BESM/OVA/OverArms: Persona 6

[Malkavian]

I'm not sure if you put it in the thread earlier, but did you play any of the Persona games post-3?

I've only played 5, but read some stuff about the earlier games. I believe 3 focused on the antagonist that I wanted to use for P6, but it's been a while so I've forgotten most of it.

[ReijiTabibito]

OK.  I haven't played 5 (and it's been ages since I fired up P3 FES on my tiny little PSP), so I'm mainly invoking P4 when I'm talking here.

A lot of the plot critical information just dumps into the lap of the Investigation Team merely by dint of watching the Midnight Channel and finding out who the next target is.  That whole bit right there, wherein you basically recruit the rest of the party, piece by piece, is Act I of the game. (Okay, with maybe a little of Act II.)

Hanging up the group because they weren't able to reach the necessary information to push the plot forward is every GM's bane.  In that mind, I have potentially a couple of suggestions about how to handle it.

1: follow what Persona 4 did.  Give the players some way to automatically learn whatever it is they need to in order to push forward.  P4 was already mentioned, but the heroes of P3 had SEES and its resources to help figure out which Shadows to target next, and as you're aware, P5's heroes had a list of targets they were all chasing down.

2: if you want to use the dice, give plot relevant information a die size.  I picked this up from playing with the GUMSHOE system, where players learn whatever information they need just by having a rating in a given skills or ability.  Example here, the gang needs to talk to the shopkeeper to get on the track of the next Muse.  He's a little difficult to talk to, so assign him a d8 value.  Anyone that has Charisma at d8 or higher automatically succeeds on the roll.

3: Let players team up together, rolling the same stat to boost the result.  Even with a d12, someone staring down a TN 6 has a 50/50 chance of success or failure.  But if they work together with someone that's got d8 and d6 in the same stat...suddenly that number doesn't look so terrifying.

[Malkavian]

Valid recommendations!

[TheHangedOne]

I love those ideas, too, especially the assisting others (I only skimmed the rules, so may have missed it, but didn't see any sort of 'aid another' rule).

[ReijiTabibito]

There's not a rule for teamwork between players, no.  My guess is that the game designers said 'if the players need help, they have their Anima to fall back on'.  Which is true, but for one, Anima have that pesky AP pool that needs to be watched, and for another, it still doesn't provide any idea how players can help each other.  Also worth pointing out, the game designers in the front disclaimer say that you're free to make up mechanics or change rules if it helps the flow of the game...thusly...

OK.  We have an Assassin; it's actually good the idea of a brain came along, b/c I was thinking of playing a Magician Arcana.  That or...what's the other big caster Arcana?

[Malkavian]

There's not a rule for teamwork between players, no.  My guess is that the game designers said 'if the players need help, they have their Anima to fall back on'.  Which is true, but for one, Anima have that pesky AP pool that needs to be watched, and for another, it still doesn't provide any idea how players can help each other.  Also worth pointing out, the game designers in the front disclaimer say that you're free to make up mechanics or change rules if it helps the flow of the game...thusly...

I imagine it would be possible to simply apply a modifier based upon teamwork, rather than allow an additional Stat to be added to the total; or, if people wanted to add a helper's Stat to the roll, then perhaps doing so without the chance to Crit (whilst still risking a Fumble)? The main thing here would be limiting it to one helper only, since more than two dice would break the system.

OK.  We have an Assassin; it's actually good the idea of a brain came along, b/c I was thinking of playing a Magician Arcana. That or...what's the other big caster Arcana?

I think there were a few... Empress or Priestess come to mind, but I can't recall. It's worth noting that Persona usually associates Arcana with the character personality and social journey, too, which can - but doesn't have to - contribute to why a character is linked to that Arcana.

[ReijiTabibito]

I imagine it would be possible to simply apply a modifier based upon teamwork, rather than allow an additional Stat to be added to the total; or, if people wanted to add a helper's Stat to the roll, then perhaps doing so without the chance to Crit (whilst still risking a Fumble)? The main thing here would be limiting it to one helper only, since more than two dice would break the system.

If you want to add a Stat without rolling the additional die, there's two ways I would handle that.  The one I would go for would be the halfway value of the die itself (4 for a d6, 5 for a d8, 6 for d10, etc), though if you look in the book, the stat blocks of the various samples show a static value of the die assigned to that stat.  Most enemies have a static value, but certain ones (IE, other Anima Users), the book tells you you can use the die or the static value.

