ram, but most of the sites that sells the thing state that it's suppose to come with 16G and expandable to 32G. Of course, there's suppose to be a CD drive in the system, but this one doesn't have one... I'm assuming that while the model numbers match up, that the drive is part of a new model.

Anyway, There are a lot of stuff running in the background, but I have no idea what most of it is. Something like 130 processes. I do see a lot of multiples of things, like AVG; there's 6 processes in a row that just say AVG. I also found McAffy's system manager (the first thing I did when I found McAffy on the thing was uninstall it. Even though it's all gone, I can't get rid of this last thing). I also have Malware Byte's Assistant Tray in there, but I can't get rid of it either.

I can't make the task manager show me what's using how much memory If someone can tell me how to do that, I would... well, I don't know what i would do, but grateful would top the list.

Upgrades. Here [i[is[/i] a problem and everything I find on the web to resolve it hasn't worked.

I finally got the system to update back in September )It wouldn't even think of checking for updates, never mind actually run them.). After that, when the October update came out, I downloaded it, ran it and it said update 100% complete, but when I restarted, or just started the computer, it always got hung up around 35% and had to revert to it's previous settings. It also deleted my speaker drivers and without sound, this thing is just a big paperweight. End of the sob story is that it always took nearly an hour to go through all of that just to check email. When I updated the memory, I tried to run it again, but wouldn't run at all. When November's update came out, it downloaded, but says that my system is missing security/quality updates.  So, it's stuck with September's update until I can figure out how to fix that little nugget of joy. The main reason for the expansion module was to give the system enough memory to do the updates.

Under Task Manager, it shows 7.91G of memory, of which, 7.86G is being used. So, I'm assuming that it's showing that the memory is there.

If I could be sure what was what in processes, I would happily try totrim that down, but this idiot hasn't got a clue what 90% of it does.

[Azy]

The Task Manager should be showing what everything is using if it's showing you what is running.  I'm not sure what everything is either, but things like Microsoft Store and Office can be closed out, that I know.  Antivirus processes usually won't go away.  Sometimes if I need to cut down on memory usage I turn off one or two run time broker things, the higher ones.  I would yell at who you bought that thing from.  I used to check it often when I was still trying to play simple games, so if I see anything taking up a lot more memory than it usually does I shut it down.  If it's important it comes back and is what it should be.   

[TheTech]

So like your cell phone and tablets... if you keep your computer running for long periods of time without restarting, the RAM can fill up. Restarting tends to remove that memory that sticks around and doesnt clean out. There are some third party programs that clean it up though. 8gb of ram should be more than enough for most every day use. The slot being bad says there might be other things wrong on the motherboard though.

[Psi]

Something is screwy in the state of Denmark here.   I am a little under the influence of wine at the moment so if something doesn’t make sense - blame the grape

Can you post the model of your laptop so I can look at its specs - most laptops these days don’t come with CD/DVD drives.

8 GB should be more than enough, but I think the first concern I have is the fact that you have AVG / McAfee and Malware Bytes all running at once.

If you have multiple residents (I.e. running at the same time) anti virus software you are getting a race condition occur.

every time you open a file, AVG says let me check that file before it’s opened.   But then McAfee detects AVG opening the file and says no let me check that file.   AVG then detects McAfee opening the file and so on.   This will dramatically impact the performance of your computer,

If you are running windows 10, and as you have screen reader software installed I would consider taking it back to basics - uninstalling all AVG, McAfee and Malware Bytes and letting Windows Defender (the in built antivirus start and run a full scan).   if you have paid for any of the above however, I would keep that version.     malware Bytes does something slightly differently but still runs resident in the system.

Next I would be trying to work out what process is using all the RAM by sorting the task manager by the ram usage column and then investigating that process name.   I am not surprised by the number of processes running however,

Another thing to consider (without knowing the model of your laptop - can someone interrupt the startup sequence and run its internal diagnostics?    this is usually available in Dell HP or Lenovo laptops.

