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Author Topic: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, started, still accepting)  (Read 475 times)

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Offline ZincStandardTopic starter



Something is wrong with the world and I don't know what it is.

It was better once, of course it was.  In the golden age of legend, when there was enough to eat and enough hope, when the great empires carried the word of their gods across the land and people could lift their eyes and see beyond the horizon, beyond the day.  When children were born happy and grew up rich.

The oldest living still remember it.  A childhood time of terror, the great cities of empire thrashing, burning, falling.  Thousands of years of culture, the greatest achievements of civilization, lost in dust and smoke and hate.  Now that's not what we've got.  Now we've got this.  Strongholders stand against the screaming elements and all comers, keeping safe as many as they can.  Bonepickers wage a constant battle against
there's not enough and blood spills and everything dies.  Hocuses gather people around them, and are they protectors, saviors, visionaries, or just wishful thinkers?  The wolfsheads, the sword masters, and the children of battle carve out what they can and defend it with murder and blood.  Nightshades dare to remember beauty, or invent beauty anew, cup it in their hands and whisper come and see, and don't worry now about what it will cost you.

And there's something else.  Close your eyes and grasp out, open the doors in your soul, and you'll feel it, there in the spaces where you can't see, all around.  The Maelstrom.  The thing that killed the gods, or the thing that rushed in to fill the void the gods left when they died, or the unsheathed sword of the gods' judgment when they turned their backs on us.  The terrible desperation and hate pressing in at the edge of all perception, it is the world now.

And you, who are you? This is what we've
got, yes. What are you going to make of it?



So Fallen Empires is a dark fantasy reskin of Apocalypse World, which to me is like putting the cherry on top of another cherry ;D  I've played the system before and loved it, and I want to run a game of it here.

Ideally, I'd like to find players who are familiar with Powered by the Apocalypse games--they can be kind of hard to learn, less because of the actual rules and more because they run on some assumptions that are very different from most RPGs.  However, what's more important to me is that you're a skilled and enthusiastic writer who wants to participate, so I'm happy to help people learn if they want this to be their first experience with the system.  All the necessary materials for Fallen Empires can be found here...

http://apocalypse-world.com/AW2ndEdFallenEmpiresPreview.pdf

I can't say too much about the setting right now, because it's supposed to be largely collaborative, and developed through play--for that reason, if you're going to join the game, I need you to be comfortable independently just throwing out ideas for the world as they come up, and trusting that the rest of the group will roll with them.  However, to give some general structure, I want this game to center around a particular stronghold or community, and the role the PCs play in its function and survival--typical Apocalypse World stuff.  While it's expected that everyone's characters will be at least cordial with one another to start with, this isn't necessarily a cooperative game, and it's entirely possible that conflict or outright PvP might arise.

This is not meant to be mainly a smut game.  That said, there's plenty of sexy stuff suggested by various player options (every playbook has a sex move, just to start with), and if people want to emphasize that with their characters and bring it into the game, I encourage it.  However, characters should be people, with more to them than sex, and capable of setting that stuff aside when necessary.  As we learn about the community and culture the characters belong to, we'll learn about their attitudes toward sex, which might be liberal, conservative, or whatever we decide, within practical bounds.

So, if you want to play, pick a playbook and submit with the following template (the character is purely an example).  No doubling up on playbooks if one is taken.  Images are optional if you prefer not to have one.  If you have any questions, please let me know.  Can't wait to see what you come up with!

Character sheet example/template
Introducing Hawk, a child of battle.

[Image if used]

Man, dark skin, plain clothing, striking face, frosty eyes, muscular body.

Cool +3, Hard 0, Hot +1, Sharp +1, Weird -1

History: [Leave blank until later]

Ice cold: when you fly at an NPC, roll+cool instead of +hard.  When you fly at another PC, roll+history instead.  When you make a battle move that calls for you to roll+hard, you can roll+cool instead.

Perfect instincts: when you’ve read a charged situation and you’re acting on the MC’s answers, take +2 to the roll instead of +1.

Child of battle special: if you and another character have sex, you annul their special move. Whatever it is, it doesn’t happen.

Gear: a distinctive 2-handed sword (deadly: on the field), a magical spell that strikes down your enemies with blades of darkness (thrown, area, ignores armor), distinctive chainmail of unusual metal (2 armor), 4 keep

Harm: O O O   O O O   O

Experience: O O O O O

Improvements: [Leave blank until later]
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 09:41:27 PM by ZincStandard »

Offline CeruleanSerenity

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2018, 10:57:05 PM »
I was pointed to this game... I don't know much about Apocalypse World at all, but I'm curious about it and interested in seeing how this game develops.

