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Author Topic: Hatred for the United States  (Read 3433 times)

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Offline VaultTopic starter

Hatred for the United States
« on: February 28, 2009, 03:44:51 PM »
Hello,


I'm new to the forums and still pending approval but already I feel like this community has a wealth of intelligent people. I don't know much about politics or religion but so I wanted to start a discussion about why the USA is hated. I think my views of America are skewed because most of my life I've only heard of how we spend money and resources to help others around the world. I'm guessing that we have earned a lot of the hatred we are getting from helping countries with enemies. I've never really cared much for most of my life but now I'm 26 and starting to grow up a little and look at the world around me. All the talks about Iran and Korea getting nuclear weapons has started to open my eyes.

I know its complex but what do you think the root cause for the United States being hated so much is?

I'm culturally and religiously challenged for the most part but I've always thought either our way of life goes against many of their religious beliefs or that maybe they are jealous of us?


I welcome your thoughts and explanations on this subject and I'm looking forward to being schooled.

BC

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Hatred for the United States
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2009, 03:59:23 PM »
No one likes big brother. -Shrug-

Offline consortium11

Re: Hatred for the United States
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2009, 05:10:03 PM »
To go into everything that leads to hatred of the US would take an age, so I'll effectively bullet-point what I consider the general reasons. As a fairly standard provisio... I don't hate the US etc etc and I don't necessarily agree that any of these are "good" reasons for hatred (if there are such things as good reasons for hatred)

  • Real-politik, notably in Eastern Europe during the late 80's/early 90's and South America
  • Virtual unconditional support and aid for Israel
  • The anti-globalisation movement[
  • Cultural dislike of the mass-consumption and very material lifestyle
  • In addition to the above-mentioned support of Israel, the entire US foreign policy in the middle-east
  • Generally seen as arrogant when it comes to international relations
  • In addition to the cultural dislike seen above, a certain cultural superiority, deserved or undeserved (bible belt, sodomy laws, "rednecks", percieved ignorence
  • Enviromental issues i.e. Kyotot... and you can't really shout at China, Russia and India... or at least shout and expect to be listened to
  • In addition to the above a lot of left-wingers moved into the Environmental movement with the collapse of the USSR (see the founder of Greenpeace's articles and interviews on it), which brings with a pretty anti-US sentiment

I'm sure if I had longer and really sat down and thought about it I could think of more, but those are the main ones. That said, most of the true "hatred" as opposed to dislike comes from areas of the middle east (or those connected to there), South America and possibly Russia(?), all of whom have at least some legitmate reasons for any hatred they carry.

I don't think either the religious beliefs or jealousy arguements really fly that far in and of themselves. as if that were to be the case then many of the European nations with a more liberal social policy and (if you follow the standard indexes, although they can often be argued to be biased) a better standard of living would recieve more hatred then they do get. I'm sure they factor in to an extent, but they're not really the root cause of the issues.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Hatred for the United States
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2009, 05:23:32 PM »
To go into everything that leads to hatred of the US would take an age, so I'll effectively bullet-point what I consider the general reasons. As a fairly standard provisio... I don't hate the US etc etc and I don't necessarily agree that any of these are "good" reasons for hatred (if there are such things as good reasons for hatred)

  • Real-politik, notably in Eastern Europe during the late 80's/early 90's and South America
  • Virtual unconditional support and aid for Israel
  • The anti-globalisation movement[
  • Cultural dislike of the mass-consumption and very material lifestyle
  • In addition to the above-mentioned support of Israel, the entire US foreign policy in the middle-east
  • Generally seen as arrogant when it comes to international relations
  • In addition to the cultural dislike seen above, a certain cultural superiority, deserved or undeserved (bible belt, sodomy laws, "rednecks", percieved ignorence
  • Enviromental issues i.e. Kyotot... and you can't really shout at China, Russia and India... or at least shout and expect to be listened to
  • In addition to the above a lot of left-wingers moved into the Environmental movement with the collapse of the USSR (see the founder of Greenpeace's articles and interviews on it), which brings with a pretty anti-US sentiment

I'm sure if I had longer and really sat down and thought about it I could think of more, but those are the main ones. That said, most of the true "hatred" as opposed to dislike comes from areas of the middle east (or those connected to there), South America and possibly Russia(?), all of whom have at least some legitmate reasons for any hatred they carry.