[Blinkin]

*sighs* I just wrote out a long post trying to answer the questions, and the damned thing froze up before I could hit post.  Which is why my posting rate is so pethically low on e; I have a lot of trouble posting more than one post before shutting the thing down.

I've tried to deal with hell directly, but since I'm blind and getting anyone sited over to help me with these things, I can't give them the holy graille, the secret handshake, the secret password, the serial number or anything else, so they hang up on me... fuck Dell and their "support" departments.

The laptop is a Dell Inspiron 3593. The technical  details on the Hell site aren't an exact match, for reasons beyond my understanding, but the really iportant items are the same.

I'm actually only running AVG. Malware Bytes is on the system, but it's disabled in an attempt to save ram and is only active when I do an actual scan. Mcaffies isn't even onn the system, except for that one process in the task manager. So, all that is active is Windows Defender and AVG. Admittedly, JAWs is a memory hog, but not 8g's worth. As mentioned above, getting someone sighted and the laptop in the same location is hard to do, especially with new strings of Covid popping up every few weeks and everyone's concerned about my suppressed immune system. Hell, I haven't seen any of my siblings in over a yer, nevermind friends. Two of our closest friends tested positive for the new strain Christmas Eve and are in bad shape at the moment and they're dropping like flies at a raid convention at Church the last week or two. So, assistance from a sightling isn't very likely in the short term.

I must be looking at the wrong areas in the task manager, because there aren't any percental numbers next to process, except for CPU (20%) and memory (86%). BTW, I was wrong on the number of processes, it's not 130ish, but 193.

[Psi]

Ok, I am not surprised the specifications on the Dell website are not exactly the same, as the laptop has multiple options in how it could be configured - you only get the correct ones when you enter the serial number.

If you are comfortable with using a command prompt or powershell - both should work with your screen reader as they are text based, then I can give you the commands to get the serial number.

If you do have a chance for someone sighted to look at it, tapping the f12 key on Dell laptops will enter the boot menu and allow you to select hardware diagnostics, but your screen reader will not work in there.  This would at least check the motherboard and solid state drive to see if they are ok, a motherboard pr solid state drive that isn’t working properly can slow things down dramatically regardless of how much memory is in use.

Without knowing how your screen reader is interpreting the task manager, if you are able to bring up the process list and select the memory heading it should sort the list either largest to smallest or vice versa.

When it reads out the process name, the second value it reads should be the memory used.   

Look for the highest values so any memory use in GB or over say 500 MB

Also with shutting it down, try selecting restart from the start menu next time - the shut down command can be configured for fast boot and doesn’t always restart everything.

[TheTech]

Let me point out unless you sub to Malwarebytes, its free and manually run, it doesnt do a watchdog check constantly. Even AVG which i have used, can be disabled for that. I stopped using AVG when it started not letting me edit MW docx's and i had to save as new docs. Anyways, i don't know dell very well, not like macs. MIght want to back up your stuff and factory reset it because those all come with factory reset options installed in a hidden drive most of the time.

[cincinnatus]

Okay, so lets see...

First off, the memory modules for your laptop are called "SODIMMs" (Small Outline Dual In-line Memory Module).  If it ran better with the new 8 gb stick, it may mean that the new one is a better spec.  That also be what caused it to not boot; you might try using a set of matched sticks and see if that works (you can buy what are called "dual channel kits" just for that purpose), or get a single 16GB.  If the memory you got and the memory you already have are different in some ways (like different bank counts), not booting isn't a surprise.  You could also try booting with a single stick in the other slot (and the first empty) before considering the ram slot bad.

A 16 GB single stick is about $60 at New Egg for DDR4-3200.  Note that your laptop won't take more than 16GB (either two 8s or a single 16).

As for running out of memory...just because Windows tells you that you only have so much free doesn't mean you're out.  If the OS isn't using memory, that memory isn't doing you any good; so Microsoft has Windows do a balancing act between using your memory for things like file caches and preloading code versus making sure free and zeroed memory is on hand when a program wants it.  The memory number in system monitor aren't very telling about whether or not you have a memory shortage.