I'm not sure how much of this game's tone and setting are already planned (though I know they're open to collaborative development), but when thinking about a post-apocalyptic dark fantasy sort of setting, I had an idea for a character I might enjoy playing. I imagined her as part of a special caste or group that serves a sexual role, trained in the arts of pleasure and tattooed with a symbol in an aphrodisiac ink that enhances her libido and makes her purpose clear to all.

But... like I said, I don't know much about this system or how it's meant to be played. Maybe it's too early to be coming up with ideas, and I still need to learn how all this works.

Offline ZincStandardTopic starter

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2018, 11:04:42 PM »
Hi Cerulean!  (Is that the right abbreviation?)  Glad to see you take an interest.

So, about your character.  That concept could totally fit, and if you want to contribute the existence of such a caste as part of the central community's culture, that's totally fine by me.  However, in creating your character, I'd strongly advise you to choose your playbook first.  It's sort of like your class, except it has even more of an effect on who your character ends up being, since it suggests a lot of the fiction for them (rather than the way D&D does it, where, for example, the fighter class is just a bunch of mechanics that can be fluffed however you want, your playbook in AW/FE comes with a lot of its fluff built in).  Now, for the kind of character you're describing, I might recommend the nightshade--sort of like a bard, meant to represent an artist or performer (possibly of a sexual nature), very much a social character rather than a combative one.  Or, depending on the social role you want your character to have, she might be a hocus, a religious leader with their own dedicated following.  Generally, player characters in FE are meant to be powerful, exceptional people, so if you wanted to play someone like a slave, that part might not be the best fit.

Anyway, I'd recommend you pick a playbook and pick from the required options before you do anything else (note that when choosing gender, look, name, and so on, the listed options are just examples--you can come up with your own, and feel free to get a little more detailed with your look than just a list of single words).  Feel free to keep your concept in mind when picking from said options, though.

Offline CeruleanSerenity

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2018, 11:44:14 PM »
Hi Cerulean!  (Is that the right abbreviation?)
I don't think I have a right abbreviation... that's what most people use, though, and that's fine. (At least, I think that's what most people use. I... haven't really been keeping track...)

Nightshade is the playbook I had in mind for this character; I don't know a lot about the system, but when I was looking through the options, that one stood out to me as most fitting for the kind of character I wanted to play. So if you think that's a good fit too, I will go with that.

I didn't imagine my character as being a slave, exactly, so I think it's fine if she's exceptional. So if it's okay to elaborate more on what I was planning, with that in mind...

I see my character's type as a rare thing (I'll call them Sylvani for now, just for sake of a name - that can change if someone comes up with something better). Maybe ingredients to make the ink are rare and valuable, or maybe few people are suited for the role, but whatever the reason, Sylvani are few and valued. If they're seen as subservient, it's only because they're known to be possessed by an overwhelming lust, and common knowledge holds that they are always ready and willing to practice their arts.  Sylvani are an oasis of pleasure and sexual relief in a harsh world. The presence of a single Sylvani can hold a colony together, keeping its inhabitants loyal and content and tempting its enemies to compromise for just one more taste. But while they might seem like little more than fancy sex toys to a casual observer, Sylvani are highly skilled at what they do, and that unquenchable lust means they have desires of their own - and intense desires and a talent for getting what they want can be a dangerous combination.

Does that sound like an appropriate concept for a Nightshade in this game?

Offline ZincStandardTopic starter

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2018, 11:51:07 PM »
I like it!  Another teaching moment here, though--while that kind of fiction is excellent, I'd say it's the kind of thing that's better kept back initially, and revealed during the game as it comes up.  Think of it like a well-written fantasy TV show, where exposition is kept to a minimum; we aren't told much of anything about the world initially, and are left to piece it together from the characters talking about it organically, keeping in mind that they already know how everything works and won't need to explain it to one another (except for times when they do).  That holds as true for us players as it does for the characters--if you think this is your character's background, you don't have to ask me or anyone else for permission for it to exist, you can just say that it does as soon as it becomes relevant.  That's why it's important not to have too many preconceptions, though, because while you might have one set of ideas that you're waiting to bring in, everyone else has their own, and often, someone else will get to elaborate on something in their own way before you have the chance to touch it and make it like you wanted.  Which is part of the fun, because it means we're all constantly learning new and unexpected things about the world.

Anyway, again, I like everything you've come up with so far.  Whether it ends up becoming canon or not, I'd encourage you to keep it in mind as you create your nightshade.