I think there were a few... Empress or Priestess come to mind, but I can't recall. It's worth noting that Persona usually associates Arcana with the character personality and social journey, too, which can - but doesn't have to - contribute to why a character is linked to that Arcana.

Having not played Persona in a while, and not necessarily being full-up on the tarot associations in the games, can you explain what you mean by 'social journey'?

[TheHangedOne]

If it'd help, I could dig up the Major Arcana's associations with concepts. For instance, Hayate's Arcana, The Chariot, is associated with war, triumph, vengeance, and divine providence (as in a protective force).

[Malkavian]

Having not played Persona in a while, and not necessarily being full-up on the tarot associations in the games, can you explain what you mean by 'social journey'?

Sure. Here's a quote by the wiki regarding the Priestess:

"Originally named the Popess, portrayed as an old woman with an open book, the Priestess Arcana is a symbol of hidden knowledge or other untapped power, wisdom, female mystery and patience when it appears in tarot readings.

Gameplay-wise, the Personas of the Priestess Arcana are commonly associated with healing and support attributes. Mythological figures of the Priestess Arcana are usually crone archetypes, goddesses of wisdom, witches, female mages or priestess figures themselves.

Individuals associated with the Priestess Arcana are usually quiet, reserved, hardworking and very intelligent. They are often modest and shy, and won't open up to the protagonist until much later in their Social Links as compared with other characters. A recurring theme with Priestess characters is that they have an inferiority complex due to growing under highly exigent family members, as in the cases of Fuuka Yamagishi, Yukiko Amagi and Makoto Niijima."

And another regarding the Chariot:

"Portrayed as a king leading a chariot made up of two differently colored horses (in some cases mythical creatures). The Chariot Arcana is a symbol of victory, conquest, self-assertion, self-confidence, control, war, and command.

Personas of the Chariot Arcana are commonly Personas excelling in Physical-based attacks. They are almost invariably warrior figures or mythological war deities.

Characters who are of the Chariot Arcana are typically very driven individuals, who have a personal goal that they aim to achieve at any cost. It is not uncommon for Chariot characters to be short-tempered or aggressive. Combat-wise, they also tend to focus on physical attacks rather than magic."

[ReijiTabibito]

It's been a short while since I posted here, but I went to the Megami Tensei wiki (looking for Persona Wiki and found this instead), and I think I've identified a handful of Arcana that could be used to represent my character.

There is the Magician, as I have previously noted.

There's the Hierophant - according to the wiki profile, the Hierophant representatives tend to struggle with some issue from their past (such as Dojima from P4 looking for his wife's killer).

There's the Moon - I don't have much for this one, but I remember liking Sandalphon (who has been the ultimate Persona for the Arcana since P3).

And lastly, there's Temperance - characters who are struggling with balance in their life.  (Though this barely edged out The Tower, so I would also consider that.)

Thoughts?

[Malkavian]

I like all of them as options, but Hierophant and Temperance stick out most of all.

[ReijiTabibito]

Here's a question.  How old is everyone in the party thus far?  I have an idea...

[Malkavian]

Akari is a high schooler, which is in-keeping with the series. Doesn't mean everyone else has to be, though.

[TheHangedOne]

Hayate is also a high school senior (17 or 18, depending on when in the year the game will be taking place--I'm tentatively making his birthday January 7th, which coincides with the Oniyo Fire Festival).

[ReijiTabibito]

I was possibly thinking of someone slightly older - college age or maybe mid-20s - for my character.  Someone with a bit of history to them.  Not sure.  Been watching the TV show version of The Crow lately and I think it's been inside my head long enough that I can demand it start paying rent.

[TheHangedOne]

I edited Hayate, since I settled in on his Persona (Xenos) and ability (smiting enemies with lightning). In a more utilitarian purpose, I'm sure Xenos could produce lesser amounts of electricity over a sustained period of time (to power stuff, for instance) rather than just crispy-frying enemies.

[Malkavian]

I edited Hayate, since I settled in on his Persona (Xenos) and ability (smiting enemies with lightning). In a more utilitarian purpose, I'm sure Xenos could produce lesser amounts of electricity over a sustained period of time (to power stuff, for instance) rather than just crispy-frying enemies.

Might be worth having him be able to power small things being his basic ability, and move that up to more potent lightning displays at higher levels?

[TheHangedOne]

Yes, that makes sense. Don't mind me. It's been One Of Those Weeks. *Snugs the Demiurge, and goes to edit.*