(As an aside, I have a computer with 64 GB of memory; and Windows will happily suck down 15 or more GB just sitting there after some use; simply because it can)

If you want a very in depth look into where your memory is going, you can check out this: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/rammap.  Be warned, there's a lot of technical info going on in there.  If you want to screen shot it running and show me, I'd be happy to see if I spot anything amiss.

You can also try Performance monitor and look for page file usage.  If you see your system using the page file, that is a sure indicator that you're trying to use more memory than you physically have. 

And also, 8 GB is the minimum recommended system memory for JAWS, so it's not a stretch for memory to be tight in your case.

[Psi]

Before I go much further, do you mind if I ask just how vision impaired you are?   If you don't want to answer please just say that.

At this point I have been trying to write instructions that I hope make sense if they are read out audibly via a screen reader or translated to Braille but if you have some visual capability - even if its just areas of the screen it might help us help you.   My experience to date has only been helping those with impaired vision so things like dramatically increasing font size etc, but not loss of vision.   In my context, those with no vision would be getting support via a different channel than that which I normally provide.

I have just checked the requirements as cincinnatus indicated and yeah its 8 GB.    It looks as if they have ramped up their recommended requirements, the earlier ones seemed to list far less based on the PDF manual, although that also referenced Windows XP indicating that the manual may be significantly out of date.

I think he has also hit the nail on the head about the single stick working, but both not working.   Unfortunately I don't know how you are going to resolve this one until you can get someone to read the extremely small print each stick label, even though the connection is the same, they can operate at different speeds and need to match.    Without knowing if your laptop has a discrete graphics card ( Understandably not a concern for you, but if it does then it supports memory having speeds of both 2666 MHZ and 3200 MHZ, and if the sticks are different it would explain why the new stick worked faster initially)

It is possible that what you are now running into is a combination of updated software using more memory than previously, and an updated OS that is also using more memory than previously and now you are hitting a limit.   Unfortunately with Windows 10, the way the update process works is that it will offer major upgrades, as an update - one that normally takes an hour to a couple of hours, and these get released twice a year usually around march / April and September / October.

If you hit the windows key, and hit the r key  (or click start and type run) you should get the run dialog up.    Type in winver and hit enter

Can you tell us the Windows Version - this should be the where it says Version 1909 or Version 20H2 etc just before it starts referencing a build number, about 2-3 lines into the dialog box.    The 19 or 20 refers to the year that version of windows was released.    If its saying 1909 or similar, its possible the update failing is a major update which would need more storage.

If you can - go to My Computer or File Explorer - look at your C Drive - how much space / storage is free?   I am looking at the Windows Update path here and why they are failing.    This might be storage related, and if you are having memory issues at the same time, your computer is going to be trying to either update or roll back an update every single time it restarts.   If it has less than a quarter of its storage free then there may be a concern -I tend to run into this on laptops that only have 64 or 128 GB but not larger drives unless someone is filling the drive up with other content.

[Blinkin]

Hi Guys:

Apologies for going silent the last week or so. Continuing computer problems and a sick wife… hell, everyone that I know is down with this new strain, so posting has had to take a back seat for a bit. This is actually my 5th attempt to respond to the above post and this time, I’m trying to do it off line and hope that constant saving might get me through it this time.

quote author=Psi link=topic=338802.msg16073401#msg16073401 date=1641116454]
Before I go much further, do you mind if I ask just how vision impaired you are?   If you don't want to answer please just say that.

At this point I have been trying to write instructions that I hope make sense if they are read out audibly via a screen reader or translated to Braille but if you have some visual capability - even if its just areas of the screen it might help us help you.   My experience to date has only been helping those with impaired vision so things like dramatically increasing font size etc, but not loss of vision.   In my context, those with no vision would be getting support via a different channel than that which I normally provide.