Offline CeruleanSerenity

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2018, 12:03:06 AM »
I worried that might be too much detail at this stage... I'll keep that in mind, and try not to get my mind set on any details. It's not the way I'm used to doing things, but I'll learn (and it's certainly easier than planning a lot of detail in advance).

What should we submit for our characters at this stage? Just a character sheet like the example you posted?

Offline ZincStandardTopic starter

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2018, 12:06:26 AM »
Yeah, that, exactly.  Again, if you want to add an image and/or describe your character's look in a bit more detail, go right ahead.

Don't worry, you'll get the hang of it.  I know it's tricky at first--sure was for me.

Offline Cold Heritage

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2018, 12:19:13 AM »
I might throw in for a Mesmerast. Wish the Lumpster put the Faceless into this because that is my favourite playbook ever.

But! I have a somewhat more noble purpose. You may, or may not, be interested in what I believe is a somewhat updated version of Fallen Empires, available equally freely: http://apocalypse-world.com/AWFallenEmpires-playtestFeb2018.pdf

It's got some extra playbooks and rules tweaks, I think.

Offline ZincStandardTopic starter

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2018, 12:30:36 AM »
Huh, interesting!  Thanks for bringing that to my attention.  However, I'd feel more comfortable sticking to the edition I've played and am familiar with.  As for the extra playbooks, I'd be open to including the anointed if someone wants to play one; the necromancer, though, I feel kind of steps on the bonepicker's toes as the resident death magician, and the archwizard is...well, you know.

Anyway, I'd love to see you join with a mesmerast, if you feel so inclined :-)

Offline Cold Heritage

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2018, 12:34:31 AM »
Yeah, of course. Sorry, I just got a little excited at getting to share to PbtA goodness. Didn't mean it in an all caps command to use it instead.

Online Chanticleer

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2018, 02:01:25 AM »
AW Fallen Empires? Glee!

I haven't played AW2 previously, so I may need a bit of guidance on the places where it diverges from AW standard, but I've played AW standard quite a few times, as well as several other PbtAs.

Offline CeruleanSerenity

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2018, 12:21:26 PM »
Is there a certain style of image you would like us to use for our characters, Zinc? I wanted to include one with my sheet, but I'm not sure what to go for.

Offline ZincStandardTopic starter

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2018, 12:37:12 PM »
I don't want to make any hard rules about images, but personally, I tend to prefer artwork to photography for fantasy characters.  Given the game's tone, I might be hesitant about manga/anime-style art, but I know there's plenty of dark, weird stuff under that umbrella, so if you find something you think fits that isn't too cartoony, more power to you.

If you have your character ready except for an image, feel free to post the sheet and add the image later.  I usually only include images when the whole character was inspired by a particular one, but that's just me.

Edit: Some examples, just in case anyone wants to see more of the kind of stuff I personally had in mind.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide








« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 12:54:49 PM by ZincStandard »

Offline CeruleanSerenity

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2018, 01:51:03 PM »
My character sheet isn't quite ready, but I'm getting closer. I mainly need to choose gear and decide on appearance, and not being sure about an image is why I was hesitating on the latter... there's one I thought might work:

(NSFW) https://elliquiy.com/elluiki/images/6/6e/0d48c942f81e9c77ddcf7f599cd85b00.jpg

Not as realistic as the examples you posted, but I felt it might be appropriate for a highly seductive and sexual character in a dark fantasy setting... I thought I should post it here to get opinions on that, though. I can certainly find others.

Offline ZincStandardTopic starter

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2018, 02:07:39 PM »
Well, I've got no problem with it, although the lingerie might not be accurate.

Offline CeruleanSerenity

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2018, 02:26:17 PM »
If you're all right with it, I could use that image and just assume the clothing isn't exactly what she wears... I imagine she's likely to end up with different outfits at different times anyway, or nothing at all.

Also, I think I understand how advancement works, but why are some options below a line? Are they different from the others somehow?

Offline ZincStandardTopic starter

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2018, 02:46:41 PM »
Yeah, makes sense.  Oh, and I guess that's not explained in the PDF--the options below the line only unlock after you've already advanced 5 times.

Online Chanticleer

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2018, 03:09:28 PM »
I'm drifting back and forth between the Bonepicker, the Hocus, and the Strongholder.

It feels like we need a Strongholder, but so far we've only three (possibly?) players, and no one's shown interest so far in being the Strongholder.

I'm a little curious about the Bonepicker and the Still-room. I'm getting a very Frankenstein/Dr. Moreau vivisectionist vibe from that phrase
Quote
Bring your patients into it and you can contemplate, understand, and transform them like a mystic can contemplate and transform reality.


