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Author Topic: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?  (Read 5705 times)

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Offline VekseidTopic starter

A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« on: February 07, 2009, 10:11:17 PM »
I'd only make one, mind - I know you come in all sorts of varieties, but roughly 98% of the human population is biologically one single gender and I get the impression that those who mentally identify with a different gender are similarly outnumbered.

If there's support for the idea we'd need to come up with a name, but I think we've got enough now that it could be another viable community here.

This would probably occur after the upgrade as it has superior permission handling.

Offline Mnemaxa

Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2009, 02:54:23 AM »
One of the more interesting books of science fiction I read uses a gender neutral title for males and females.  It might work well for that - Ser.  Lord, Lady, Ser.  Knight, Dame, Gentry.

Offline Greenthorn

Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2009, 08:50:41 AM »
Vek, I think that is a wonderful idea!   ;D




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Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2009, 10:18:51 AM »
I think that idea would go over rather well. There are a number of people out there that can't choose which they are, don't believe they are either, or believe that they are both.

Giving them their own option for a title would be a nice idea.

Offline Transgirlenstein

Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2009, 03:04:21 PM »
Would they get their own forum then like the Lord and Ladies forums?





Offline Greenthorn

Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2009, 03:09:41 PM »
Would they get their own forum then like the Lord and Ladies forums?



If they do, then that would mean they don't get Lords/Ladies access?...at least that is what would be "fair". 

Offline Haibane

Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2009, 03:11:14 PM »
One of the more interesting books of science fiction I read uses a gender neutral title for males and females.  It might work well for that - Ser.  Lord, Lady, Ser.  Knight, Dame, Gentry.
Of those 'Gentry' is the only one without gender connotations. I think it should mesh with the Elliquiy naming conventions of Lord/Lady/Knight/Dame and such.

It also depends on whether the person feels they really belong more in one gender than another (that is, despite their biological gender their sexual/mental gender is 'more' female or 'more' male) or whether they do not feel strongly to be any gender.

Some ideas.

How about:

'Noble'? This tag can sit on a new neutral coloured field for a person who considers themselves neither male or female (or equally both) and could sit on a green field for those who feel themselves more male and on a red field for those who consider themselves more female.

How about using the internationally accepted symbol for a transgender/intersex person which is the female circle/downward + and the male circle/upwards arrow combined? See here - particularly the fifth symbol down (transgender) and the eighth (gender symbols).

Also here.

If they do, then that would mean they don't get Lords/Ladies access?...at least that is what would be "fair". 
Hmmm... this is a very good point. And it opens up a whole new discussion. Would a person with a male body but a female gender be given access to the Ladies only forum, or the Lords only? Or neither and we create a new one?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 03:13:04 PM by Haibane »

Offline Transgirlenstein

Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2009, 03:17:14 PM »
Personally, I am a bit on the fence about this.  Part of me things it a good idea, part of me doesn't.

I do like Haibane's idea the best though and I would think they should get access to their own forum then.

Offline Greenthorn

Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2009, 03:17:32 PM »
One thing I would like to point out about having a totally different forum just for TGs...

As far as I am aware, there is a small group of those who are honestly gender neutral/TG..or whatever (sorry I don't know all of the terms and labels)...do they really want to feel...-isolated- with just the small group by losing access to Lords/Ladies?

Now that I think about it, having another forum for TGs (etc) might almost be...segregative.

Offline Haibane

Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2009, 03:18:12 PM »
I do like Haibane's idea the best though and I would think they should get access to their own forum then.
Please, it wasn't my idea. Others suggested it, I just threw in my 2c.

Offline VekseidTopic starter

Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2009, 03:21:05 PM »
One thing I would like to point out about having a totally different forum just for TGs...

As far as I am aware, there is a small group of those who are honestly gender neutral/TG..or whatever (sorry I don't know all of the terms and labels)...do they really want to feel...-isolated- with just the small group by losing access to Lords/Ladies?

Now that I think about it, having another forum for TGs (etc) might almost be...segregative.

Well, that's really why I've waited so long - we seem to be getting a new Intersex applicant every few days, I think there's enough where they could have their own area.

Offline Ket

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Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2009, 03:21:26 PM »
Not to rain on anyone's parade...

But my question is, with a tag specifically stating that someone is trans, whether it be in mind or body, would this possibly cause issues with people who aren't comfortable with it?  I know the majority of us on E are very open when it comes to sexualities and genders, however, as we've seen in the past, there are some who aren't.  

Offline Haibane

Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2009, 03:23:23 PM »
Now that I think about it, having another forum for TGs (etc) might almost be...segregative.
*nods sagely* It's a sensitive subject - and a slippery slope. Isn't asking for a separate identifyer (graphical and/or name) segregative anyway?

I do think that which forum is accessible is going to be the key here. Perhaps one of the two main genders plus a new TG forum wherein TG-relevant issues can be discussed?

I think we need some input here from the members this will directly concern as well.

Offline Mnemaxa

Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2009, 03:27:07 PM »
Well, the main advantage of having their own forum is that it would, like the other two forums, be about things their genders would be concerned with and a very good source of support and resources just as the other two are for their genders, regardless of how exactly they define that gender.   Likewise, they shouldn't have access to both lords and ladies, as it subverts the entire idea behind those two boards - as safe place for people to discuss gender based issues without qualm or concern for their safety or respect.

I don't think that last came out right, but I hope you get the idea.