I don't think either the religious beliefs or jealousy arguements really fly that far in and of themselves. as if that were to be the case then many of the European nations with a more liberal social policy and (if you follow the standard indexes, although they can often be argued to be biased) a better standard of living would recieve more hatred then they do get. I'm sure they factor in to an extent, but they're not really the root cause of the issues.
I can and will shout about China and India, I didn't know Russia was there too. They're using dirty technology and exempt from scorn that's just wrong.

Offline consortium11

Re: Hatred for the United States
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2009, 05:43:01 PM »
Oh, people do shout about it, no doubts.

But lets be honest, how likely are China or India to listen to environmental issues?

Which also leads to the awkward issue of Western nations having to go "well, it was ok for us to become developed using dirty tech, but you can't do it, the vast majority of your population will have to remain in subsistance agriculture" (obviously a huge simplification, but the base of the point remains)

Offline Avi

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Re: Hatred for the United States
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2009, 06:25:58 PM »
In my opinion, the top three reasons that America is so disliked around the world are these:

#1: The ability to use our economy/military to strongarm our way of life onto everyone else (neo-imperialism).
#2: America's insistence that we act as the police constable of the world, which has its roots back in the late 1800s/early 1900s.
#3: Support for Israel.  This seems to be the main source of antagonism from the Middle Eastern nations and those who are of that heritage.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Hatred for the United States
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2009, 07:28:53 PM »
Oh, people do shout about it, no doubts.

But lets be honest, how likely are China or India to listen to environmental issues?

Which also leads to the awkward issue of Western nations having to go "well, it was ok for us to become developed using dirty tech, but you can't do it, the vast majority of your population will have to remain in subsistance agriculture" (obviously a huge simplification, but the base of the point remains)
China and India have X amount time the people in the U.S. There dirty tech use is only proportional to the agrarian. They're polluting more than America by far. 

Offline Nessy

Re: Hatred for the United States
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2009, 10:07:29 PM »
People target the USA for the same reason they target McDonalds and not Burger King. It's easier to to throw dirt at the No. 1 position even if No. 2 is pretty much the same. People who talk about the USA being too commercialized, using too much packaging, etc. etc. often haven't spent much time outside the USA in other developed or developing nations. I spent time in Japan, they are just as commercialized as the USA if not more so in some area. They're major cities are HUGE, and there are often 2 cars for each family there too. So why doesn't Japan get as much mudd flinging, well it's not as much fun and they don't do much with the little amount of military they have so they are less like to step on toes. The USA is the first country to get blame and the first country that gets a call when there is trouble in the world others think needs to be fixed. The USA can never do enough and always does too much.

As for the pollution and population explosions in India and China, the "western" worlds went through a period of high pollution where the world didn't have the technology or the knowledge to do otherwise. The knowledge and technology to avoid those things exist today but there are issues dealing with the expense and issues in regards to who owns the technology and whether or not that information can/should be shared.

The great thing about the USA, and other countries might I had, is it patriotic to take pride in ones country AND it's patriotic to be critical.

Oh and the other thing a lot of people don't realize is the the american population isn't united on any one topic. The last time the USA might be considered united in something was entering WWII and even then, that was not a united front. The population is often deadlocked in a two party system meaning at any given time, maybe half the population disagrees with leading policies which means... when someone says Americans think this or that... it makes no sense, but again, it's always easy to blame someone else.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Hatred for the United States
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2009, 11:24:22 PM »
Because other citizens of other nationsnot so advantaged as America is are jealous. Face it we are oneof the youngest nations over the oldest such as China and India yet is the only superpower standing because of our greatness. Our democracy and the promise that every citizen will have the great pride of calling themselves an American. White, black, asian or whatever your race or gender is your an American and you all hate that.