I don’t have any problem answering the question, and it may have a not insignificant bearing on the information provided. You have, however, been pretty clear overall and I haven’t had too much trouble following you. Part of  the issue is that my screen reader, particularly in areas like settings and menu opened windows doesn’t actually read everything on the screen. I know, it makes sooooo much sense, but it’ll actually skip buttons and links so that I don’t know that it’s skipping until I have it read top to bottom and it MIGHT show the button. I can’t press it in that mode and tabbing/navigating through the page will never find it. I think that this may be the cause for me not seeing some data that everyone says is right there on the screen, but I’m not seeing it, such as what’s using how much of the memory. The only two percentages that I’ve ever found has been CPU, which sits around 13% and memory usage. At startup, right after windows pops up, that number is between 47 and 51%. It increases quickly to around 95% soon after. The total memory seems to be 7.74G.

Back to answering the question. I’m what is termed a total; No vision at all, which is actually fairly rare, most people have some light perception or can detect motion when a hand is waved before the eyes.

quote author=Psi link=topic=338802.msg16073401#msg16073401 date=1641116454]
I have just checked the requirements as cincinnatus indicated and yeah its 8 GB.    It looks as if they have ramped up their recommended requirements, the earlier ones seemed to list far less based on the PDF manual, although that also referenced Windows XP indicating that the manual may be significantly out of date.

I think he has also hit the nail on the head about the single stick working, but both not working.   Unfortunately I don't know how you are going to resolve this one until you can get someone to read the extremely small print each stick label, even though the connection is the same, they can operate at different speeds and need to match.    Without knowing if your laptop has a discrete graphics card ( Understandably not a concern for you, but if it does then it supports memory having speeds of both 2666 MHZ and 3200 MHZ, and if the sticks are different it would explain why the new stick worked faster initially)

Ah ha, This may be a serious part of the problem. In all honesty, I have no idea if this thing has a discrete graphics card or not. It was an extremely minor concern when I got the thing and didn’t even look to see. I really don’t know how  to check this on my own. I did get a 2666 stick to upgrade with and it may have had a 3200 stick already installed. So, another 2660 may work in the second slot. That may resolve the problem, or provide a short term solution of the issue and I can try to find another solution. I’ll have to wait until I can save my pennies an get one though.

quote author=Psi link=topic=338802.msg16073401#msg16073401 date=1641116454]

It is possible that what you are now running into is a combination osoftware using more memory than previously, and an updated OS that is also using more memory than previously and now you are hitting a limit.   Unfortunately with Windows 10, the way the update process works is that it will offer major upgrades, as an update - one that normally takes an hour to a couple of hours, and these get released twice a year usually around march / April and September / October.

If you hit the windows key, and hit the r key  (or click start and type run) you should get the run dialog up.    Type in winver and hit enter

Can you tell us the Windows Version - this should be the where it says Version 1909 or Version 20H2 etc just before it starts referencing a build number, about 2-3 lines into the dialog box.    The 19 or 20 refers to the year that version of windows was released.    If its saying 1909 or similar, its possible the update failing is a major update which would need more storage.

Version 20H1 (OS 1943.1165)

quote author=Psi link=topic=338802.msg16073401#msg16073401 date=1641116454]
If you can - go to My Computer or File Explorer - look at your C Drive - how much space / storage is free?   I am looking at the Windows Update path here and why they are failing.    This might be storage related, and if you are having memory issues at the same time, your computer is going to be trying to either update or roll back an update every single time it restarts.   If it has less than a quarter of its storage free then there may be a concern -I tend to run into this on laptops that only have 64 or 128 GB but not larger drives unless someone is filling the drive up with other content.

Used HD space: 89GB
Free HD Space: 825GB
Total HD space: 913GB

It would seem that HD space shouldn’t be an issue.

I hope that all of this helps to clarify the problem.

[Blinkin]

Hi Guys,

Thanks to everyone who has tried to help me on this issue. I think that the general direction that I need to go is to get the system updated and more of the right ram stick.