The Mystic has similar language but doesn't really talk about how, it just sets out a framework for the MC to assign costs/penalties to do 'the thing.'

Is there a better 'how' somewhere? Or is it really 'imagine whatever crazy madness you care to propagate and find out how much the MC is going to screw with you if you try it'?

Offline ZincStandardTopic starter

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2018, 03:28:47 PM »
It's basically the last thing, yeah ;D As for your choice of playbook, seriously, follow your heart.  We don't need a strongholder--if we don't have one, that just means it's up to me to play whoever's in charge of the place you all live (or the group you're all part of, if you don't have a permanent home).  If you want that power for yourself, then by all means, play a strongholder--or a wolfshead, and then everyone might be attached to your warband, maybe.  But no pressure at all.

For what it's worth, having played a bonepicker myself, I can attest that they're tons of fun.  I played mine as something in between a doctor, an undertaker, and an abhorsen, and he's still one of my all-time favorite characters.  But it's entirely your choice.

Online Chanticleer

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2018, 03:42:21 PM »
Okay, last question: what does 'deadly' mean in AW2? It doesn't seem to exist in the list of weapon tags (neither do infighting and brawling, but those are clearly ranges. I guess brawling is 'hand' and infighting is 'intimate'? But then what's 'hand-to-hand'? Does that just mean it can't ever be a projectile?).

Offline ZincStandardTopic starter

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2018, 04:36:23 PM »
Oh yeah, FE uses slightly different combat rules than AW, since guns aren't a thing.  They're explained in the PDF under Harm & Healing, but basically, weapons are either at range, thrown, or within reach (if it's not tagged otherwise, it's within reach); within reach is further divided into on the field, hand-to-hand, infighting, brawling, and intimate, from greatest distance to least.  All within reach weapons can be brought to bear at any sub-range, but will be tagged as deadly for specific ones.  When fighting in melee, the person with the longest deadly reach on their weapon gets to fight at that reach, unless the terrain forces you closer.  A normal weapon attack is 2-harm, a deadly attack is 3-harm, and an unarmed attack is 1-harm (minus armor in all cases).  If a weapon is tagged deadly in some other circumstance, like deadly: ambush, it means exactly what it sounds like.

Does that clear it up?  The doc has more details.

Online Chanticleer

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2018, 04:48:30 PM »
Oh yeah, FE uses slightly different combat rules than AW, since guns aren't a thing.  They're explained in the PDF under Harm & Healing, but basically, weapons are either at range, thrown, or within reach (if it's not tagged otherwise, it's within reach); within reach is further divided into on the field, hand-to-hand, infighting, brawling, and intimate, from greatest distance to least.  All within reach weapons can be brought to bear at any sub-range, but will be tagged as deadly for specific ones.  When fighting in melee, the person with the longest deadly reach on their weapon gets to fight at that reach, unless the terrain forces you closer.  A normal weapon attack is 2-harm, a deadly attack is 3-harm, and an unarmed attack is 1-harm (minus armor in all cases).  If a weapon is tagged deadly in some other circumstance, like deadly: ambush, it means exactly what it sounds like.

Does that clear it up?  The doc has more details.

I guess I should've read further down in the pdf instead of trying to find tags in my AW2 book. :)

Sorry about that. Thanks for explaining it.

The idea that Infighting is a longer range than Brawling feels a bit bizarre though. The reach thing is also a little odd, as it's hard to use a polearm or a sword on someone who's wrestling with you, while a dagger or brass knuckles or cestus becomes far more useful. Eh, it's a game! They're all broken somewhere.

Offline CeruleanSerenity

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2018, 04:49:21 PM »
Okay... I think I did this all right. Let me know if there's anything I need to change.

Character Sheet
Introducing Leah, a nightshade.

https://elliquiy.com/elluiki/images/6/6e/0d48c942f81e9c77ddcf7f599cd85b00.jpg

Woman, light skin, minimal clothing, beautiful face, arresting eyes, quick hands, erotic body.

Cool +1, Hard -1, Hot +3, Sharp +1, Weird 0

History:

Breathtaking: you get +1 hot (to hot+3).

Artful & gracious: when you perform your chosen art—any act of expression or culture—or when you put your chosen art before an audience, roll+hot. On a 10+, spend 3. On a 7-9, spend 1. Spend 1 to name an NPC member of your audience and choose one:
This person must meet me.
This person must have my services.
This person loves me.
This person must give me a gift.
This person admires my patron.