As for the claims of pollution and the like last time I looked in my nation we are overall clean and have healthy tap water to drink and can breath without toxic clouds likein the great cities in China, even our dirty cities are gems by comparison and we are making improvements every day. We produce all the food we need and can export it to peoples around the world. We are free from the threat of invasion by any other nation or group of nations that has not been the case in the past such as in the 1940's when we were. We are free to think unpopular thoughts, read what we like in the cast majority of cases, free from massive religious strife and even withour flaws I would not want to live anywhere else.

So yes we are hated because other nations are jealous of our nation.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Hatred for the United States
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2009, 12:23:14 AM »
In my opinion, the top three reasons that America is so disliked around the world are these:

#2: America's insistence that we act as the police constable of the world, which has its roots back in the 1940's after WWII


 Fixed. Before WWII, the US was fairly isolationist after the Spanish American war until we were drawn into WWII.

Offline The Overlord

Re: Hatred for the United States
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2009, 01:19:15 AM »
    • Virtual unconditional support and aid for Israel


    This one is going to continue to be a problem so long as we don't change on it. Israel will not continue to exist without US support; or they will exist but only because they had to gas and nuke millions of Arabs who tried to overrun Israel when we pulled out cold turkey on them.

    Being as the US essentially calls the shots on this, we need to ACT like we do and tell Israel there are limits to our generosity. There WILL be a free Palestinian state; the situation will not defuse until this happens.

    I'm going to sound dangerously close to Nazi saying this, but Israel is a twisted irony. They have become the very thing that they sought to bring down 60-odd years ago. I say either they play ball with us or we kick all the fracking Jews out of US borders. No, I'm not taking that back either.


    • The anti-globalisation movement[


    Yeah, this one was just plain stupid.

    • Cultural dislike of the mass-consumption and very material lifestyle


    Here's where I'm going to have to pause and call out the rest of the globe. It isn't the consumption and materialism they dislike; it the fact that WE have it and they DON'T. Almost every other modern culture would have done the same in our boots; this is not saying it's right, but there you have. Get money coming in from 'progress' and look what everyone else has done. The Arabs are building f***ing refrigerated ski slopes in the desert. China wants to out-consume the US in automobiles and Western goods per capita. The wealthy elite in much of the world is sucking up what cash their counties have.

    • In addition to the above-mentioned support of Israel, the entire US foreign policy in the middle-east


    And here we're at a crossroads with a chance to fix it. The Bush administrations were all about securing foreign oil for US tanks; anything else they tell you is bullshit. Blood for oil, and both staining the deserts of Arabia. No wonder we have issues here.

    • Generally seen as arrogant when it comes to international relations


    Far from the only country that's arrogant, but yes we need to take the 2x4 out of our ass as a nation.
    • In addition to the cultural dislike seen above, a certain cultural superiority, deserved or undeserved (bible belt, sodomy laws, "rednecks", percieved ignorence


    The uber-conservative, trailer trash percentage is going to keep giving us a black eye until they're dealt with. If it was up to me, they'd be out on their asses. There wouldn't be just a US history test to get citizenship here, there would also be an annual IQ test to KEEP citizenship. I don't in any way feel we're obligated to retain all of the population if they're hamstringing us as a society.

    • Enviromental issues i.e. Kyotot... and you can't really shout at China, Russia and India... or at least shout and expect to be listened to
    • In addition to the above a lot of left-wingers moved into the Environmental movement with the collapse of the USSR (see the founder of Greenpeace's articles and interviews on it), which brings with a pretty anti-US sentiment


    This is another bad sticking point. The US is going to have to show leadership here to be convincing. How in the hell do you unsign an environmental treaty? I maintain that Bush should be prosecuted as an environmental terrorist.