That's part of my reasoning for using a non-gender biased title like Gentry, Noble, Ser....it imparts a title of respect without defining exactly a role they themselves are trying or seek to define for themselves.  It's a wide swath of many shades of grey, and even male and female aren't exactly black and white.

Offline Transgirlenstein

Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2009, 03:27:46 PM »
Thus why I am on the fence.  Part of me things its not a bad idea, the other part feels it is segregative.

Offline VekseidTopic starter

Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2009, 03:30:49 PM »
Thus why I am on the fence.  Part of me things its not a bad idea, the other part feels it is segregative.

Well it's largely a voluntary thing. People who truly identify as male or female are not mandated to hop into the new group.

Offline Mnemaxa

Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2009, 03:31:20 PM »
Having two sections, one for male, and one for female is also segregative.  anyone who things otherwise is not looking at the sheer existence of the fact that the two sexes have seperate boards.  This is not a bad thing, mind you.  If they want to define themselves as a lord, or a lady, then they've set themselves as who they feel they are already, and it shouldn't be an issue.  The third board is for those who have actual issues with their gender distinction, if they choose to use it.  And that's the key word: CHOICE.  They have the option of choosing any one board....just as we right now have the choice of two boards, Lords and Ladies.  

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Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2009, 03:32:42 PM »
Perhaps something more subtle - giving the Lord or Lady title that is desired, but using the intersex or a purple symbol for the gender tag.  Most of the time, I barely even notice the gender symbol, which would make it less likely to be a cause for focus.

Offline Cthulhu

Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2009, 04:58:55 PM »
It would be nice to have a forum for gender issues... But at the same time, for such a small group? It might get boring. The gender play meet up thread has about 20 posts, so that would be really small.

I don't know about the ladies-gents forums, though. Should one be excluded from both for being bigender (having a female and a male side)? I understand that some people might be uncomfortable with gender issues - Trieste told me there were some complaints about my thread to ask and change this. So in that aspect I do support a seperate board... But then again. The group might just be tiny.

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Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2009, 05:15:08 PM »
It would be nice to have a forum for gender issues... But at the same time, for such a small group? It might get boring. The gender play meet up thread has about 20 posts, so that would be really small.

I don't know about the ladies-gents forums, though. Should one be excluded from both for being bigender (having a female and a male side)? I understand that some people might be uncomfortable with gender issues - Trieste told me there were some complaints about my thread to ask and change this. So in that aspect I do support a seperate board... But then again. The group might just be tiny.

I'm not sure you can use the gender-play meetup thread to determine whether a bigender forum would be useful.  There also might be people who a) consider themselves bigender, but don't care to get involved in gender-play, or b) consider themselves firmly one gender or the other and do enjoy gender-play. 

Here's a question, though - Does a forum take up a set amount of resources in addition to whatever amount of traffic it has?  If not, then there's nothing that would be hurt by having it as a sanctuary for those things that bigendered people might not feel comfortable airing in public, the same way that Ladies Only (and I presume Lords Only) is a sanctuary for the single-gendered to do 'locker-room talk'.

Personally, I'm not uncomfortable with the current set-up, but I understand that some people might be, on all the multiple sides of the fence.  Maybe it's anonymous poll time?

Offline Haibane

Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2009, 05:19:47 PM »
Cthulhu, I don't think the size of the group matters. I think giving you a place that is welcoming and private and where you can discuss issues important to yourselves without fear of being interrupted/ridiculed/watched, is.

Whether some of you also have access to one of the other gender specific forums is something to debate but I do not think it is fair to allow access to both, for the reasons we have separate forums in the first place.

A number of E members have had their gender tag switched already. This alone makes me a tiny bit uncomfortable that people with previous access to one forum now have access to the other. Feel free to berate me as narrowminded if you wish, though I don't intend anything negative by it, but I thought it wise to show my true feelings here, even if my discomfort is very very slight.

Offline Trieste

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Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2009, 05:45:31 PM »
I fit rather neatly into the binomial system of genders. I have a vagina, and I rather enjoy being a girl. That being said, I feel like doing such a thing puts far too much focus on gender. The only reason I personally use the lord and lady tags is to determine whether someone prefers being referred to as sir or ma'am.

My sexuality is not tied to gender, though, at all. So I'm not sure how this would help those of you who care about it more ... I mean, and it's not like there are super secret things going on in the gender-specific forum. We could all talk about makeup and sex toys and naked men and porn stars and our perfect date out in the open forum if we wanted to... it's just that it's another forum where things feel like they might 'belong'.

Offline Scott

Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2009, 06:18:29 PM »

Now that I think about it, having another forum for TGs (etc) might almost be...segregative.

I don't see it being any more segrative than a Lord no being able to access the Ladies thread, or Vice versa, it would just be a third thread. As long as there is no bouncing back and forth between the new thread and their physically or mentally chosen gender. just pick one of the three and stick with it. 

Offline Karma

Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2009, 06:21:08 PM »
I think the farthest I'd be willing to go with this is adding a board for issues, and making no further "identifiers" if you will. I'm also mildly uneasy about the gender tag switching, but not enough to have any real objection to it. I would participate readily in the intersex board, or whatever it would be called, but I am not interested in being cut off from the Ladies board...

Offline Transgirlenstein

Re: A separate Intersex/transgender/genderqueer/etc tag?
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2009, 06:28:03 PM »
The thing is, I agree in that a third gender tag shouldn't needed.  An intersex board would be great and very much appreciated but as Karma said, Some people do not want to be cut off from the Lord or Ladies boards.