On a miss, you gain no benefit, but suffer no harm or lost opportunity. You simply perform very well

Nightshade special: if you and another character have sex, choose 1:
• You take +1 forward and so do they.
• You take +1 forward, but they take -1 forward.
• They must give you a gift worth at least 1 keep.
• You get +1 history with them; at your choice, they get +1 history with you.
• You can hypnotize them as though you’d rolled a 10+, even if you haven’t chosen to get the move.


Gear:
A dagger with a worked-gold hilt and golden blade inlay (deadly: infighting).
A magical spell that turns your enemy’s blade aside at the last instant (1 armor).
A magical spell that, cast in a high and exposed place, calls to you the spirit of its wild wind. Ask the spirit three questions about what it has touched.
A polished silver mirror, backed with cavorting figures in inlaid gold.
A silken sash, from which to hang pouches and belongings without obscuring the body.
2 keep

Harm: O O O   O O O   O

Experience: O O O O O

Improvements:

Offline ZincStandardTopic starter

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2018, 05:55:08 PM »
The idea that Infighting is a longer range than Brawling feels a bit bizarre though. The reach thing is also a little odd, as it's hard to use a polearm or a sword on someone who's wrestling with you, while a dagger or brass knuckles or cestus becomes far more useful. Eh, it's a game! They're all broken somewhere.

Yeah, it's far from a perfect simulation ::)  Though to be fair, a dagger or caestus is more effective at grappling range than a spear, by the rules--it's just that, if you want to get that far inside a spear-user's reach, you'll have to a) be fighting in a closet, or b) take specific action to close the distance and make sure they can't withdraw again, which means making moves to that effect.

Okay... I think I did this all right. Let me know if there's anything I need to change.

Character Sheet
Introducing Leah, a nightshade.

https://elliquiy.com/elluiki/images/6/6e/0d48c942f81e9c77ddcf7f599cd85b00.jpg

Woman, light skin, minimal clothing, beautiful face, arresting eyes, quick hands, erotic body.

Cool +1, Hard -1, Hot +3, Sharp +1, Weird 0

History:

Breathtaking: you get +1 hot (to hot+3).

Artful & gracious: when you perform your chosen art—any act of expression or culture—or when you put your chosen art before an audience, roll+hot. On a 10+, spend 3. On a 7-9, spend 1. Spend 1 to name an NPC member of your audience and choose one:
This person must meet me.
This person must have my services.
This person loves me.
This person must give me a gift.
This person admires my patron.

On a miss, you gain no benefit, but suffer no harm or lost opportunity. You simply perform very well

Nightshade special: if you and another character have sex, choose 1:
• You take +1 forward and so do they.
• You take +1 forward, but they take -1 forward.
• They must give you a gift worth at least 1 keep.
• You get +1 history with them; at your choice, they get +1 history with you.
• You can hypnotize them as though you’d rolled a 10+, even if you haven’t chosen to get the move.


Gear:
A dagger with a worked-gold hilt and golden blade inlay (deadly: infighting).
A magical spell that turns your enemy’s blade aside at the last instant (1 armor).
A magical spell that, cast in a high and exposed place, calls to you the spirit of its wild wind. Ask the spirit three questions about what it has touched.
A polished silver mirror, backed with cavorting figures in inlaid gold.
A silken sash, from which to hang pouches and belongings without obscuring the body.
2 keep

Harm: O O O   O O O   O

Experience: O O O O O

Improvements:

Looks great!  You should be good to go for now, unless there's anything else you need from me :-)

Assuming all three interested parties do end up submitting characters, we can play the game with that many; however, it'd be nice to get one more.  No one really seems to be doing a combat-focused character yet, so that's something I'd be happy to see from a fourth applicant if they feel so inclined, but no pressure.  If we don't have one, it'll just be a more social, political game.

Online Chanticleer

Re: Fallen Empires (dark fantasy Apocalypse World, sexual content welcome)
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2018, 08:01:26 PM »
Yeah, it's far from a perfect simulation ::)  Though to be fair, a dagger or caestus is more effective at grappling range than a spear, by the rules--it's just that, if you want to get that far inside a spear-user's reach, you'll have to a) be fighting in a closet, or b) take specific action to close the distance and make sure they can't withdraw again, which means making moves to that effect.

Ah, I see!

Assuming all three interested parties do end up submitting characters, we can play the game with that many; however, it'd be nice to get one more.  No one really seems to be doing a combat-focused character yet, so that's something I'd be happy to see from a fourth applicant if they feel so inclined, but no pressure.  If we don't have one, it'll just be a more social, political game.

Which is another reason I'm contemplating the Strongholder. The Strongholder may not be personally the most combative, but he has a gang and his management of it is less of a balancing act than the Chopper-equivalent's version.