    Online Silk

    Re: Hatred for the United States
    « Reply #11 on: March 01, 2009, 04:47:18 AM »
    Well i can say from a outside point of veiw, since im from the UK who is constantly being tied down to america by our goverment really does'nt help your reputation over here, the constant friendly fire incidents in the wars from america to british soldiers also do not help.

    I mean you cannot really blame the people losing faith in america when about 30% of British casulties in the wars were caused by american friendly fire (Not that it probally gets advertised over there might do i dunno but when watching the CNN news and alike it never gets a mention or a bottom roller at best. This has brought rise to a new joke that the American flag should be blue on blue.

     http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article422701.ece

    And from our point of veiws over here in europe america is consistantly going against international laws and on more than one occasion worked against the EU (kyoto project ect) which is also putting the UK into a awkward position because who do we support in these matters? USA or EU? were constantly being the rope in a game of tug of war between you guys, which again does not help the image.

    And to quote someone above, nobody is jealous of americas quality of lifestyle, were pissed off that you keep attacking people to keep it.

    And to finish off one of the biggest anoiances for people out of america when concerning america is the undaunted pride most americans have, sorry you are not the greatest thing since sliced bread you only saved us in world war two because you joined in after both sides had hardly anything left to throw at eachother, then charged straight to berlin to get the publicity shots while Canada and coalation forces acctuly went around to different countries to free people from warcamps.

    Offline Cecily

    Re: Hatred for the United States
    « Reply #12 on: March 01, 2009, 09:16:32 AM »
    This is an interesting thread, because I feel like people can say what they feel the reasons why America is disliked by the rest of the world without it becoming a flame war.

    Anyway, many of the reasons that I think the rest of the world dislikes America have been said above, but I'll say what I've noticed. I've lived in Canada for all my life, so that sort of gives me a different view, even if I'm physically very close to the US. I'll try not to list things that are strictly political, but are more behavioral, if that makes sense.

    -This annoying notion that because the US helped in WW2 that somehow means that everyone else in the world has to kiss the US's ass, even if most of the people alive haven't served in that war! It's incredibly irritating to have the "well america saved the whole world so you must kiss our asses" conversation with someone. Yes, I would be very nice to someone who actually served in the war, but just because you happened to be born in the US does not mean that everyone must respect you. This brings me to my next point.

    -Ignorance. I'm not saying that every American is ignorant, but that has been the face of America for eight years to the outside world. The US also has a huge problem with schooling in some areas, and this really doesn't help with the ignorance problem, since many young people are uneducated. It also doesn't help that many people are growing up in areas that are very isolated and don't show someone all different views of the world, or have parents that do not do that. I'm hoping that the general face of the US will change because of Obama, because face it, the rest of the world by far likes him. There's just something about him when I see him in other countries that shows that he really respects what the other world thinks.

    -The blatant arrogance that some people show. So many people have this ridiculous opinion that "oh the rest of the world just hates us because they're jealous of us!" not only is that just stupid, but it's very immature. This isn't high school where you can say to someone who dislikes you "You're just jealous of me!", this is the real world, and honestly, not many people/nobody is jealous of the US. Everyone realizes that the US is a young country that grew very quickly and was successful, but that doesn't mean that they have to be jealous.  ::)

    -Evangelicals. There are fanatic evangelicals pretty much everywhere, but there is a very high concentration of them in the US. Europe and much of the outside Western world in general are very liberal countries, and to see the amount of hate and bigotry spewing from these people and nobody taking action is very surprising. It's ignorant of anyone to think that all Americans are evangelical religious crazies, but when you watch the American news and nobody is saying "these people are absolutely insane and crazy", it is incredibly irritating. I just do not understand how anyone could allow these people to take away rights from others and to be in positions of power.