Now, there is another , even more serious issue, please, please help me here.

Last Saturday, I started getting warnings from Hell System Support that my hard drive is failing. I'll be blunt about this, I have nothing in the bank, no credit cards with money on them, nothing and it'll probably be march before I can buy a new hard drive.

So, I need to either nurse or fix the current hard drive until I can manage that.

I've looked on line for solutions to my "Missing security and quality fixes"; finding things from deleting everything in my updat history to some really, really involved instructions from Microsnot, I feel really uncomfortable following a 20 step process that involves things I've never heard of before. I did get the November 2021 update installed via Windows 0 Update assistant, but had to immediately restore the system to yesterday; The update erased my speaker and deleted half of my desktop icons. Including my screen reader, Office 365, antivirus apps and my email server. It was pure hell getting my screen reader to work without a shortcut key or being able to find it in the start menu; hell, I had a hell of a time getting a st of headphones to work with it and the only thing that I could find that actually told me anything was to restore the system. Dell['s solution was to reset the computer... while I didn't have any way to use teh system to do it.

Anyway, it took the november update, but I had to get rid of it again. Still haven't solved the quality updates issue. The post that I found on Microsnot about that issue was 62 post, almost all saying "Missing security and quality fixes" Literally, nothing else and no links that I might look under.

So, if any of this makes sense? Plese help me save this piece of shit.

[Vekseid]

Can you get to Start -> Quick Assist?

I can try to evaluate your machine remotely.

[Blinkin]

Yes, I can do that. After the restore, everything is where it's suppose to be.

[Blinkin]

Hello All, Long time no plea's.

I wanted to thank everyone who offered thoughts suggestions and ideas for fixing this POS and keep it running, or hobbling along, rather.

I thought that I would offer all of you an update on the beast, maybe ask a question that doesn't need to be answered.

First, some background. Last Friday , I was rushed to the hospital, I could barely move and my speach was slurred and weak. By the time I got there, I'm told that I was incoherent for several hours. The net result was a mini-stroke, aggrevvated by a bad UTI. To keep me occupied, my wife sent my laptop and cord. it booted really, really slowly, but that wasn't unexpected; I got distracted by a doctor, who finally found me a room after 30 hours in the ER...

Anyway, after that, i watched several episodes of Critical role as entertainment and slept. The laptop was never shut down until I left the hospital... I'm getting to the point, I promise.

When I booted the laptop again, half of my icons, specifically Office 365 and my screen reader, were gone. I freaked, but the system hadn't given me a hard drive failure notice all weekend and the thing ran like it was new, memory stayed at about 65% and it was incredible.

Now, I admit that I'm slow with computers, I'm virtually an idiot when it comes to the things. It took me 2 days, during which time, I thought that Windows had somehow lost half of it's settings and applications... The thing had updated at the hospital, not just one update, but 4 and brought it up to current! After months of frustration, aggrevation and stress over it, the problem all along, apparently, wasn't the laptop, but my ISP. They weren't allowing the download of the full update, so it couldn't install. The first time on another network, and everything's fixed!!!

I did figure out the missing icons, the update set the laptop to touch mode. i turned that off, and my icon's returned... Especially the screen reader so that I could use it again.

I Know, stupid story, but I wanted to share with everyone who tried to help me.

Blinkin

[Vekseid]

I hope the stroke did not do too much damage, but I am glad the situation is resolved. : )

[Blinkin]

Initially, I couldn't stand, I couldn't of picked up a postcard because I was so weak.

When I got to the emergency room, I'm told that I was incoherant and badly slurring my words. I did come out of that and the doctors tell me that I was very lucky; no perceptible physical or mental loss.. although I'm still suffering from dizzy spells

[Oniya]

So, the next time your computer acts sick, you should take it to the doctor? 

(Maybe see if you can borrow a cup of Internet at the local library, since it's a laptop.)

Hope your health continues to improve, and that the Beast also stays healthy!