    Anyway, there are my points. These are not strictly my views, this is just what I have observed from others in Canada, as well from others around the world. :)

    Offline ShrowdedPoet

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    Re: Hatred for the United States
    « Reply #13 on: March 01, 2009, 09:43:49 AM »
    I am an American and I have harbored a dislike for America as a country my entire life.  We are arrogant, ignorant, self-absorded, childish, closed minded, lieing, nosey, assholes!  (as a whole that is)  We have people who are so proud of everything we are and they know nothing of our history.  Our education system is a load of steaming shit.  Our children are getting more ignorant by the day because we don't bother to teach them.  We are so self-absorded that we can't see past our own bulbous nose.  We are like a pissed toddler stomping around crying cause we want the other kids toy!  We are closed minded and won't accept anything outside of our own views, even if the other views are valid or even true.  We lie, about everything.  We're nosey, can't keep our noses out of anyones business.  Gotta help people who don't want help. . .  And royal assholes spitting in the faces of other countries just cause we feel superior. 

    I really don't think jealousy flys. 

    Again, this is as a whole country, not any particular individual.  And these are just my opinions.

    Offline RubySlippers

    Re: Hatred for the United States
    « Reply #14 on: March 01, 2009, 10:15:13 AM »
    Education, that is the parents job not the governments.

    As for being closed minded and hard nosed I'm a conservative libertarian and damned right I am I happen to read the writing of our Founding Fathers and their dream of our nation and what we are doing as a nation in the handing away of that to international interests is sickening.

    And Obama is an idiot that is going to bury this nation and hand over more of our sovereignty unless the conservatives can slow this down, of all ilks.

    Offline Ganam

    Re: Hatred for the United States
    « Reply #15 on: March 01, 2009, 10:22:00 AM »
    I am an American and I have harbored a dislike for America as a country my entire life.  We are arrogant, ignorant, self-absorded, childish, closed minded, lieing, nosey, assholes!  (as a whole that is)  We have people who are so proud of everything we are and they know nothing of our history.  Our education system is a load of steaming shit.  Our children are getting more ignorant by the day because we don't bother to teach them.  We are so self-absorded that we can't see past our own bulbous nose.  We are like a pissed toddler stomping around crying cause we want the other kids toy!  We are closed minded and won't accept anything outside of our own views, even if the other views are valid or even true.  We lie, about everything.  We're nosey, can't keep our noses out of anyones business.  Gotta help people who don't want help. . .  And royal assholes spitting in the faces of other countries just cause we feel superior. 

    I really don't think jealousy flys. 

    Again, this is as a whole country, not any particular individual.  And these are just my opinions.

    You can add 'overcompensators' to that list.

    Any superpower, whether a world or regional one is going to flex their muscles and others will resent it. Plenty of people felt that way about the Soviets, and if you go to Asia, people will react that way to China and to Japan (for events in the past and present) as well.

    This is a North America-centric forum, so we hear the most about the US here.

    Offline Avi

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    Re: Hatred for the United States
    « Reply #16 on: March 01, 2009, 10:29:13 AM »


     Fixed. Before WWII, the US was fairly isolationist after the Spanish American war until we were drawn into WWII.

    Not necessarily.  I've just come off of a good chunk of class time studying World War I and the rest of the 1910s.  Look at Woodrow Wilson. In the World War I years and their immediate aftermath, Wilson was constantly pushing for the United States to take its place on the world stage, act as a leader for the world.  In his address to Congress requesting a declaration of war, Wilson said, "It is a terrible thing to lead this great peaceful people into war.  Our goal is… only the vindication of right… the world must be made safe for democracy."  At that point, the United States pretty much ended its isolationism, even if all the politicians said it still existed.  The U.S. was lending money to all the World War I belligerents, and had a hand in just about every corner of the world.  When the American markets crashed in 1929, they set off a ripple through the rest of their trading partners.  America's international involvement has its roots in World War I.

    Offline Zakharra

    Re: Hatred for the United States
    « Reply #17 on: March 01, 2009, 10:32:20 AM »
      This one is going to continue to be a problem so long as we don't change on it. Israel will not continue to exist without US support; or they will exist but only because they had to gas and nuke millions of Arabs who tried to overrun Israel when we pulled out cold turkey on them.

      Being as the US essentially calls the shots on this, we need to ACT like we do and tell Israel there are limits to our generosity. There WILL be a free Palestinian state; the situation will not defuse until this happens.

      I'm going to sound dangerously close to Nazi saying this, but Israel is a twisted irony. They have become the very thing that they sought to bring down 60-odd years ago. I say either they play ball with us or we kick all the fracking Jews out of US borders. No, I'm not taking that back either.
     .. You mean kick out American citizens because of the religion they follow because of ther actions of a single nation? I'm sorry, but if they do that, I hope you are mistaken as one and kicked out to. That is just plain WRONG. Punishing American Jews because of Israel's mistakes is wrong and misguided. [/list]

    Offline Avi

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    Re: Hatred for the United States
    « Reply #18 on: March 01, 2009, 10:47:10 AM »
       .. You mean kick out American citizens because of the religion they follow because of ther actions of a single nation? I'm sorry, but if they do that, I hope you are mistaken as one and kicked out to. That is just plain WRONG. Punishing American Jews because of Israel's mistakes is wrong and misguided. [/list]

      Agreed.  In doing that, we'd be no better than the Israelis themselves.  That's like kicking out all Russian-Americans in protest for what Russia did in Georgia, or kicking out all Korean-Americans for what Kim Jong Il does. 

      Offline Zakharra

      Re: Hatred for the United States
      « Reply #19 on: March 01, 2009, 11:34:09 AM »

      And to quote someone above, nobody is jealous of americas quality of lifestyle, were pissed off that you keep attacking people to keep it.

       ?? Aside from Afghanistan(which was in responce to 9-11) and Iraq (somewhat questuonable reasoning to go there. The aftermath was blundered a bit too), what other places has the US attacked since the end of WWII?

       
      And to finish off one of the biggest anoiances for people out of america when concerning america is the undaunted pride most americans have, sorry you are not the greatest thing since sliced bread you only saved us in world war two because you joined in after both sides had hardly anything left to throw at eachother, then charged straight to berlin to get the publicity shots while Canada and coalation forces acctuly went around to different countries to free people from warcamps.

       In the Pacific theater, the US bore the brunt of the fighting. In Europe the US poured in a lot of men and equipment. Fighting the Germans  on the ground and air. It wasn't for publisity that we charged to Berlin, but to 1, force the Germans to fight and 2, to prevent the Soviets from overrunning more of the country than they did. The US contributed a lot in Europe. Without the US, Europe wouldn't have been freed. (Not sounding elitist, but stating a fact. No one else had the capacity and ability to arm up and move troops and material at that stage like the US across an ocean nonetheless.)

      Online Silk

      Re: Hatred for the United States
      « Reply #20 on: March 01, 2009, 11:41:24 AM »
      ?? Aside from Afghanistan(which was in responce to 9-11) and Iraq (somewhat questuonable reasoning to go there. The aftermath was blundered a bit too), what other places has the US attacked since the end of WWII?

       
       In the Pacific theater, the US bore the brunt of the fighting. In Europe the US poured in a lot of men and equipment. Fighting the Germans  on the ground and air. It wasn't for publisity that we charged to Berlin, but to 1, force the Germans to fight and 2, to prevent the Soviets from overrunning more of the country than they did. The US contributed a lot in Europe. Without the US, Europe wouldn't have been freed. (Not sounding elitist, but stating a fact. No one else had the capacity and ability to arm up and move troops and material at that stage like the US across an ocean nonetheless.)

      I never said this is my personal beleif, that is just the general assumption of the masses over here.
      « Last Edit: March 01, 2009, 03:47:56 PM by Silk »

      Offline Zakharra

      Re: Hatred for the United States
      « Reply #21 on: March 01, 2009, 11:52:26 AM »
       *nod nod* Understood.  :)

      Offline RubySlippers

      Re: Hatred for the United States
      « Reply #22 on: March 01, 2009, 02:08:12 PM »
      Not necessarily.  I've just come off of a good chunk of class time studying World War I and the rest of the 1910s.  Look at Woodrow Wilson. In the World War I years and their immediate aftermath, Wilson was constantly pushing for the United States to take its place on the world stage, act as a leader for the world.  In his address to Congress requesting a declaration of war, Wilson said, "It is a terrible thing to lead this great peaceful people into war.  Our goal is… only the vindication of right… the world must be made safe for democracy."  At that point, the United States pretty much ended its isolationism, even if all the politicians said it still existed.  The U.S. was lending money to all the World War I belligerents, and had a hand in just about every corner of the world.  When the American markets crashed in 1929, they set off a ripple through the rest of their trading partners.  America's international involvement has its roots in World War I.

      There is a case that can be made and I agree with that WW I led into the factors that made WW II as it turned out at least in Europe possible. Japan is aanother story but do you think the Japanese would have risked a war with the European Powers and the United States if Germany and Italy were at peace? It was the length of WW I that might have been far shorter if the Americans stayed neutral.

      Offline The Overlord

      Re: Hatred for the United States
      « Reply #23 on: March 01, 2009, 03:53:11 PM »
         .. You mean kick out American citizens because of the religion they follow because of ther actions of a single nation? I'm sorry, but if they do that, I hope you are mistaken as one and kicked out to. That is just plain WRONG. Punishing American Jews because of Israel's mistakes is wrong and misguided. [/list]

        I'm talking about the wealthy elitist Jew segment that Washington panders to and is that is keeping us in the bullshit over there. You guys know exactly what I'm talking about, they’re entrenched in politics here, and putting up with these SOB's is what's wrong.


        For the record, you plugged Jewish religion into the debate not me.

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        Re: Hatred for the United States
        « Reply #24 on: March 01, 2009, 03:56:26 PM »
          This one is going to continue to be a problem so long as we don't change on it. Israel will not continue to exist without US support; or they will exist but only because they had to gas and nuke millions of Arabs who tried to overrun Israel when we pulled out cold turkey on them.

          Being as the US essentially calls the shots on this, we need to ACT like we do and tell Israel there are limits to our generosity. There WILL be a free Palestinian state; the situation will not defuse until this happens.

          I'm going to sound dangerously close to Nazi saying this, but Israel is a twisted irony. They have become the very thing that they sought to bring down 60-odd years ago. I say either they play ball with us or we kick all the fracking Jews out of US borders. No, I'm not taking that back either.
        I am not contesting that Palestinian's deserves their own state.  However, where in history did it become solely their right.  I ask this question, because so many are willing to bash Israel.  Pointing out that they are thieves.  They had robbed the Palestine people.   Yet the Jerusalem was a Jewish city long before.  The states or Kingdoms of Judea and Israel were before any mention of it being Palestine.  And that word or name.  It is nothing more then the Greek designation of the area.

        Palestinians,  Arabs, this culture has been given a free pass.  It is bullshit what is happening in Sudan.  The genocide going on supported by the government.   It is bullshit how they treat the Kurds.   It is bullshit their stance towards the Jewish people.   It is bullshit how they treat their women.  

        An the United States being the most hated.  So what, a 100 years ago, Great Britain was looked upon as the hated meddling affair.   And finally.   It was not  American tanks that rolled over Europe.  They happened to be Germans.   It was not American old guard, it was French old guard that marched through the battle fields of Europe.   It was not American crusaders that invaded the Holy land.   It was not American legions that carved out an empire in the known world.    No were not perfect, but our idea is what is.  It represents the pinnacle of a free society.  [/list]